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  • Originally posted by lifeisgood View Post

    Gist of the video: Trinity is an OT concept.
    That might count as a headline but not a gist. It's hardly more than you offered when you posted the link and said it was a Jewish concept.

    Can you post at least one of the arguments made in the video? If it's a descent argument, perhaps people will be motivated to actually watch the video. Think of it as analogous to a teaser or trailer. Try to do something to pique people's interest enough that they'll be willing to invest the time to watch a two hour long video.
    sigpic
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

    Comment


    • John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      2 The same was in the beginning with God.

      3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

      The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

      Source: cantos catolicos

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tuoraciondeldia View Post
        John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

        2 The same was in the beginning with God.

        3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

        The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

        Source: cantos catolicos
        Amen!
        sigpic
        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tuoraciondeldia View Post
          John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

          2 The same was in the beginning with God.

          3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

          The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

          Source: cantos catolicos
          The bible actually expresses Jesus is the agent through which the one God the Father created all things, the Father is the ultimate source of creation, Jesus admits that he himself lives because of the Father proving that he was not always eternal and gained his life from the creator the Father, "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me" (John 6:57).

          Speaking of the Father it states "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the world.(Hebrews 1:1, 2). 1 Cor 8:6 goes on to express that all things are through Jesus but from the Father, the Father is the source of creation and creator, Jesus is merely the agent the Father used to create all things, the same way an architect uses a builder to build a structure the Father, the architect, used Jesus, the builder, to create the world, "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:6).
          If you cant beat them join them

          Comment



          • Originally posted by NWL View Post

            The bible actually expresses Jesus is the agent through which the one God the Father created all things, the Father is the ultimate source of creation, Jesus admits that he himself lives because of the Father proving that he was not always eternal and gained his life from the creator the Father, "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me" (John 6:57).
            Jesus had no beginning, you Satan-serving Arian.

            Here is the verse you are defiling:

            "As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by (διὰ) the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by (διὰ) me." (John 6:57)

            You fail dismally, again, here, because nowhere in this verse do we read that Jesus had a beginning, or that the Father created Jesus, or that Jesus' existence is less than entirely coextensive with that of the Father. Jesus says, "I live (present tense, not past tense!!) by the Father", and not "I began to live by the Father", nor "I was created by the Father", nor "I came to exist because of the Father".

            As usual, all you are doing is trying to impose your anti-Christ, extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism onto the Bible.

            Originally posted by NWL View Post
            Speaking of the Father it states "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the world.(Hebrews 1:1, 2). 1 Cor 8:6 goes on to express that all things are through Jesus but from the Father, the Father is the source of creation and creator, Jesus is merely the agent the Father used to create all things, the same way an architect uses a builder to build a structure the Father, the architect, used Jesus, the builder, to create the world, "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:6).
            Notice how your brethren--the lying, hypocritical Satanists who created your "New World Translation" perversion of the Bible--chose to put the word, "through" (which you've underscored, above), for the Greek, διὰ, in 1 Corinthians 8:6 (i.e., "Jesus Christ, through whom all things are", rather than, "Jesus Christ, because of whom all things are"), despite the fact that the same liars chose to put the phrase, "because of", for the same Greek word, in John 6:57 (i.e., "I live because of the Father", rather than, "I live through the Father").

            If you weren't the hypocrite that you are, then you'd not be trying to hide--as does Satan, through your Russellite programmers/handlers at the Watchtower Society-- the fact that "there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, BECAUSE OF whom all things are".


            What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

            What fact do you have to support your claim that what you call "fact" is fact?

            Comment


            • Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
              Unto us a Son is given;
              And the government will be upon His shoulder.
              And His name will be called
              Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
              Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

              Notice both "Son" and "Everlasting Father" as well as both "Mighty God" and "Prince of Peace".

              Just as Jesus Himself explicitly states "I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30)


              When one's entire theological construct is destroyed by a single verse of scripture and yet you cling to your doctrine anyway, you might be a cult member.



              sigpic
              "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Clete View Post
                Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
                Unto us a Son is given;
                And the government will be upon His shoulder.
                And His name will be called
                Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
                Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

                Notice both "Son" and "Everlasting Father" as well as both "Mighty God" and "Prince of Peace".

