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Things that are different are not the same that includes God and Jesus Christ.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cruciform View Post
    Yes, the Father and Jesus are different Persons. Along with the Holy Spirit, however, they are also the same Being. That is the doctrine of the Trinity.
    Congratulations, you agree with scripture on one point.

    The two are different persons, thus they are not the same.

    God is spirit, God is God. John 4:24 God is spirit, He is invisible.

    Jesus Christ is flesh and blood with the spirit from God upon him, Jesus Christ is a human, the son of God. Jesus Christ was seen by thousands of people.

    Since they are different, they are not the same

    Only one point of difference is sufficient to prove that they are not the same

    God is not Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ is not God
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
      Delete
      Wise move!
      "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

      "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

      Pro scripture = Protestant

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        It is most likely the same thing He meant in this verse:

        John 17:22
        22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:



        Can you tell us what Jesus meant when He said His followers are to be one as Jesus and the Father are one?
        Yes, indeed.

        Jesus said that, that in the same way that God and Jesus are one, so his followers would be one.

        He was quite persistent in his prayer to the Father that we be one.

        John 17:11

        And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

        John 17:21

        That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

        John 17:22

        And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

        John 17:23

        I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

        Of course, this begs the question, why?, if Jesus is God, did he bother praying to someone else, to another God?

        Clearly, there would be then two Gods, one who is subordinate and inferior to the one being prayed to.

        One is the one praying, the other is the recipient of the prayer, the one who would answer the prayer.

        Since they are different, they are not the same.
        "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

        "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

        Pro scripture = Protestant

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          You say they are different Jesus said He is one with the Father. If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.
          Yes, they are different, did not you not read the scriptures I provided?

          Why not?

          IF you did, why did you not believe them?

          When you do God's will, whose will do people see you doing?

          When you do God's will, who are people getting to know?
          "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

          "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

          Pro scripture = Protestant

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
            Wise move!
            Yeah! I realized it wouldn't be worth the typing.
            "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
              You might turn that around and ask "why are you not one with us?"

              You will never belong with the rest of the church for we worship Christ as God.
              Since you and yours refuse to believe scripture on this subject, that might not be a bad thing.

              Why should GO tolerate your stubbornness and your errors?

              Why am I here?

              Because I erred in believing the trinity at one time, then I learn scripture, I Timothy 2:5 clarified the issue for me.

              God is God

              Men are men

              the one mediator between God and men is the man, the man, the man, Christ Jesus!!!

              All scripture fits with that verse and that verse fits with all scripture.
              "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

              "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

              Pro scripture = Protestant

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                Since you and yours refuse to believe scripture on this subject, that might not be a bad thing.

                Why should GO tolerate your stubbornness and your errors?

                Why am I here?

                Because I erred in believing the trinity at one time, then I learn scripture, I Timothy 2:5 clarified the issue for me.

                God is God

                Men are men

                the one mediator between God and men is the man, the man, the man, Christ Jesus!!!

                All scripture fits with that verse and that verse fits with all scripture.

                Have you ever asked yourself what was His reward for being faithful to His Father? What do you suppose you just might come up with?
                "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                  I think I will wait with bated breath just a little longer.

                  This bit of scripture might help someone:
                  ". . . I [God] will not give my glory unto another." . . . . . Isaiah 48:11 (KJV)

                  ". . . . the glory which thou gavest me [Jesus] I have given them [Disciples]; that they [Disciples] may be one, even as we are one" . . . . . .John 17:22 (KJV)
                  Well, you prove my point again.

                  Since God gave Jesus glory, well, at least according to Jesus Christ God did, then Jesus did not have that glory until God gave it to him.

                  Thus, again, they are different.

                  God gave Jesus glory.

                  Since God gave Jesus glory, then clearly you need to read the context of Isaiah 48:11 to find out who God is referring to when He says "another"

                  God gave you glory. If you logic is correct, then you are God.

                  Have you never read Romans 8:29-30 ?

                  29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

                  30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

                  Are you justified?

                  Yes you are, Romans 5:1, therefore God glorified you.

                  Since He glorified you, who does that make you?

                  Why have you not thought of these things?

                  Because your teachers did not know them, therefore it was impossible for you to be taught these things
                  "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                  "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                  Pro scripture = Protestant

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                    Well, you prove my point again.

                    Since God gave Jesus glory, well, at least according to Jesus Christ God did, then Jesus did not have that glory until God gave it to him.

                    Thus, again, they are different.

                    God gave Jesus glory.

                    Since God gave Jesus glory, then clearly you need to read the context of Isaiah 48:11 to find out who God is referring to when He says "another"

                    God gave you glory. If you logic is correct, then you are God.

