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  • Originally posted by NWL View Post
    Since Angels are referred to as God/gods, demons are referred to as Gods/gods (Exodus 12:12)
    What Hebrew word, in Exodus 12:12, is rendered "Angels", in your New World Translation?

    What Hebrew word, in Exodus 12:12, is rendered "demons", in your New World Translation?

    For I will pass through the land of Egypt on this night and strike every firstborn in the land of Egypt, from man to beast; and I will execute judgment on all the gods of Egypt.
    What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

    What fact do you have to support your claim that what you call "fact" is fact?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
      Is this Theos, too?
      Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
      Indeed, this passage has some people applying the term Theos to themselves, and shows how wrong and shameful it is.

      Once again, reserving the term for deity.





      Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
      What of this verse? This was after the Lord had been to the cross. Satan is said to have some power.

      Acts 26:18
      18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

      Acts 26.15 – 18

      And I said, Who are you, Lord? And He said, I am Jesus whom you persecute; but rise up and stand on your feet, for it is for this reason I appeared to you, to appoint you a servant and a witness both of what you saw, and in what I shall appear to you, having delivered you from the people and the gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance among those being sanctified by faith in Me.

      The comparison made here is 'darkness to light'....'power of Satan to God'.

      Clearly, darkness refers to the power of Satan, and Light refers to God.

      The 'power' of Satan refers to his demons, and not himself, otherwise the text would have come out and said plainly, just Satan.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
        As you know, I no longer think that there is any necessity to think that the referent of Paul's "the god of this world" is Satan, and, of course, I can't agree that it is YHWH, either. What caught my eye, and sparked a change in my thinking, was a glance at the 96th Psalm. In particular, v. 4 & 5:



        I suspect there may be something of an interesting parallelism between the Apostle's phrase, "the god of this world" and the Psalmist's phrase, "all the gods of the nations".

        Would it really be to wreak total havoc upon Scripture, were we to consider certain other Scripture phrases as more or less interchangeable with Paul's phrase, "the god of this world", in 2 Corinthians 4:4?



        Would we be egregiously misunderstanding Paul, were we to think, for instance, that the Psalmist's phrase, "all the gods of the nations", might also make pretty good sense in v. 4, as a sort of stand-in for Paul's phrase, "the god of this world"?



        Seeing as how the Psalmist has told us that all the gods of the nations are idols, we may, then, find the following to be even a bit more to the point:



        According to Psalms 115 KJV, the idols* of the heathen (the nations**) "have mouths, but they speak not", and "eyes have they, but they see not". Now, a little further, it says that they that make idols, and they that trust in idols, are like unto their idols. And, it seems clear, from reading Psalm 115, that one way in which the idol-makers and idol-trusters are like unto their idols, is that they have eyes, but see not. In other words, they're blind. And, I doubt anybody will complain if I decline to bother, here, with writing an explanation of how that eye-blindness is spiritual, and not literally eye-blindness.

        Another phrase I, personally, could consider to be somewhat similar in import to Paul's phrase, "the god of this world", is Paul's phrase from 2 Corinthians 10:5, "imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God". So, then, we might consider thinking of this phrase in the same context as his phrase, "the god of this world":



        Perhaps we won't be far wrong if we thought of it even more simply:



        These are just a few thoughts I've had over the last few days. I've taken note of several various passages throughout the Bible which, for one reason or another, seem to me of potential service in further trying to flesh out the (admittedly somewhat (as of yet) vague)idea I've tried to set forth, here. I'd be interested to hear what fellow Christians might think about the matter.
        I can see that you have been giving this topic much thought...excellent!

        Indeed, the NT often times refers to a topic already covered in the OT, and, locating such OT passages can, often times do, clarify the NT intent.

        Scripture seems to indicate that idols lack all senses.

        Deut 4.28 And there you shall serve other gods, the work of man's hands, wood and stone, which cannot see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

        If we apply this 'blinding' of the senses to humans, then I would think that it would be an all or nothing, coverage, as idols have no sensing capabilities whatsoever.

        This fact, coupled with the plurality of 'gods' vs. the singularity used in the NT, still sways me to it referring to other than human beings...

