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  • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
    Would you please quote in God's Word aka the Tanach where Yahweh ever made that promise of a new Eden on earth? The only Kingdom promised by the Lord to the saints of the Most High was a restored Land of Israel as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) That's applied Truth.
    Here you are.....I thought you might be familiar with these passages from the Tanakh:

    [The shoot that shall grow out of the stump of Jesse] "shall strike down a land with the rod of his mouth and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips. Justice shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his waist. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard lie down with the kid; the calf, the beast of prey, and the fatling together, with a little boy to herd them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion, like the ox, shall eat straw. A babe shall play over a viper's hole, and an infant pass his hand over an adder's den. In all My sacred mount nothing evil or vile shall be done; for the land shall be filled with devotion to the LORD as water covers the sea." (Isaiah 11:1, 4-9, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.)

    *****

    "The arid desert shall be glad, the wilderness shall rejoice and shall blossom like a rose. It shall blossom abundantly, it shall also exult and shout. ...Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb shall shout aloud; for waters shall burst forth in the desert, streams in the wilderness. Torrid earth shall become a pool; parched land, fountains of water; the home of jackals, a pasture; the abode of ostriches, reeds and rushes." (Isaiah 35:1,2, 5-7, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.

    *****

    "They shall build houses and dwell in them, they shall plant vineyards and enjoy their fruit. They shall not build for others to dwell in, or plant for others to enjoy. For the days of My people shall be as long as the days of a tree, my chosen ones shall outlive the work of their hands. They shall not toil to no purpose; they shall not bear children for terror, but they shall be a people blessed by the LORD." (Isaiah 65: 21-23, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.

    *****

    "Every man shall sit under his grapevine or fig tree with no one to disturb him." (Micah 4:4, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh)


    I thought this was sufficient for us to see that these conditions, which do not exist now, will someday be the norm on the earth, and the Tanakh tells us so.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
      You're a joke, right ?
      He's not a joke, nor is he joking. What he said is true. The Bible is not taught in most churches. It's too bad that people don't know these simple truths. The earth was made for humans, and God's plan did not change.

      "For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens...He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited, 'I am the LORD, and there is none else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

      *****

      "The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, but the earth He has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

      *****

      "Evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:9,11, KJV)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post

        1 - That is true.....you said NO ONE will go to heaven. I guess I didn't word my sentence very well. Yes, hell is the grave, but how does that reflect on the ones who will rule with Christ?

        2 - Your 8....I agree, that is what Job thought at first. It took him awhile to understand what had happened. But he always believed in the resurrection, as he goes on to say:

        3 - "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait until my change comes. [Poetic license for waiting in the grave for his "change."] You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands." Job 14:14,15, NASB)

        4 -Ben, you are free to have your own opinions, and I respect your views though I don't agree. People can take from Job and other scriptures what they see as reasonable. I see a definite belief in coming back from the dead in Job.

        5 - I also see more in Daniel than you do. God had said that ALL the nations would be blessed, through Abraham, because Abraham listened to Him. (Genesis 18:18) Operative phrase: All the nations.
        1 - No one will rule with Jesus. No one can rule in the grave. Jesus is dead. He was a Jew and a Jew once dead will never return from the grave.

        2 - The Personage called Job never even existed in reality. The whole book of Job is only an allegory to teach the role of Israel as Immanuel to act as a mediator between God and man.

        3 - "If" a man dies is not the question but "when" a man dies; and the answer to the question is "no". When a man dies he will never live again. "Until my change comes" said Job. He was referring to the change of his condition from a sick man and back to a healthy one again.

        4 - Perhaps because you see with eyes intoxicated with Christian preconceived notions. The Jew who composed that Jewish allegory would not have done it to teach bodily resurrection which is an anti-Jewish doctrine.

        5 - But you have not mentioned any thing about bodily resurrection. Daniel was a Jew to predict an anti-Jewish doctrine.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
          That is true.....you said NO ONE will go to heaven. I guess I didn't word my sentence very well. Yes, hell is the grave, but how does that reflect on the ones who will rule with Christ?

          Your 8....I agree, that is what Job thought at first. It took him awhile to understand what had happened. But he always believed in the resurrection, as he goes on to say:

          "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait until my change comes. [Poetic license for waiting in the grave for his "change."] You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands." Job 14:14,15, NASB)

          Ben, you are free to have your own opinions, and I respect your views though I don't agree. People can take from Job and other scriptures what they see as reasonable. I see a definite belief in coming back from the dead in Job. I also see more in Daniel than you do. God had said that ALL the nations would be blessed, through Abraham, because Abraham listened to Him. (Genesis 18:18) Operative phrase: All the nations.
          The ancient Jews were well versed with the belief in a resurrection as this was taught as part of the Mosaic Law.