                Just as Jesus Himself explicitly states "I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30)


                When one's entire theological construct is destroyed by a single verse of scripture and yet you cling to your doctrine anyway, you might be a cult member.
                Arrogance really is your downfall Clete, let me show you how you're wrong once again, and watch how you will once again run away claiming you won't converse with anyone who you believe to be part of a cult as your excuse.

                Remember when I showed you the below image stating "I keep a picture of the below in my bible as I often have to teach Trinitarians what they themselves are meant to believe about the trinity", you are about to be a prime example of this feat it action, as you do not understand what you yourself are meant to believe, others will look and see your lack of ability to defend your beliefs.

                Click image for larger version  Name:	images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1HQaACPI6poNo7SimyqUivcSL0ppOHf40LqGTaymOEITwEEk5.png Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	2738870

                The Trinity doctrine teaches that the Father is NOT the Son and the Son NOT the Father as the above image shows, however, Isaiah 9:6 states the Son, namely Jesus, is the "eternal Father", the verse contradicts the trinity doctrine! You have no clue as to why Jesus is referred to as the "eternal Father" as you do not know the truth. You use John 10:30 to try and show Jesus and the Father being one as if this somehow explains why Jesus is specifically called the "Father" despite him not being the Father. Jesus and the Father being one has NOTHING to do with them being part of any trinity, how do we know this, because Jesus asked that his followers be one with him and the Father the same way he and the Father were one with each other, so they called all be one, "that they [my followers] may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us" (John 17:21). How else do we know John 10:30 is not in relation to any trinity, because the trinity teaches that three are one, and not that two are one, which would be the case if the statement of "I and the Father are one" was in relation to the trinity.

                You once asked me the question of "What does the doctrine of the Trinity teach", if I answered you and said "there is one God, the Father and Jesus the Son" you would have laughed your *** off as I would be leaving out the third person of the trinity, yet that is what you claim Jesus answered when he said "I and the Father are one", the argument is not consistent. Jesus and the Father being once meant one in unity and not one in identity, hence why he asked the Father that his followers be one the same way they are one, any claim contrary to this would be unwittingly implying Christ-followers are also God since they are also one with him.

                Jesus is a mighty God, no Jehovah's witness denies this, we simply deny that he is the "one God" as the "one God" in the bible is clearly described as being the Father and Father alone (see 1 Cor 8:6). The context and language of Isaiah 9:6 denies that he possessed the epithets that were ascribed to him, it states "For a child has been born to us...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace", I cannot say about the Queen of England, "her name will be called the Queen of England" as that would imply she is not currently the Queen of England, the correct wording would be "her name is the Queen of England". Likewise, if the Son is God eternal then he would have already been the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace, as seen by the language of Isaiah 9:6 this is not the case.

                Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best, the same way it would be foolish and stupid of me to claim your "entire theological construct is destroyed" by what I've said above, it is stupid and arrogant of you to think you have bested an entire theological construct with your poor reasoning and comprehending skill.

                If you give a reply to one of my posts -be it directly or indirectly- do not be so naive to think I will not respond in kind. Let's wait and see how you mock, scoff and show your amazement as you excuse yourself for not having the ability to give a reply once again.
                Last edited by NWL; March 10, 2020, 11:15 AM.
                If you cant beat them join them

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NWL View Post

                  Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best
                  Like your theology. Anyway, is it just that there's nobody down at the Kingdom Hall to talk some God-lite Jesus or sleepy time hell with?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NWL View Post

                    Arrogance really is your downfall Clete, let me show you how you're wrong once again, and watch how you will once again run away claiming you won't converse with anyone who you believe to be part of a cult as your excuse.

                    Remember when I showed you the below image stating "I keep a picture of the below in my bible as I often have to teach Trinitarians what they themselves are meant to believe about the trinity", you are about to be a prime example of this feat it action, as you do not understand what you yourself are meant to believe, others will look and see your lack of ability to defend your beliefs.