        Regarding to NT pointing to the OT, this passage in which John quotes Isaiah, as referring to Jesus, as the Arm of God (well established, btw!), has the most credence going for it, imo...



        John 12.35 - 41

        Then Jesus said to them, Yet a little while the Light is with you. Walk while you have the Light, that darkness not overtake you. And the one walking in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe into the Light, that you may become sons of Light. Jesus spoke these things, and going away He was hidden from them. But though He had done so many miraculous signs before them, they did not believe into Him, so that the Word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he said, "Lord, who has believed our report? And the arm of the Lord, to whom was it revealed?" Isa. 53:1 Because of this they could not believe, because Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them." Isa. 6:10 Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory, and spoke about Him.


        Clearly, in the OT, the Arm of Yahweh (The Second Person of The Trinity), is recorded as having the same exact blinding authority as Theos in 2 Cor 4.4...

        This appears to be a slam dunk....what do you think?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
          Indeed, this passage has some people applying the term Theos to themselves, and shows how wrong and shameful it is.

          Once again, reserving the term for deity.

          Acts 26.15 – 18

          And I said, Who are you, Lord? And He said, I am Jesus whom you persecute; but rise up and stand on your feet, for it is for this reason I appeared to you, to appoint you a servant and a witness both of what you saw, and in what I shall appear to you, having delivered you from the people and the gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance among those being sanctified by faith in Me.

          The comparison made here is 'darkness to light'....'power of Satan to God'.

          Clearly, darkness refers to the power of Satan, and Light refers to God.

          The 'power' of Satan refers to his demons, and not himself, otherwise the text would have come out and said plainly, just Satan.
          I'm not happy with the way you so easily separate satan from his followers....other fallen angels would be my opinion. I don't think we see evidence of that being true.

          Darkness is the absence of light, so no demons need to be involved at all in that.

          If you were to say the god of this world was the world, itself, with all it's corruption, I'd say you were closer to the mark. That would be the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. That would be akin to the love of money being the root of all evil.
          1 John 2:15-17
          15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

          But, back to the verse in question..How can it possibly be reconciled to say that Jesus Christ as the God of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not....lest the light of HIS OWN glorious gospel should shine unto them? That sounds like a total depravity claim....where man cannot come to the light on his own.
          2 Corinthians 4:4
          4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
            I can see that you have been giving this topic much thought...excellent!

            Indeed, the NT often times refers to a topic already covered in the OT, and, locating such OT passages can, often times do, clarify the NT intent.

            Scripture seems to indicate that idols lack all senses.

            Deut 4.28 And there you shall serve other gods, the work of man's hands, wood and stone, which cannot see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

            If we apply this 'blinding' of the senses to humans, then I would think that it would be an all or nothing, coverage, as idols have no sensing capabilities whatsoever.

            This fact, coupled with the plurality of 'gods' vs. the singularity used in the NT, still sways me to it referring to other than human beings...

            Regarding to NT pointing to the OT, this passage in which John quotes Isaiah, as referring to Jesus, as the Arm of God (well established, btw!), has the most credence going for it, imo...



            John 12.35 - 41

            Then Jesus said to them, Yet a little while the Light is with you. Walk while you have the Light, that darkness not overtake you. And the one walking in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe into the Light, that you may become sons of Light. Jesus spoke these things, and going away He was hidden from them. But though He had done so many miraculous signs before them, they did not believe into Him, so that the Word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he said, "Lord, who has believed our report? And the arm of the Lord, to whom was it revealed?" Isa. 53:1 Because of this they could not believe, because Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them." Isa. 6:10 Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory, and spoke about Him.


            Clearly, in the OT, the Arm of Yahweh (The Second Person of The Trinity), is recorded as having the same exact blinding authority as Theos in 2 Cor 4.4...

            This appears to be a slam dunk....what do you think?
            It is very convincing. The fact that the word is Theos there, and you're positive about that, right?

            It reminds me of the parables, which were given so they would not see.
            Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


            I guess the question should be, why are some people blind to the Gospel message? Why can't they hear? I have a some ideas. First, they reject Jesus Christ as our Lord God come in the flesh, and are therefore unable to hear the Glorious Gospel of His Grace. Or, second, they love the darkness more than the light, which is basically the same thing I suppose.

