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  • #91
    Originally posted by WeberHome View Post

    Bible students find the thought of people suffering in a fiery hell repulsive and unacceptable, God doesn't, no, not in the slightest. In point of fact; He's all for it. I know that's true because Christ said so.
    If you are going to claim that Christ said that God is all for people suffering in fiery hell, you are going to have to give a quote.

    Christ NEVER said "God is all for people suffering in a fiery hell".
    You are lying.

    Comment


    • #92
      -
      The wrath of God is interesting. For example:

      †. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of Christ comes-- cruel; with both wrath and
      fierce anger

      The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which
      indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be
      weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great
      White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated
      with extreme prejudice; viz: their judgment will be administered with choler.
      (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)

      Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
      that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
      attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
      savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
      ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.

      "cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
      humane feelings

      †. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation

      "fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It
      speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're
      actually red in the face.

      There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so
      coddled by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the
      magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to
      get them.

      Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
      administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.

      †. John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
      judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
      Father.

      †. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
      justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
      by raising him from the dead.

      †. Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
      winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

      You know all those horrors depicted in the book of Revelation? Jesus Christ
      has been designated to supervise every one of them.

      †. Rev 1:1 . .The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
      servants.

      Netherworld Update: 50 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
      the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,017,600 new
      arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
        -
        The wrath of God is interesting. For example:
        You like the doom and gloom don't you ? You love that Hell update. Netherworld sounds less harsh.

        Comment


        • #94
          Weber, you quoted part of Hebrews 10:27 as if it agreed with you that people are going to hell everyday where they will be tortured alive forever.

          Hebrews 10:27 doesn't say that. Here is what Hebrews 10:27 says:
          "but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (ESV)

          Don't you see that the fire will "consume" the adversaries? They will not remain alive forever - Unconsumed - In Hell being tortured alive forever.

          It is sad that people perish without Christ, without hope of eternal life in Christ. But it isn't true that these people will go to hell to be tortured alive forever. They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever.

          Comment


          • #95
            -
            Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
            They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in
            hell being tortured alive forever.
            Eternal life is not the same as immortality. For example: Christ had eternal
            life (John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2) yet was easily put to death on the
            cross.

            Now as for receiving eternal life: note the grammatical tense of the "have"
            verb in the passages below. It's present tense rather than future; indicating
            that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.

            †. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

            †. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

            †. John 6:54 . . Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal
            life

            †. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
            who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
            but they have already passed from death into life.

            †. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
            Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

            I should think that it goes without saying that christless people are in grave
            danger of the sum of all fears.

            †. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
            belong to Christ.

            According to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all matters pertaining
            to life and death, people lacking eternal life are also lacking His son; viz:
            they are quite christless.

            †. 1John 5:11-12 . .This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal
            life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and
            whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

            The reason that people lack eternal life in the here and now is very simple:
            they're unbelievers, and if something isn't done about it before they pass
            on; they will die unbelievers

            =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
              The reason that people lack eternal life in the here and now is very simple they're unbelievers, and if something isn't done about it before they pass on; they will die unbelievers
              Why is that a problem?

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by jamie View Post
                Why is that a problem?
                Jamie, you've been on this internet forum since 2010; and you still don't
                know? Please; if you're going to bore me, at least be clever about it.

                =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
                  Weber, you quoted part of Hebrews 10:27 as if it agreed with you that people are going to hell everyday where they will be tortured alive forever.

                  Hebrews 10:27 doesn't say that. Here is what Hebrews 10:27 says:
                  "but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (ESV)

                  Don't you see that the fire will "consume" the adversaries? They will not remain alive forever - Unconsumed - In Hell being tortured alive forever.

                  It is sad that people perish without Christ, without hope of eternal life in Christ. But it isn't true that these people will go to hell to be tortured alive forever. They will not receive eternal life, so they cannot possibly have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever.
                  That's right Tim, but weber grill doesn't want to think that way.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                    Jamie, you've been on this internet forum since 2010; and you still don't know?
                    I never ask a question that I can't answer. People dying as unbelievers is not a problem at all. Unbelievers will have chance to receive Christ.

                    Comment


                    • -
                      Creeping up the blind side, shinning up the wall,
                      stealing through the dark of the night.
                      Climbing through a window, stepping to the floor
                      checking to the left and the right.
                      Picking up the pieces, putting them away;
                      something doesn't feel quite right.

