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  • #91
    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    oh? how else can it mean but that Sabbath and winter were to continue beyond His DBR and ascension?

    so does the Father have a set of commandments that the Son’s set overrides? There are TWO SETS OF COMMANDS? Do we love one another differently than how the Son exemplified?? Maybe include Sunday Ham dinners after church in our love for each other? Love each other like the pagans? Or Muslims? How does Love as I love you not mean to follow Him His Way to love...
    According to this website, yes (I'm not MAD). Mark 2:21No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, and a worse tear will result.

    22And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”b

    The Lord of the Sabbath
    (1 Samuel 21:1-7; Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 6:1-5)

    23One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain as they walked along. 24So the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

    25Jesus replied, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread,c which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.”

    27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

    So, the Lord came to fulfill the law. Did He keep it with His disciples this day? Men will always throw their interpretation out there. Jesus nor His disciples, NOR a transformed believer are bound to such 'laws.' Rather, I'm bound to love, and in loving, I'll be okay with a ham dinner on whatever holy day of the week it is served. You can keep your traditions of men, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.


    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    right so the Spirit does or does not know the context? To teach us lead us in the way we should go? To lead us NOT into keeping the commandments or NOT loving as He loved us...?
    The Spirit leads as the Bible says and NO differently. Understand His word, you'll understand His Spirit. Men, being regenerate stagnate when they are told by another what to think, what to wear, how to worship. Hebrews 8:11 Jeremiah 31:4


    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    aw that is nice...so do you delight when He says keep my commandments...or pray your flight during the time of trouble is NOT on a Sabbath?
    #1) who did He say it to? How do we apply this, if it is regarding specifically the Apostles, or if it isn't a command but an observation, etc. Should I, dare I, just apply it straight, like a lot of law-givers tell me? Is that wise? Is it really seeking the Spirit, when it is coming from a man, and really, only his/her first inclination? Is THAT following the Spirit? Or should I really try to investigate what the Spirit is meaning and what it specifically means for me? #1) is it a command? Or an observation? Jesus is giving? IOW, is it people that love Him, "obviously will keep His command?" or is it "Keep My Command if you love Me!" (John 14:21;15:10) #2) which commandments? (John 15:12)

    If someone has the heart of God, residing in them, will they lie? Cheat? Kill? Steal? If they do, even just once, are they lost forever? If not, then law-thumpers are hypocrites, aren't they? Preaching to keep what they themselves cannot?Romans 2
    Spoiler


    Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

    Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

    12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    The Jews and the Law
    17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]

    25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

    28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.


    Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
    What is the Spirit saying?

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    BTW since you are so keen on context I was listing texts from Romans 7 which you referenced ALL OF IT as if it argues we are no longer under the law...so please put into context Paul’s writing “For I delight in the Law of Yah...” in verse 22...add to that how he ends thanking Yah he through His Son can actually serve the Law...verse 25
    Yet, it is what he is saying as a Jew. He already said it condemns, AND that a righteousnes "APART" from the law has come, THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what the Spirit is saying to us.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    wow...but this is not a competition between me and you but who delights...and loves AS HE LOVED US
    It seems, to me, that you did make it a competition. One where we are righteous BY keeping the law. Paul calls it a 'race' with a prize at the end. Do I want to 'beat you?' I simply want to help you cross that line. There is no way, under your and my power. Jesus crossed the line, fulfilling the requirements. It doesn't mean we sin on purpose all along the way. It means to 'keep our eyes on the prize' and in so doing, we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. I'm sure you know Romans, I'm simply trying to get you to grasp the whole of the book. Maybe read it all in one sitting, then spend a bit of time digesting it. Afterwards, when people like you and I talk online, or with a pastor/teacher, we can grasp and appreciate all the Spirit is saying. It isn't a book that can easily be glossed over. I very much appreciate reading through the Bible in a year BUT sometimes I don't do it. I spent about a half a year in Romans, once, a long time ago. I kept on reading other passages, but Romans captured me. The Spirit captured me.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    again delight that IN HIM we might serve the law of Yah...as it was instructed we keep His commandments...we just squabbling over one of them...here and now...
    I'm not really squabbling, other than teasing a bit, for meaning, to get you to realize none of us are better for keeping commandments. James 2:10

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    nope not at all...I imagine you try and keep all 9 of them quite well...it just that 4th commandment concerning the day of rest both native and foreigner receive...Imagine that...rejecting a day off....your employers must love you...
    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    EXACTLY...the 9 you have no problems with...its that last 1 about the sabbath...so yours is a 9/10ths love
    You are trying to make me worship on 'Saturday" (not sure if that is your day, but probably) and I'm convinced, being fair at math, the day is not in fact, Saturday, but changed. The Jews would reboot every few years to keep up with the seasons. They didn't get caught in legalism as if the Sabbath was something like "every Saturday (named after a pagan God). Nor do I believe a Christian can BUT keep the Sabbath. We found rest, permanently, in Christ. Having Christ, KEEPS the Sabbath. Being Holy, every day is Holy. It means, regardless of legalism, everyday is a Sabbath rest. Hebrews 10:1 Hebrews 4:10,11 I'm against the law in trying to earn salvation. I'm against the legalism (Romans 2) that accompanies and enslaves. Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [to the Law]. What is the Spirit saying? Are we listening?