            If they reject the TRUE Light, He blinds them to the Gospel.

            The final thought is man's inordinate pride.
            James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
              I'm not happy with the way you so easily separate satan from his followers....other fallen angels would be my opinion. I don't think we see evidence of that being true.

              Darkness is the absence of light, so no demons need to be involved at all in that.

              If you were to say the god of this world was the world, itself, with all it's corruption, I'd say you were closer to the mark. That would be the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. That would be akin to the love of money being the root of all evil.
              1 John 2:15-17
              15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

              But, back to the verse in question..How can it possibly be reconciled to say that Jesus Christ as the God of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not....lest the light of HIS OWN glorious gospel should shine unto them? That sounds like a total depravity claim....where man cannot come to the light on his own.
              2 Corinthians 4:4
              4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

              Where does scripture ever say that man can come to God on his own...?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                It is very convincing.
                Thanks!




                Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                The fact that the word is Theos there, and you're positive about that, right?
                Yes.



                Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                It reminds me of the parables, which were given so they would not see.
                Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


                I guess the question should be, why are some people blind to the Gospel message? Why can't they hear? I have a some ideas. First, they reject Jesus Christ as our Lord God come in the flesh, and are therefore unable to hear the Glorious Gospel of His Grace. Or, second, they love the darkness more than the light, which is basically the same thing I suppose.

                If they reject the TRUE Light, He blinds them to the Gospel.

                The final thought is man's inordinate pride.
                James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

                Scripture states that God does the things HE does for His own good pleasure.

                If we are His creation, then the best that we can do is not to devote excess energies into understanding why He does what He does - rather, learn about what He does, lest, we, ourselves fall into the category that we don't like...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                  Here are some of the questions that you have, thus far, stonewalled against:


                  1. WHOSE LORD would you say God the Father is?
                  Is God the Father the Apostle Paul's Lord? Yes or No?
                  Is God the Father YOUR LORD? Yes or No?
                  Where, in Scripture, does Jesus refer to, or address God the Father as "MY LORD"?


                  Why can't you answer them, N(ew)W(orld)L(iar)?
                  Loool, are you seriously accusing me of being unable to answer questions when I could provide a long list of questions that you outright refuse to answer, you are the definition of hypocrite my friend.

                  I answered your questions 1,2 and 3 above in my previous posts when I stated that the Father is the Sovereign Lord, look up the word Sovereign in a dictionary.

                  It's amusing that you refuse to call God the Father "my Lord". Why? Because you are a God-hater: you hate God the Father, you hate God the Son, and you hate God the Holy Spirit.

                  Thomas called Jesus Christ "my Lord AND my God". Why do you refuse to call Jesus Christ "my Lord AND my God"? Because you despise God the Son.

                  And, why do you refuse to call God the Father "my Lord AND my God"?
                  Because you despise God the Father.
                  The Father is my Lord and Thomas Lord, the nation of Israel had many Kings over them, this did not negate YHWH being the overall King. Likewise, the Father is my Sovereign Lord, this does not negate the fact that the Father, who is sovereign Lord has set up another person to act as Lord over us. We were made for Jesus, not the Father, thus it only makes sense that he is out Lord, this once again does not negate the Father being Sovereign Lord.

                  Questions you've stonewalled agaisnt:
                  • Show me a verse that states/expresses either Jesus or the HS are YHWH or the One God?
                  • Would you deny the below scriptures as referring to Satan as they do not mention him by name too?
                    (John 14:30) "..[Jesus said] I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me.."
                    (Ephesians 2:2) "..in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.."
                    (1 John 5:19) "..We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.."
                  • Is glorifying Jesus by bending the knee to him "to the glory of God the Father" as Phil 2:11 says?
                    (Phil 2:10-11) "..that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend... and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."
                  • Who is "Abraham's seed" through, the ones "heirs with reference to a promise" as mentioned in Gal 3:29?
                    Abraham's seed through Isaac - "..For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s seed; rather, “What will be called your seed will be through Isaac.” (Romans 9:7, 8)
                  • Is the word trinity in the bible, if not, do you believe in the trinity? Have you ever used the word trinity before? If you have then why are you using a word not found in the bible?
                  • Since Jesus stated "no one come to the father except through me", if we want approach the Father in anything who do we need to direct actions/thoughts through according to John 14:6?
                  If you cant beat them join them

                  Comment


                  • [QUOTE=NWL]who is 2 Cor 4:4 referring to if not Satan
                    Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                    Why do you assume that, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, by the phrase "the god of this world", Paul is referring to a person?
                    Where have I assumed? I'm literally asking you what YOU believe and your accusing me of assuming, just answer the question.

