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  • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
    Here's a good article on 1st John 5:7...

    https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8

    For those reading this thread, just compare the arguments and come to your own conclusions. The KJV ONLY proponents defend the verse as authentic, but there is plenty of reasonable evidence showing otherwise. Again, just compare the arguments of the KJV only folks, with most of biblical scholarship, and come to your own conclusions.
    Ah Wallace. I remember pulling that paper apart about a decade back before I knew that his dishonest essay was one of the darlings of the anti -1 John 5:7 crowd...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
      Ah Wallace. I remember pulling that paper apart about a decade back before I knew that his dishonest essay was one of the darlings of the anti -1 John 5:7 crowd...
      Care to to into detail? I'd love to hear what the anti-1 John 5:7 crowd is so scared of

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
        No, that's really bizarre. Don't do drugs. Or at least don't do any more drugs.
        I'm supposedly doing drugs, because I'm pointing out your flawed logic? Just because the bible, uses terms like "Spirit Of Christ", that in and of itself, does not prove Jesus is YHWH. If that were the case, then whenever the bible uses the term "Spirit Of Elijah", it is implying Elijah is YHWH. Just following your poor logic.

        More, why is the Wallace paper wrong, in your estimation? Let's examine your objection. Don't just say it's wrong and dishonest, without presenting evidence. Why is it dishonest and wrong?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
          Care to to into detail? I'd love to hear what the anti-1 John 5:7 crowd is so scared of
          I'll do an outline of it later tonight. When I wrote it I didn't know that he was a college graduate, I assumed he was a student of some sort.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
            I'm supposedly doing drugs, because I'm pointing out your flawed logic? Just because the bible, uses terms like "Spirit Of Christ", that in and of itself, does not prove Jesus is YHWH. If that were the case, then whenever the bible uses the term "Spirit Of Elijah", it is implying Elijah is YHWH. Just following your poor logic.

            More, why is the Wallace paper wrong, in your estimation? Let's examine your objection. Don't just say it's wrong and dishonest, without presenting evidence. Why is it dishonest and wrong?
            I was telling you to lay off the proverbial crack pipe, because of your objection that the "law of Moses" should be confused with equating Moses with God. And I have no idea how you launched onto that tangent, seeing that the subject was whether Christians are supposed to be subject to Christ's commandments. Your reply wasn't even a bit related to the subject, and it seemed to be responding to some sort of phantom dialogue that never existed.
            Last edited by Rosenritter; August 17, 2017, 05:57 PM. Reason: I apologize if the "drug" reference was offensive. It wasn't serious.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
              I was telling you to lay off the proverbial crack pipe, because of your objection that the "law of Moses" should be confused with equating Moses with God. And I have no idea how you launched onto that tangent, seeing that the subject was whether Christians are supposed to be subject to Christ's commandments. Your reply wasn't even a bit related to the subject, and it seemed to be responding to some sort of phantom dialogue that never existed.

              So you don't believe the term "Law of Christ", implies Christ's divinity? I believe you made that assertion, but if I'm wrong, then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I noticed that there were two issues you were discussing, one with the law and the other with the spirit. The spirit of Christ and the law of Christ. If you don't believe those terms imply or prove Christ's divinity, then that was my mistake.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lifeisgood View Post
                And your INability to see.
                At one time I thought as you do, but by 16 I was asking questions that Pastors could not answer. Your stuck in the muck of tradition friend. There is a lot more to learn in scripture than that which is taught in church. If your content with half truth I am glad for you, but I need more than that.


                Sent from my iPad using TOL
                Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                  I'm supposedly doing drugs, because I'm pointing out your flawed logic? Just because the bible, uses terms like "Spirit Of Christ", that in and of itself, does not prove Jesus is YHWH. If that were the case, then whenever the bible uses the term "Spirit Of Elijah", it is implying Elijah is YHWH. Just following your poor logic.

                  More, why is the Wallace paper wrong, in your estimation? Let's examine your objection. Don't just say it's wrong and dishonest, without presenting evidence. Why is it dishonest and wrong?
                  Welcome to TOL.

                  The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one and same Spirit.

                  The Bible says that there is only one Spirit.

