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  • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    Could you elaborate on who the "fringe" groups are?

    JW's for one.

    I saw it well stated by another member: Christianity is basically divided into three branches: Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, and despite their differences they all believe in the Trinity. All Christians believe in the Trinity. Therefore any little group outside of that whole is by definition a fringe group.

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    • Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post


      JW's for one.

      I saw it well stated by another member: Christianity is basically divided into three branches: Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, and despite their differences they all believe in the Trinity. All Christians believe in the Trinity. Therefore any little group outside of that whole is by definition a fringe group.
      JW's are not Christians. They are a cult. They do not believe that Jesus is God. They believe He is another lesser god.
      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

      Jim Elliot

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        Is the Trinity biblical?
        Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?
        No!

        And.

        No!
        "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

        "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

        Pro scripture = Protestant

        Comment


        • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post

          Are you anti Trinity ?
          I am!
          "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

          "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

          Pro scripture = Protestant

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CherubRam View Post

            In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical.

            In the only codices which would be even likely to preserve an older reading, namely the Sinaitic Syriac and the oldest Latin Manuscript, the pages are GONE which contained the end of Matthew 28. Frederick Cornwallis Conybeare (1856 - 9 January 1924) Professor of Theology at the University of Oxford.

            Here is the oldest recorded document of Matthew 28:19.

            "The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
            Eusebius of Caesarea. 265 ? AD.– 337 ? AD.


            Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. Eusebius informs us of Yahshua's actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19.

            Quote: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all...

            And again Eusebius for example, in Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read:

            "But the rest of the disciples, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went to all nations to preach the good news, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."


            And again, in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read:

            "What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name?
            Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke these words to his followers, and fulfilled it by that event, saying to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."

            There is not a single occurrence of the disciples baptizing anyone using the Trinitarian formula. All of the scripture in the New Testament shows that people were baptized into the name of Jesus, even after Pentecost.

            And when people in church leadership received the Holy Spirit, it was without the Trinitarian formula as in Acts 8:17.
            Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

            Trinity related

            Acts 20:28 Holman bible foot note. Other mss read church of the Lord; other mss read church of the Lord and God

            Acts 20:28 NIV foot note. Many manuscripts: “of the Lord” 28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.(a) Be shepherds of the church of God,(b) which he bought with his own blood.

            1 Timothy 3:16 Holman bible foot note. Other mss read God
            1 Timothy 3:16 NIV foot note. Some manuscripts God

            1 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
            He(a) appeared in a body,(b)
            was vindicated by the Spirit,
            was seen by angels,
            was preached among the nations,
            was believed on in the world,
            was taken up in glory.
            Footnotes:
            a. 1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
            b. 1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the flesh


            1 John 3:16 In this we have known the charity of God, because he hath laid down his life for us:...

            The words (of God) are not in the original text of 1 John 3:16, but have been added.

            NIV 1 John 5
            6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

            NIV Footnotes:
            a.1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

            KJV 1 John 5:6
            This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. 7And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

            1 John 5:7 implicitly states that all THREE are ONE.

            This is the only verse in the Bible that explicitly states that all three persons are one.
            Unfortunately, it was added to that verse.
            No earlier version includes that last phrase about them being one.

            The first 2 additions of Erasmus' master Greek text did not have this.
            Stunica (a Catholic authority) demanded that he include the phrase.
            Erasmus told Stunica that if he could provide one Greek manuscript with that phrase, he would include it.
            But no Greek manuscripts up to that time had it.
            Only Latin manuscripts had it. So Stunica had a Greek manuscript made up from the Latin and forced Erasmus to include it.

            In 1514, before Erasmus had even begun to edit his text, but its publication was delayed until 1522, until permission of Pope Leo X had finally been obtained for it.

            "The supreme Pontiff Leo X, Our Most Holy Father in Christ and Lord, desiring to favour this undertaking, sent from the apostolic library."

            This claim seems to have been accepted by all at that time.
            In view of its inclusion in the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate (1592), in 1897 the Holy Office in Rome, a high ecclesiastical congregation, made an authoritative pronouncement, approved and confirmed by Pope Leo XIII, that it is not safe to deny that this verse is an authentic part of St. John's Epistle.
            Good job!
            "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

            "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

            Pro scripture = Protestant

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

              Good job!
              If Matthew 28:19 is to be used, the WHOLE verse needs to be quoted


              ​​​​​​ Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)

              19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

              That says in the NAME of whom? The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost, the three in one God. So the post is shakey to say the least.
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                If Matthew 28:19 is to be used, the WHOLE verse needs to be quoted


                ​​​​​​ Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)

                19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

                That says in the NAME of whom? The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost, the three in one God. So the post is shakey to say the least.
                Evidently, you did not read the post I replied to
                "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                Pro scripture = Protestant

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                  If Matthew 28:19 is to be used, the WHOLE verse needs to be quoted


                  ​​​​​​ Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)

                  19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

                  That says in the NAME of whom? The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost, the three in one God. So the post is shakey to say the least.
                  Try post 25079
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment



                  • ​​​​​​ re: "Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

                    The name of the Father is thought by some to be Yahweh, and the name of the Son is thought by some to be Yahshua, but I don't think that I've heard of a name for the Holy Ghost.


                    BTW, the statistic's column shows 25,043 responses but only 472 views. What am I missing?
                    Last edited by rstrats; March 31, 2020, 04:16 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rstrats View Post
                      ​​​​​​ re: "Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

                      The name of the Father is thought by some to be Yahweh, and the name of the Son is thought by some to be Yahshua, but I don't think that I've heard of a name for the Holy Ghost.


                      BTW, the statistic's column shows 25,043 responses but only 472 views. What am I missing?
                      Good Question
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment

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