                    Again, who is Paul referring to in 2 Cor 4:4 when stating "ho theos" if not Satan?

                    Why do you assume that, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, by the phrase "the god of this world", Paul is referring to a person?
                    If you're asking of my personal views of the text I'm not assuming anything. I've already shown you why I believe it to be Satan, it is of no surprise that you ask me a question to which I have already made my position clear (see my recent post #24957 which was the post this post of your was a reply to).

                    (2 Corinthians 11:14) "..And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.."

                    (2 Thessalonians 2:9) "..But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders.."

                    (2 Corinthians 11:3) "..But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.."


                    Above are Paul's writings, we already know from the apostle John that he and the other apostles understood the world was in control by Satan, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19, see also John 14:30). Paul made it clear that he understood Satan to be a deceiver and trickster, someone who fools people into believing lies. Since we already know Satan had all authority of earth in his possession (see Luke 4:6) and was seen and understood as the ruler of the world it only makes sense that he is the "god" of the world that he rules over, even if his godship of the earth is temporary.

                    I assume nothing.
                    If you cant beat them join them

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NWL
                      I readily deny the HS is the "one God", I also deny Jesus is called the "one God" or either are YHWH, you however claim this is what the bible teaches. Therefore show me a verse that states/expresses they are either of those ones?
                      Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                      Notice, N(ew)W(orld)L(iar), that you are forced to stonewall against the questions I just asked you:
                      I didn't, you simply cannot read and understand what I am writing. Also why have you refused to answer yet another question and simply accused me of "stonewalling". Please deal with the question I asked, if you don't I can only assume you are "stonewalling".

                      Again, I readily deny the HS is the "one God", I also deny Jesus is called the "one God" or either are YHWH, you however claim this is what the bible teaches. Therefore show me a verse that states/expresses they are either of those ones?

                      Which of the following two mutually-contradictory propositions is the true one, and which is the false one?

                      The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is a HOLY Spirit.
                      The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is an UNHOLY Spirit.


                      Which proposition is the TRUE one? 1 or 2?
                      Which proposition is the FALSE one? 1 or 2?


                      Hmmm. Just why, oh why, can't you answer these?

                      John 4:24 teaches that the Holy Spirit is YHWH.
                      Romans 8:11 teaches that the Holy Spirit is YHWH.

                      I just showed you two verses that teach that the Holy Spirit is YHWH.
                      Neither of your answers are correct. Also, you not once showed me verses that expresses the HS is YHWH, where in the said verses did it express to the HS as being YHWH, please show me.

                      Also, your argument of semantics of using John 4:24 is extremely deceitful and destroys the context of John. The text along with its context;

                      (John 4:23, 24) "..Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth..”

                      As we can see by the context the Father is the one who is being spoken of, he is the God mentioned in John 4:24. Thus, when you say is the 'God' in John 4:42 a Holy spirit or Un-holy spirit you ignore that it is the Father being spoken of as the God in v24.

                      The "spirit" mentioned in John 4:24 is speaking about bodily composition, God is not flesh but rather is a spirit being, as Angels and demons are too. The verse is saying "God is a Spirit" not "God is the Holy spirit", hence why many translations have the wording "God is a spirit" in John 4:24.

                      Angels are called "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7) "he [God] says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits", since they are Holy does this make them holy spirits? Your entire argument of semantics where you try and force the word "holy" onto the word Spirit in John 4:24 is poor.

                      Romans 8:11 proves nothing in regards to what you said, where does the verse express that the Spirit was YHWH?