                  So since the Father is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is Spirit, they must be the one and the same.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                    Such is obvious to anyone who has read the Bible. God did not want Adam and Eve to disobey. His will was stated in his commandment, "thou shalt not touch the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Adam and Eve averted his will. This story is repeated in various forms throughout its pages. When God gives a command, and his creation defies that command, they are going against his will.
                    God knew that Adam and Eve would sin. He allowed it. He made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus before He created the world.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                      I apologize that I couldn't find the relevant post to reply towards, but concerning whether Christians are under law, I thought this might help:

                      1Co 9:19-21 KJV
                      (19) For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
                      (20) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
                      (21) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


                      Within the same breath Paul is using the word law to mean two different things. The Jew is under law, but there are those without law. Yet those without law are still under law to God and Christ.

                      This also ties into the discussion of whether God is Christ, as Paul uses the two terms interchangeably here without batting an eye. The law to God is the same as the law to Christ.

                      h

                      From the above, everyone can see, that you're indeed making the argument, that because Paul uses the term "Law Of God" and "Law of Christ", interchangeably, he is implying Christ is God. Anyone can just read the above, and come to their own conclusions. My response is, no. Just because the term "law of God" and "law of Christ" is used, that doesn't in any way imply Christ's divinity, anymore than the term "Law of Moses", imply that Moses is YHWH.

                      You're also wrong about us not being under the law. We will always be under, subject to, bound by, YHWH's law. Not one jot or tittle, shall pass from the law, until all is fulfilled. All is not fulfilled yet, hence every disciple is subject to YHWH's law.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                        From the above, everyone can see, that you're indeed making the argument, that because Paul uses the term "Law Of God" and "Law of Christ", interchangeably, he is implying Christ is God. Anyone can just read the above, and come to their own conclusions. My response is, no. Just because the term "law of God" and "law of Christ" is used, that doesn't in any way imply Christ's divinity, anymore than the term "Law of Moses", imply that Moses is YHWH.

                        You're also wrong about us not being under the law. We will always be under, subject to, bound by, YHWH's law. Not one jot or tittle, shall pass from the law, until all is fulfilled. All is not fulfilled yet, hence every disciple is subject to YHWH's law.
                        Jesus fulfilled all.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Welcome to TOL.

                          The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one and same Spirit.

                          The Bible says that there is only one Spirit.

                          So since the Father is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is Spirit, they must be the one and the same.
                          The spirit or being of the Son is not that of His Father's. The Spirit of God, is just that. It's His manifest presence and power, workiing in the world.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                            I apologize that I couldn't find the relevant post to reply towards, but concerning whether Christians are under law, I thought this might help:

                            1Co 9:19-21 KJV
                            (19) For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
                            (20) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
                            (21) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


                            Within the same breath Paul is using the word law to mean two different things. The Jew is under law, but there are those without law. Yet those without law are still under law to God and Christ.

                            This also ties into the discussion of whether God is Christ, as Paul uses the two terms interchangeably here without batting an eye. The law to God is the same as the law to Christ.

                            So if Paul was under the law to God and Christ, what was that law? It certainly cannot be correct to say that we have no law. Christ did give us commandments:

                            Joh 13:34-35 KJV
                            (34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
                            (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

                            1Jn 2:1-11 KJV
                            (1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
                            (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
                            (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
                            (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
                            (5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
                            (6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
                            (7) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
                            (8) Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
                            (9) He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
                            (10) He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
                            (11) But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

                            1Jn 4:20-21 KJV
                            (20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
                            (21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

                            I apologize if this sounds like the proverbial beating the dead horse. I stumbled on this by accident and thought it might be helpful for clearing up a previous discussion. Law can mean more than one thing, it can refer to more than one law, we today are under the law of Christ.

                            Mat 5:43-48 KJV
                            (43) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
                            (44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
                            (45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
                            (46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
                            (47) And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
                            (48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
                            When Jesus came to earth, he taught the rules and guidelines for the new law, for the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant. Blood Covenant's must be followed exactly.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                              The spirit or being of the Son is not that of His Father's. The Spirit of God, is just that. It's His manifest presence and power, workiing in the world.
                              So then, are you contesting the scriptures that say there is one Spirit?

                              Do you agree that the Father is Spirit?

                              Do you agree that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Spirit?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                                Jesus fulfilled all.
                                All has not been fulfilled, and according to the Hebrew bible, the Torah will be kept by Israel, forever. Messiah came to redeem the world, and draw out His people from the nations. He is restoring Israel, and it is Israel, that will reign with Him, over the nations. Much has been fulfilled, but not all. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law. That is why the 12 apostles were zealous of the law and never taught any of Messiah's disciples not to keep it.

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