                    Click image for larger version Name:	images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1HQaACPI6poNo7SimyqUivcSL0ppOHf40LqGTaymOEITwEEk5.png Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	2738870

                    The Trinity doctrine teaches that the Father is NOT the Son and the Son NOT the Father as the above image shows, however, Isaiah 9:6 states the Son, namely Jesus, is the "eternal Father", the verse contradicts the trinity doctrine! You have no clue as to why Jesus is referred to as the "eternal Father" as you do not know the truth. You use John 10:30 to try and show Jesus and the Father being one as if this somehow explains why Jesus is specifically called the "Father" despite him not being the Father. Jesus and the Father being one has NOTHING to do with them being part of any trinity, how do we know this, because Jesus asked that his followers be one with him and the Father the same way he and the Father were one with each other, so they called all be one, "that they [my followers] may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us" (John 17:21). How else do we know John 10:30 is not in relation to any trinity, because the trinity teaches that three are one, and not that two are one, which would be the case if the statement of "I and the Father are one" was in relation to the trinity.

                    You once asked me the question of "What does the doctrine of the Trinity teach", if I answered you and said "there is one God, the Father and Jesus the Son" you would have laughed you *** off as I would be leaving out the third person of the trinity, yet that is what you claim Jesus answered when he said "I and the Father are one", the argument is not consistent. Jesus and the Father being once meant one in unity and not one in identity, hence why he asked the Father that his followers be one the same way they are one, any claim contrary to this would be unwittingly implying Christ-followers are also God since they are also one with him.

                    Jesus is a mighty God, no Jehovah's witness denies this, we simply deny that he is the "one God" as the "one God" in the bible is clearly described as being the Father and Father alone (see 1 Cor 8:6). The context and language of Isaiah 9:6 denies that he possessed the epithets that were ascribed to him, it states "For a child has been born to us...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace", I cannot say about the Queen of England, "her name will be called the Queen of England" as that would imply she is not currently the Queen of England, the correct wording would be "her name is the Queen of England". Likewise, if the Son is God eternal then he would have already been the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace, as seen by the language of Isaiah 9:6 this is not the case.

                    Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best, the same way it would be foolish and stupid of me to claim your "entire theological construct is destroyed" by what I've said above, it is stupid and arrogant of you to think you have bested an entire theological construct with your poor reasoning and comprehending skill.

                    If you give a reply to one of my posts -be it directly or indirectly- do not be so naive to think I will not respond in kind. Let's wait and see how you mock, scoff and show your amazement as you excuse yourself for not having the ability to give a reply once again.
                    Jesus is God. Get over it.
                    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                    Jim Elliot

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WonderfulLordJesus View Post

                      Like your theology. Anyway, is it just that there's nobody down at the Kingdom Hall to talk some God-lite Jesus or sleepy time hell with?
                      There is a reason why I'm able to make such a statement, I have clearly demonstrated to Clete and others how is reasoning is mediocre. Your statement, however, which is childish as it seems to be an emotional response, is empty as you've nowhere demonstrated what you've claimed. People need to grow up.
                      If you cant beat them join them

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                        Jesus is God. Get over it.
                        I agree with you, he is God, he's simply not the "one God" of the bible, namely the Father. What's the point in coming to a forum that houses a number of people with differing understanding of the scriptures, creating a thread in which you yourself encourage, "Is the Trinity biblical? Is the Trinity taught in the Bible? Forgetting any type of denominationalism, is the Trinity taught in the Bible?" (post 2,3 on this thread), all said by you, and yet when others give a reply you state "Jesus is God. Get over it", the irony.
                        If you cant beat them join them

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NWL View Post

                          Arrogance really is your downfall Clete, let me show you how you're wrong once again, and watch how you will once again run away claiming you won't converse with anyone who you believe to be part of a cult as your excuse.

                          Remember when I showed you the below image stating "I keep a picture of the below in my bible as I often have to teach Trinitarians what they themselves are meant to believe about the trinity", you are about to be a prime example of this feat it action, as you do not understand what you yourself are meant to believe, others will look and see your lack of ability to defend your beliefs.