                      Now, hypocrite, YOU just try to show ME a verse that teaches that the Holy Spirit is NOT YHWH. You'll have as much fun with THAT as you will in your foredoomed, pathetic attempt at trying to do damage control after you deny that John 4:24 and Romans 8:11 teach that the Holy Spirit is YHWH.
                      And show me a verse that states YHWH is NOT a Giant Spaghetti monster!? Arguments of silence are stupid, stop using them, they don't make your arguments any stronger they only make you look silly.
                      If you cant beat them join them

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NWL
                        Since Angels are referred to as God/gods, demons are referred to as Gods/gods (Exodus 12:12)
                        Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                        What Hebrew word, in Exodus 12:12, is rendered "Angels", in your New World Translation?
                        You speak and ask a question about the NWT as if the answer somehow proves you right? The NWT states translates the Hebrew word "mê’ĕlōhîm" as "godlike ones".

                        What do you think the word mê’ĕlōhîm; should be translated as in Psalms 8:5?

                        Originally posted by 7djengo7
                        What Hebrew word, in Exodus 12:12, is rendered "demons", in your New World Translation?
                        It does not explicitly state "demons" in Exodus 12:12, but that is who the gods were in Egypt. Who do you think the "gods" were that YHWH was going to bring judgement against? Bear in mind the magic practicing priest who turned water into blood, and rods into snakes worshiped the Egyptian gods, where do you think the magic practicing priest who had these supernatural powers got their powers from?
                        If you cant beat them join them

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NWL View Post
                          Again, who is Paul referring to in 2 Cor 4:4 when stating "ho theos" if not Satan?
                          Jesus.

                          Same as he does in his other writings.

                          Simple.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NWL View Post
                            who is 2 Cor 4:4 referring to if not Satan

                            Where have I assumed? I'm literally asking you what YOU believe and your accusing me of assuming, just answer the question.

                            Again, who is Paul referring to in 2 Cor 4:4 when stating "ho theos" if not Satan?
                            Right there, once again, in saying "who is Paul referring to...?", you are ASSUMING that Paul is referring to a PERSON. Are you seriously THAT STUPID? So stupid that you cannot see that, in asking "WHO?", you are ASSUMING that Paul is referring to a PERSON? Unbelievable! Unlike you, I don't assume that, by his phrase, "the god of this world", Paul is referring to a PERSON.


                            Originally posted by NWL View Post
                            I assume nothing.
                            Says EVERY irrationalist fool, and enemy of logic. On the contrary, you JUST NOW assumed that you assume nothing. Of course, it's in the interest of your programmers/handlers at the Watchtower Society to have you imagining that you are, somehow, NEUTRAL in your controversy.
                            Last edited by 7djengo7; February 25, 2019, 11:02 PM.
                            What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

                            What fact do you have to support your claim that what you call "fact" is fact?

                            Comment


                            • I asked you:

                              Which of the following two mutually-contradictory propositions is the true one, and which is the false one?
                              1. The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is a HOLY Spirit.
                              2. The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is an UNHOLY Spirit.


                              Which proposition is the TRUE one? 1 or 2?
                              Which proposition is the FALSE one? 1 or 2?
                              Here is how you reacted to my question:

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Neither of your answers are correct.
                              Here, you, once again, show yourself to be an abject fool who despises logic. You can war against the law of the excluded middle all you want, but you will only be further showing your stupidity.

                              EITHER the referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is holy, OR the referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is unholy. There's no ducking that fact. Since Jesus, in John 4:24, states that the referent of the word 'God' is a Spirit, the question is unavoidable: IS that Spirit--which John tells us God is--HOLY, or NOT?

                              I affirm that that Spirit IS HOLY; why do you refuse to do so?

                              Saying "Neither of your answers are correct" is nothing but YOU STONEWALLING, as usual. And, of course, you stonewall, here, because you are desperately loath to NOT affirm that the Spirit that Jesus says YHWH is is HOLY.

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Also, you not once showed me verses that expresses the HS is YHWH, where in the said verses did it express to the HS as being YHWH, please show me.
                              Here, you not only deny that the referent of the word 'God', in John 4:24, is HOLY, but you are denying that the referent of the word 'God', in John 4:24, is YHWH!