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    merely to point out sin...never perfected...wasnt meant to duh...but which Laws...I mean pagans keep laws too and they agree dont lie, steal, kill, covet, adultery, honor parents...so is that it then?
    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    really? A higher calling? Your savior doesnt want you to have a day off? You serve another master...sad
    No. It is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath. We completely disagree. It was made for man (for me), not the other way around. You can be sad. I find it a juvenile understanding. You ARE caught in it. More? You ARE trying to tell others what to do, and on what day to do it. Fact.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Not worried at all...I see you wish to keep 9 out of 10... I live more abundantly even with my day off...you should try it...cuz that is what He did...and aske you to copy
    YOU asked me to copy. You are forcing YOUR understanding/rendition. Such is Pharisaical, legalism, bound to the law. The Apostle Paul said "Foolish" Galatians for it.


    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    awww...LOVE...again like the pagans love or the muslims? Or the Buddhists? They are loving too ya dig? Or are we not to love as He loved...so just show me where He loved His with Ham dinners after Sunday church...
    Better than trying to beat a pagan into law submission, at least. But I did not, in fact, advocate that. Romans 13 rather
    Spoiler
    Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the Law.
    Rom 13:9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

    Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not take thought beforehand for the lusts of the flesh.


    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    oh nice...so He holds you despite you rebelling following NOT HIM HIS WAY...
    Simply because you want to accuse? Romans 2:Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Paul wrote to the Galatians that Yah knew them now because they forsake their ways and followed Him His Ways...Gal 4:9

    so yes rather we are known by Yah for our obedience...we are set apart a holy people NOT like the world...but peculiar
    Spiritual is 'internal.' The Law is external, by force. You cannot guilt someone into submission, for salvation. It cannot be done. 1) New Creation THEN 2) New works FROM that new Creation. You don't have to tell an apple tree to produce apples and 'stop bearing thistles.' It's goofy. Nor do you need to tell a new creation in Christ, to 'be like Christ.' You can encourage them, but unless that process has started, by Christ, it is never going to happen.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    you are so romantic...so you are saved...saved to keep doing your sin...keep your old ways...the ways of the world...to love as the world loves? Nothing transformative in that love? Like you know stop killing maybe...or stop lying...or stop stealing...or do you keep doing all this cuz “you saved”
    How carnal are you? Are you STILL following Him in your flesh? Do I REALLY have to tell you not to covet your neighbor's things and wife? Do I REALLY???? Are you, or aren't you a new creation, recreated in Christ for every good work? "Live by the Spirit (God) and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. That is the new law, the new commandment. It isn't 'romantic' whatever that could mean. John 15:5, Jesus said it.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    not mentioned? right...because like with following in love...YOU WANT TO DO WHAT THE OTHER WANTS...just like when you are saved...grateful you FOLLOW HIM...not your own do what thou whilst traditions...
    If a man is of the flesh, you will NOT brow-beat them into holiness. It didn't work for many of the Jews.

    as if potential lovers present itemized rules on the first date...lol. Even Yah developed a relationship before giving the rules...[/QUOTE]
    Are you a new creation? Do you know what that means? "For him who has ears to hear' is/was always about whether His Spirit resides.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    awwww so sweet...again is that love and care as Buddhists love and care? As muslims love and care? As jews love and care? Jesus said love as I love you...boom there...so did He ever lovingly offer Ham dinners after caring Sunday church?
    Spirit. Otherwise it is flesh after flesh. You cannot brow-beat flesh into Spiritual submission. It is a cart before horse endeavor. You and I are but planters and waterers. Only God gives increase because He must transform that person. Unless they are transformed, no amount of 'obey' is every going to be good for anything (except convicting those in NEED of a Savior). You, by your logic and flesh, are trouncing up and down, upon the work of Christ. My hope is built, on nothing less, than Jesus' blood, and righteousness.
    1. My hope is built on nothing less
      Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
      I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
      But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
      • Refrain:
        On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
        All other ground is sinking sand,
        All other ground is sinking sand.
    2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
      I rest on His unchanging grace;
      In every high and stormy gale,
      My anchor holds within the veil.
    3. His oath, His covenant, His blood
      Support me in the whelming flood;
      When all around my soul gives way,
      He then is all my hope and stay.
    4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
      Oh, may I then in Him be found;
      Dressed in His righteousness alone,
      Faultless to stand before the throne.
    Whatever issue of 'romance' is this: Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
    Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    yup...like Heb 4:9 a sabbatismos (sabbath keeping) remains for His people...but I guess you aint His people...
    No, not if you are still obeying in the flesh. I am not a part of that people any longer, you are correct.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    BTW given not just to jews...to all 12 tribes and foreigners believing with them...
    which would be the Judaized.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    you of course are only 9/10 high...lol
    Really? So you never lie? Never have stolen? Never cuss? Never covet a car going down the road? Maybe you are doing better than me....Matthew 5:23 Whoever has desired a thing in his heart, has already sinned.