                    Have you never read Romans 8:29-30 ?

                    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

                    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

                    Are you justified?

                    Yes you are, Romans 5:1, therefore God glorified you.

                    Since He glorified you, who does that make you?

                    Why have you not thought of these things?

                    Because your teachers did not know them, therefore it was impossible for you to be taught these things
                    Just answer my question and quit with all your bilge. I would guess you don't have one by all that.
                    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                      Have you ever asked yourself what was His reward for being faithful to His Father? What do you suppose you just might come up with?
                      Philippians 2:1-11

                      If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

                      2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

                      3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

                      4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

                      5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

                      6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

                      7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

                      8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

                      9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him
                      , and given him a name which is above every name:

                      10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

                      11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

                      Straight from scripture, how's that!

                      Seeing that God exalted Jesus Christ, we can see that God and Jesus Christ are different.

                      Therefore they are not the same.

                      Jesus Christ is lord, and who does that glorify?

                      God the Father! not Jesus the son. That is what it says!

                      Read it for yourself until you believe it.
                      "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                      "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                      Pro scripture = Protestant

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                        Just answer my question and quit with all your bilge. I would guess you don't have one by all that.
                        Well, since you consider the scripture I supplied bilge, you need a check up from the neck up, if you are going to call yourself a believer.
                        "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                        "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                        Pro scripture = Protestant

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                          Philippians 2:1-11

                          If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

                          2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

                          3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

                          4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

                          5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

                          6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

                          7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

                          8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

                          9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him
                          , and given him a name which is above every name:

                          10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

                          11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

                          Straight from scripture, how's that!

                          Seeing that God exalted Jesus Christ, we can see that God and Jesus Christ are different.

                          Therefore they are not the same.

                          Jesus Christ is lord, and who does that glorify?

                          God the Father! not Jesus the son. That is what it says!

                          Read it for yourself until you believe it.
                          . . And what do you do with the glory God gave Jesus, the glory God said He would share with no one, nor could He for that matter? How was it possible that HE could?
                          "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                            . . And what do you do with the glory God gave Jesus, the glory God said He would share with no one, nor could He for that matter? How was it possible that HE could?
                            Ask the question I already posed for you.

                            Who is that "another" that God refers to in Isaiah 48:11?

                            What is the context of that verse?

                            Who is God talking about?

                            Israel was busy worshiping idols, idols.

                            Israel was attributing to idols what God had blessed them with.

                            Israel was worshiping and serving the creation, not the Creator.

                            Isaiah 48:1-13

                            Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

                            2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is his name.

                            3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

                            4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

                            5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

                            6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

                            7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

                            8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

                            9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

                            10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

                            11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

                            12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

                            13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

                            Israel was worshiping and serving the creation, not the Creator.

                            The same thing happens today

                            Romans 1:18-25

                            18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

                            19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

                            20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

                            21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

                            22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

                            23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

                            24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

                            25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

                            We are to worship and serve the Creator, not the creation.

                            The son of God is part of God's creation.
                            "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                            "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                            Pro scripture = Protestant

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                              Ask the question I already posed for you.

                              Who is that "another" that God refers to in Isaiah 48:11?

                              What is the context of that verse?

                              Who is God talking about?

                              Israel was busy worshiping idols, idols.

                              Israel was attributing to idols what God had blessed them with.

                              Israel was worshiping and serving the creation, not the Creator.

                              Isaiah 48:1-13

                              Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

                              2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is his name.

                              3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

                              4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

                              5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

                              6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

                              7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

                              8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

                              9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

                              10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

                              11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

                              12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

                              13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

                              Israel was worshiping and serving the creation, not the Creator.

                              The same thing happens today

                              Romans 1:18-25

                              18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

                              19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

                              20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

                              21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

                              22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

                              23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

                              24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

                              25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

                              We are to worship and serve the Creator, not the creation.

                              The son of God is part of God's creation.
                              Don't change the subject! "another" means what it says!

                              What is the context of this verse?:

                              Yea, I have given them the glory thou gavest me, that they may be one as we are one" John 17:22 (MOFF)
                              "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                                Don't change the subject! "another" means what it says!

                                What is the context of this verse?:

                                Yea, I have given them the glory thou gavest me, that they may be one as we are one" John 17:22 (MOFF)
                                If context means nothing to you, then you cannot learn much from scripture.

                                When we let scripture, not our pet theology, do the talking, then we learn, until then, we are nothing but experts at guessing, guessperts!

                                When you read the context, then you will learn much, much more
                                "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                                "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                                Pro scripture = Protestant

                                Comment

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