                      Help me someone, let me out of here.
                      Then out of the dark was suddenly heard:
                      Welcome to the Home by the Sea

                      Coming out the woodwork, through the open door,
                      pushing from above and below.
                      Shadows with no substance, in the shape of men;
                      round and down and sideways they go.
                      Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
                      then as one they sigh and they moan:

                      Help us someone, let us out of here.
                      Living here so long undisturbed,
                      dreaming of the time we were free
                      so many years ago
                      before the time when we first heard:
                      Welcome to the Home by the Sea

                      Sit down . . Sit down
                      As we relive our lives in what we tell you

                      Images of sorrow, pictures of delight
                      things that go to make up a life.
                      Endless days of summer, longer nights of gloom
                      waiting for the morning light.
                      Scenes of unimportance, photos in a frame
                      things that go to make up a life.

                      Sit down . . Sit down
                      Cause you won't get away,
                      no with us you will stay
                      for the rest of your days.
                      So sit down as we relive our lives in what we tell you.
                      Let us relive our lives in what we tell you.

                      Home By The Sea
                      Genesis, 1983
                      Phil Collins, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford

                      The lyrics of that song are very discouraging because it depicts how the only
                      thing people have to do down in the netherworld to help pass the time is tell
                      each other about their previous lives. There is, of course, nothing to tell
                      about their lives in hades since the colloquialism "get a life" is a non sequitur
                      in that place. Nobody has a life down there; nor any hope of getting one.

                      †. Ecc 9:10 . . Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your
                      might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in sheol
                      where you are going.

                      Netherworld Update: 53 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                      the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,198,656 new
                      arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                        Netherworld Update: 53 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,198,656 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.
                        Death and hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

                        Comment


                        • -
                          Below is a very disturbing passage.

                          †. 2Ths 2:11-12 . . And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,
                          that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not
                          believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

                          In other words; there's coming a time when God's patience will reach its
                          reasonable limits, and He will purposely, willfully, and deliberately make sure
                          that a certain category of people have no chance whatsoever to be spared
                          the wrath of God.

                          Back when Noah was preparing the ark, no doubt his neighbors all mocked
                          and poked fun at him like one of those deranged souls that go around with a
                          sandwich board that reads: Repent; The End Is Near! But when the rain
                          started, I bet those very same neighbors panicked and tried to get Noah to
                          open up and let them in. But even had Noah wanted to; he couldn't. The
                          hatch of the ark was sealed from the outside: and God was the only one on
                          earth who could open it-- He chose not to.

                          †. Rev 1:18 . . I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive
                          forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

                          †. Rev 3:7 . .These are the words of him who is holy and true: who holds
                          the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one
                          can open.

                          Netherworld Update: 56 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                          the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,379,712 new
                          arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                          =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                          Comment


                          • -
                            The koiné Greek word for "hell" in Rev 20:13-14 is haides (hah'-dace) which
                            doesn't eo ipso indicate a place of fiery suffering. It's primary meaning is the
                            netherworld, where, at one time, every deceased person went regardless of
                            their age and regardless of their goodness or their badness. Even Christ
                            went there (Psalm 16:10 & Acts 2:23-32) and he was a good person.

                            According to Luke 16:19-31, haides is (or was) divided into two sections:
                            one for good people and one for bad people. The section designated for good
                            people was (or is) quite pleasant. (Luke 23:43).

                            The reason haides is slated for demolition is simply because there will be no
                            need for it in the future. Its bad people will be transferred to the lake of fire,
                            and its good people to a new cosmos and a new earth as per Isa 65:17, 2Pet
                            3:10-13, and Rev 21:1.

                            Netherworld Update: 59 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                            the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,379,712 new
                            arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                            =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                              According to Luke 16:19-31, haides is (or was) divided into two sections: one for good people and one for bad people.
                              Not true. The grave and what it symbolizes is not divided.

                              The separation of body and spirit is death. The body decays and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

                              A person without a brain is brain dead.

                              Comment


                              • -
                                A forgiven sinner is still a sinner and they'll go right on sinning same as
                                before they were forgiven because human nature is intrinsically bad.

                                †. Gen 6:5 . .Yhvh saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had
                                become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
                                all the time.

                                †. Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from
                                childhood.

                                †. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
                                Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

                                †. Eph 2:3 . .We were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

                                Netherworld Update: 62 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If
                                the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,741,854 new
                                arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since October 30, 2015.

                                =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                                Comment

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