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Also, your argument of semantics of using John 4:24 is extremely deceitful and destroys the context of John.
                              In a dispute about the MEANING of something, only really, really stupid people try to use the term "semantics" in a pejorative way against their opponents, like you are doing, here. See, semantics is ALL ABOUT MEANING! Since it is customary for YOU, as a matter of course, throughout all of your posts, to pile up all manner of meaningless nonsense, gibberish, gobbledygook, and mumbo-jumbo, why, OBVIOUSLY you are going to be sore about those who come along and embarrass you by asking you what (if anything) you mean! That's what semantics is: trying to find out the MEANINGS of things. Now, since you clearly specialize in writing meaningless tripe, while hoping that people will be bamboozled into thinking that the meaningless tripe you write is really meaningful, OF COURSE you are going to get hot under the collar when I ask you what (if anything) you mean. You're trying to hide the fact that you have NO HOPE of giving a rational account about the things you write.

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              As we can see by the context the Father is the one who is being spoken of, he is the God mentioned in John 4:24. Thus, when you say is the 'God' in John 4:42 a Holy spirit or Un-holy spirit you ignore that it is the Father being spoken of as the God in v24.
                              Do you not think that, in John 4:24, Jesus is talking about YHWH? And, what does Jesus say about YHWH? He says that YHWH is a Spirit. So, again, the question is: Is YHWH, about Whom Jesus is saying "God is a Spirit", HOLY? Yes or No? If YHWH is a Spirit, and if YHWH is Holy, then YHWH is a Holy Spirit. But YOU deny that YHWH is a Holy Spirit! Astounding.


                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              The "spirit" mentioned in John 4:24 is speaking about bodily composition
                              Did your Watchtower Society programmers/handlers teach you that? It's nowhere in the Holy Bible, of course. Perhaps you got it from your New World "Translation", your non-Bible.

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              The verse is saying "God is a Spirit" not "God is the Holy spirit", hence why many translations have the wording "God is a spirit" in John 4:24.
                              You agree that God is a Spirit, and you BLASPHEME God by denying that God is a HOLY Spirit. To DENY that God is a HOLY Spirit, while AFFIRMING that God is a Spirit, is to AFFIRM that God is an UNHOLY Spirit. That's what you are doing: you are claiming that God is an UNHOLY Spirit.

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Angels are called "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7) "he [God] says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits", since they are Holy does this make them holy spirits?
                              You really have to ask that question? YES! OF COURSE that makes them holy spirits! Anything that is both a spirit and holy is a holy spirit. Seriously, do you disagree?

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Your entire argument of semantics where you try and force the word "holy" onto the word Spirit in John 4:24 is poor.
                              Here, again, you are DENYING that YHWH is HOLY.

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              Romans 8:11 proves nothing in regards to what you said, where does the verse express that the Spirit was YHWH?
                              Where it says "the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead". Where else? Do you deny that YHWH is "him that raised up Jesus from the dead"? As we saw in John 4:24, YHWH is a Spirit. What OTHER Spirit would Paul be talking about if not the Spirit that YHWH is?

                              Originally posted by NWL View Post
                              And show me a verse that states YHWH is NOT a Giant Spaghetti monster!?
                              I do not know to what (if anything) you are referring by the phrase "a Giant Spaghetti monster". Are you referring to something by it? If so, to what?

                              Now, try answering the question I asked you:

                              SINCE the referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is--according to John 4:24--A SPIRIT, consider the two propositions:
                              1. The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is a HOLY Spirit.
                              2. The referent of the word 'God' in John 4:24 is an UNHOLY Spirit.


                              Which proposition is the TRUE one? 1 or 2?
                              Which proposition is the FALSE one? 1 or 2?
                              What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

                              What fact do you have to support your claim that what you call "fact" is fact?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NWL View Post
                                who is 2 Cor 4:4 referring to if not Satan

                                Where have I assumed? I'm literally asking you what YOU believe and your accusing me of assuming, just answer the question.

                                Again, who is Paul referring to in 2 Cor 4:4 when stating "ho theos" if not Satan?
                                Since, by saying "who is Paul referring to...?" you ASSUME that Paul, by his phrase, "the god of this world", MUST be referring to some person, then, to WHOM would you say Jesus is referring by the phrase, "the God of the dead", in Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:27, and Luke 20:38?
                                What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

                                What fact do you have to support your claim that what you call "fact" is fact?

                                Comment

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