                          Click image for larger version Name:	images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1HQaACPI6poNo7SimyqUivcSL0ppOHf40LqGTaymOEITwEEk5.png Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	2738870

                          The Trinity doctrine teaches that the Father is NOT the Son and the Son NOT the Father as the above image shows, however, Isaiah 9:6 states the Son, namely Jesus, is the "eternal Father", the verse contradicts the trinity doctrine! You have no clue as to why Jesus is referred to as the "eternal Father" as you do not know the truth. You use John 10:30 to try and show Jesus and the Father being one as if this somehow explains why Jesus is specifically called the "Father" despite him not being the Father. Jesus and the Father being one has NOTHING to do with them being part of any trinity, how do we know this, because Jesus asked that his followers be one with him and the Father the same way he and the Father were one with each other, so they called all be one, "that they [my followers] may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us" (John 17:21). How else do we know John 10:30 is not in relation to any trinity, because the trinity teaches that three are one, and not that two are one, which would be the case if the statement of "I and the Father are one" was in relation to the trinity.

                          You once asked me the question of "What does the doctrine of the Trinity teach", if I answered you and said "there is one God, the Father and Jesus the Son" you would have laughed your *** off as I would be leaving out the third person of the trinity, yet that is what you claim Jesus answered when he said "I and the Father are one", the argument is not consistent. Jesus and the Father being once meant one in unity and not one in identity, hence why he asked the Father that his followers be one the same way they are one, any claim contrary to this would be unwittingly implying Christ-followers are also God since they are also one with him.

                          Jesus is a mighty God, no Jehovah's witness denies this, we simply deny that he is the "one God" as the "one God" in the bible is clearly described as being the Father and Father alone (see 1 Cor 8:6). The context and language of Isaiah 9:6 denies that he possessed the epithets that were ascribed to him, it states "For a child has been born to us...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace", I cannot say about the Queen of England, "her name will be called the Queen of England" as that would imply she is not currently the Queen of England, the correct wording would be "her name is the Queen of England". Likewise, if the Son is God eternal then he would have already been the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace, as seen by the language of Isaiah 9:6 this is not the case.

                          Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best, the same way it would be foolish and stupid of me to claim your "entire theological construct is destroyed" by what I've said above, it is stupid and arrogant of you to think you have bested an entire theological construct with your poor reasoning and comprehending skill.

                          If you give a reply to one of my posts -be it directly or indirectly- do not be so naive to think I will not respond in kind. Let's wait and see how you mock, scoff and show your amazement as you excuse yourself for not having the ability to give a reply once again.
                          You make the error of thinking that I care what you think.
                          sigpic
                          "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NWL View Post

                            There is a reason why I'm able to make such a statement, I have clearly demonstrated to Clete and others how is reasoning is mediocre. Your statement, however, which is childish as it seems to be an emotional response, is empty as you've nowhere demonstrated what you've claimed. People need to grow up.
                            Did somebody ask you why you do anything? I assure you, I didn't. I already know bears dump in the woods, too. And emotional? LOL! You actually think you have any such power over me? If hell is sleep, and if I were to read more than a fragment of the inane and endless blather false prophets like you write, correction, disciples of false prophets like you write, as you have approximately zero creativity of your own, Charles Russell and the Watchtower Society in, garbage out, like clockwork, in any case, if I paid you half a mind, I'd be soul sleeping in hell, now. You and all your ilk just bore the hades out of me and make a landfill of message boards. And you know why? Because nobody really wants to hear your crap, in the real world. It has to be so desperate for you cult guys that you can't even discuss it among yourselves, that you need to be trolling fundamentalist Christians, but so very blind that you are never, ever going to pervert a child of the Spirit of Christ, with your silly, stupid and evil doctrines that contradict the clear word of God. In fact, is that duh or what? Have you noticed nobody is buying what you're selling? (Of course not...) I do feel a little sorry for you, but that's about all she wrote. Honestly. Emotional? Yawn.

                            As to growing up, no thanks to that, also, as the Lord Jesus, that is the great I am of the burning bush, the Word of God, Almighty God and Jehovah of the Old Testament, the eternal God, Jesus Christ, that came from eternity and down to man, that we not all be utter lying fools, as too many are yet content to be, said thus:

                            Matthew 18:2-3 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

                            Matthew 19:13-14 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


                            That's got to trump being a full grown devil, a proponent of horrible lies, a prophet of the doctrines of deceitful men and women, which are the doctrines of demons and hell. Just sayin'.
                            Last edited by WonderfulLordJesus; March 10, 2020, 12:13 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                              Get over it.
                              Another optimist...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Clete View Post

                                You make the error of thinking that I care what you think.
                                Really. I'm just beside myself, too.

                                Comment

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