          Recall what Martha said to Jesus regarding the death of Lazarus:- Matthew 11:24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day". Jesus in the following verse confirming to Martha that there would be a resurrection said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

          Jesus himself also confirms the resurrection in John 6:40 saying "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

          It was only the Sadducee's who didn't believe in a resurrection as reminded here in Acts 23:8 which states: "Sadducees say there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit". Jesus when refuting the Sadducee's pointed them straight back to the Mosaic Law regarding the resurrection, which interestingly the Pharisees and the Essene's also believed in the resurrection on the "Last Day". Considering how well versed the Jews were with the Law which was provided by regular religious instruction its quite clear that since the days of the prophets and may be even as far back as when 'Israel' came out of Egypt the Hebrews were well versed in a resurrection that would occur on a world wide scale, the subsequent works of Elijah, Jesus and Paul being a testament to this.
          John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

          Comment


          • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
            No....it's not that no one is supposed to sacrifice his life for anyone else; it is that there is no human on the earth that can do it, because no human born from Adam is perfect.

            That is why Jesus had to do it. He was a perfect spirit person, and he was born a perfect human through Mary.
            I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jamie View Post
              All I did was quote scripture, too bad you reject it.
              As far as I am concerned you have simply quoted the wrong scripture, that's all.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.
                You forget one important fact: Jesus was a PERFECT man. He would not be included in what Eccles.7:20 says. He did NOT break the Golden Rule, ever. Jesus was concerned about the people and how they were being spiritually neglected by their religious leaders (as well as physically neglected). Reading through the Hebrew Scriptures shows us how the people were taken advantage of, and the injustices they suffered. I don't think Jesus was amiss in telling the religious higher-ups just what they were doing to ignore their responsibilities. No, he was not a sinner. He wanted the proud, selfish, materialistic religious leaders to wake up to what they were doing to overstep the commands of God.

                Comment


                • Would you please quote in God's Word aka the Tanach where Yahweh ever made that promise of a new Eden on earth? The only Kingdom promised by the Lord to the saints of the Most High was a restored Land of Israel as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) That's applied Truth.
                  The key to the text above is "as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever." Jer. 31:35-37. It means that God's promises are all conditional as they have been from the very beginning. Indeed, since the days of Abraham the Lord has confirmed His promises of a restored Land of Israel to the last arrangement with the New Covenant.(Jer. 31:31; Ezek. 37:22) But we have been granted with the attribute of Freewill and for that matter, God's promises are conditional at our remaining as a nation before the Lord forever; not of a time now and than. Forever is the condition. As long as we live.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
                    You forget one important fact: Jesus was a PERFECT man. He would not be included in what Eccles.7:20 says. He did NOT break the Golden Rule, ever. Jesus was concerned about the people and how they were being spiritually neglected by their religious leaders (as well as physically neglected). Reading through the Hebrew Scriptures shows us how the people were taken advantage of, and the injustices they suffered. I don't think Jesus was amiss in telling the religious higher-ups just what they were doing to ignore their responsibilities. No, he was not a sinner. He wanted the proud, selfish, materialistic religious leaders to wake up to what they were doing to overstep the commands of God.
                    Rose, anyone can see that you are letting yourself be taken away by Christian preconceived notions. To tell you the truth, I wonder why because Jesus was a Jewish man and never had anything to do with Christianity.
                    You should stand for Paul and not for Jesus because Paul was the founder of Christianity, not Jesus. (Acts 11:26)

                    Comment


                    • Yes.

                      Philippians 3:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                      20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

                      21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                        I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.
                        You think this because you are not a Christian
                        So, what?

                        believe it!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ABMF View Post
                          Are you Going to Heaven?

                          why, yes


                          yes i am



                          thanks for asking

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
                            You think this because you are not a Christian
                            Did you know that to be a Catholic is the same as to being a Christian? I have recently read "The Summa Theologica" by the famous Catholic Theologian Thomas Aquinas and he says that to go to Heaven, you have to be a Catholic. Do you agree with him? If you don't, you won't go to Heaven.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ben Masada View Post
                              Did you know that to be a Catholic is the same as to being a Christian? I have recently read "The Summa Theologica" by the famous Catholic Theologian Thomas Aquinas and he says that to go to Heaven, you have to be a Catholic. Do you agree with him? If you don't, you won't go to Heaven.
                              There's not a single passage or verse in the Bible that supports these spurious claims.
                              John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
                                There's not a single passage or verse in the Bible that supports these spurious claims.
                                I was aware of that. That's why I quoted the Summa Theologica and not the Bible. Now, it is your turn. Where in the Bible does it say that to go to Heaven, we need to be a Christian? Would you please?

                                Comment

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