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  • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The entire Arian controversy began when Arius figured out that Jesus was begotten, which meant Jesus had a beginning and could not be as ETERNAL as His Father.


    The beginning referred to in this verse is when Jesus was baptized and began His ministry.
    You are biblically illiterate. You like Keypurr refuse to believe the truth of the bible. You are snared by the heresy of unitarianism. Jude 4 speaks of those like you.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      You could NOT be more WRONG.

      Jesus was NOT taken over by another Spirit or you think that Jesus had TWO spirits?

      Jesus IS the LORD FROM HEAVEN, just like the Bible that you reject says.
      1Co 15:47 KJV The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
      Get with it kepurr. You're a heathen idol worshiper. Get saved and believe in the LORD FROM HEAVEN.

      You have a lot to learn friend. Jesus did not come down from heaven. The true son is a spirit like his father. The EXPRESS image of God and he was given powers you can not imgine he has. Man did not create the Universe, the spirit of God did. God created all things through this spirit. The spirit son came down to dwell in the body prepared for him in Heb 10:5. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Your theology is shallow church theology, go deeper RD. The Lamb of God needed to be a man. Jesus was that man. But God sent his true son to live and speak through him.
      Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

      Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

      Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        Is the Trinity biblical?
        Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?
        No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.

        There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

        The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

        Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

        Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

        Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

        Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
          You could not be more WRONG!

          1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)

          1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—

          2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

          Jesus is ETERNAL! He was from the beginning. Get it right here or you will always be confused thinking that He may be created. He is not created, He is ETERNAL!
          great post BR !!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
            You just removed the context by leaving off Colossians 1:12-14
            My point concerned the firstborn of the dead. Keypurr believes Christ was created because scripture says he is the firstborn.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
              You could not be more WRONG!



              1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)



              1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—



              2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—



              Jesus is ETERNAL! He was from the beginning. Get it right here or you will always be confused thinking that He may be created. He is not created, He is ETERNAL!

              Jesus was BORN in Bethlehem, do we agree on that?

              1 John1-2 speaks of the spirit that created the world, it was in Jesus. The flesh son held the spirit son.

              Jesus was not eternal from the beginning for God is not a man, he is a spirit. Jesus is a man.

              If Jesus is the IMAGE of God he has to be a creation, you need a subject to be an image of it BR. Think about that my friend. The express image, not Jesus, was with God at the beginning. God used this image, his spirit son, to create everything. Only the Father is eternal for one the Father is the true God.
              Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

              Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

              Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                You are biblically illiterate. You like Keypurr refuse to believe the truth of the bible. You are snared by the heresy of unitarianism. Jude 4 speaks of those like you.

                Jude 4
                4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



                Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness refers to antinomianism that comes from believing in OSAS.
                I do not believe in OSAS, do you?

                Denying the only Lord God?
                God is my Lord, and I do not deny that.

                Denying our Lord Jesus Christ?
                Jesus Christ is also my Lord, and I do not deny that, either.

                God is the Lord of my Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written:

                1 Corinthians 11:3
                3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.



                Do you believe that the head of Christ is God?
                Or are you still denying that the head of Christ is God?
                Learn to read what is written.

                _____
                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                  You have a lot to learn friend. Jesus did not come down from heaven. The true son is a spirit like his father. The EXPRESS image of God and he was given powers you can not imgine he has. Man did not create the Universe, the spirit of God did. God created all things through this spirit. The spirit son came down to dwell in the body prepared for him in Heb 10:5. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Your theology is shallow church theology, go deeper RD. The Lamb of God needed to be a man. Jesus was that man. But God sent his true son to live and speak through him.
                  Then where was He before He became flesh friend

                  John 1:14 English Standard Version (ESV)

                  14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

                  You have yet to have been able to put the pieces of the bible together into a coherent whole. Start with this. What does it tell you?

                  Genesis 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)

                  1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

                  John 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)

                  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


                  1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)

                  1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                    My point concerned the firstborn of the dead. Keypurr believes Christ was created because scripture says he is the firstborn.

                    No, I believe he is a creation because he is the expressIMAGE of the Father. ALL IMAGES are creations. Also Col 1:15 say he is a creature. All things were made by God through this spiritual son on God. He is firstborn of all creation/creatures.
                    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                      Jude 4
                      4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



                      Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness refers to antinomianism that comes from believing in OSAS.
                      I do not believe in OSAS, do you?

                      Denying the only Lord God?
                      God is my Lord, and I do not deny that.

                      Denying our Lord Jesus Christ?
                      Jesus Christ is also my Lord, and I do not deny that, either.

                      God is the Lord of my Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written:

                      1 Corinthians 11:3
                      3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.



                      Do you believe that the head of Christ is God?
                      Or are you still denying that the head of Christ is God?
                      Christ is God. You do not believe 1 John 1:1-2 which clearly states the eternality of the Lord. You are a non-believer. You believe that there are untruths in the scriptures.
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
                        No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.

                        There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

                        The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

                        Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

                        Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

                        Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

                        Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.

                        Figure out who Jesus is first. Then let's talk about the Trinity.
                        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                        Jim Elliot

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                          Christ is God. . . . You believe that there are untruths in the scriptures.

                          1 Corinthians 11:3
                          3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.



                          So, why are you are claiming that this verse is an untruth?
                          Learn to read what is written.

                          _____
                          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                            Then where was He before He became flesh friend



                            John 1:14 English Standard Version (ESV)



                            14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.



                            You have yet to have been able to put the pieces of the bible together into a coherent whole. Start with this. What does it tell you?



                            Genesis 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)



                            1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.



                            John 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)



                            1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.





                            1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)



                            1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

                            The WORD is the spiritual son of God, the express image of God. God is not flesh, God is a spirit. You fail to understand that the express image of a spirit is another spirit, not a man. This spirit was sent to be in The body God prepared for him. God needed a perfect body to hold the godlike spirit to act and speak for him. The WORD was dwelling in the man Jesus, jesus was flesh, he did not need to become flesh. The spirit however needed to dwell in a body to become flesh. The Lamb of God is flesh.

                            Come out of the darkness brother, Christ is knocking on your door.
                            Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                            Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                            Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                              The beginning referred to in this verse is when Jesus was baptized and began His ministry.
                              Some PROOF of that would be wonderful.
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                                1 Corinthians 11:3
                                3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.



                                So, why are you are claiming that this verse is an untruth?
                                I'm not. You have claimed that 1 John 1:1-2 are. You do not believe in the eternality of Jesus.
                                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                                Jim Elliot

                                Comment

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