    ironic the Sabbath was given before jews...at the time of creation...so Yah could rest and remember what He did in 6 days

    even in the wilderness the Sabbath was lived out BEFORE the Law was given...neat eh?
    Yet, it was made for me, not me for it. The Pharisees had it exactly backwards.

    goodness...sadly most adults live only in fear of the enforcement of law or penalty of HELL FIRE FOREVER...another punishing rod added to the word...


    but in your case it is the 9 not the 10...most people forget/ignore/reject His jewishness...jewish ways...all too happy with all those Sunday Ham dinners...lol
    And or Saturday. The heart of a worshipper worships. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins.
    your 9/10 love is like the world...Muslim or Buddhist or Pagans...all so loving...happy to feast and fellowship
    In your humble, judgmental opinion.


    really...so new Satan festival days are holy...goodness indeed
    You think he can rob God of any day? Aren't they ALL His? I cannot help but think you've an immature view of the world. It all belongs to God.

    is that your gospel then? His invitation remains exactly that...Remember the Sabbath day...because where I am the Sabbath is kept...ask Isaiah how this all ends when all flesh shall come to worship before Him...FYI where He is the other 9 are also kept...imagine that...
    You are mixing your proverbial metaphors. You apply a LOT more than I believe you are supposed to do, even if you were a Christian Jew today. You better not sacrifice a bull. Hebrews 6:4 Back then? GOOD! Today? BAD! Pay attention! You aren't. You are a Jew in gentile clothing and worse, being disobedient to God whenever you try and do something He has already done.


    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    whatever they do? Like kill steal adultery covet lie? Make idols? blaspheme His name? worship another god? You sure?
    Those who are of flesh, are flesh. Those who are of Spirit, are Spirit. Those of the Spirit are new creations, with natures that desire Christ. If not? Worry and pray for them. They may not be His at all, despite church attendance. Merely 'keeping the 10 commandments' will not save them, or you, or me.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Oh and whether they eat human flesh or drink blood...is all good and Glory to Yah?...Heaven forbid...
    YOU are twisting the scriptures! How in the world would or could you add to the word of God? Interpretation is like that, it reveals if we are men of Spirit, or merely men of flesh following the law but not with the heart. Would a believer be a cannibal? Why would such a notion, not even practiced by pagans, but exceptionally, come to your mind? How in the world, did your mind travel here, Clefty? What in the world?

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Your rebellion is towards merely 1 commandment....you merely twist and turn for 1 commandment....all this sophistry and rationalization and text twisting to reject a day off...given to you by your creator...knowing it is good for you...
    YOU are bound by the law, not me. The Sabbath is a day of rest and worship. Nor do you know me, but yes, I occasionally do good on that day of rest. You? Judging. Getting into another's business. Worse? For Saturday (named after the pagan god)?

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Pray in the coming days of trouble your flight be not in winter or on a Sabbath day.
    ..For me, history. It DID happen, with the Apostles. For me? No. It was written to Jews and written for immediate fulfillment ("this generation shall not pass away before these have been fulfilled"). Likely we adamantly disagree, but my first inclination these days is not to 'apply' but to learn more, THEN apply. Straight applications would have me sacrificing from my O.T. readings before I ever reached the N.T. I'd simply be a converted Jew at that point.

    Originally posted by clefty View Post
    Or is it “here are they that keep 9/10ths of the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua (except that Sabbath thingy)”...?
    OR sacrificing bulls...Where are you? 99/100? You couldn't convince anybody by those numbers. I wonder, honestly, of the 627 commandments the Jews followed, which you keep. Do you wear a coat on the Sabbath? YOU are picking and choosing, then Judaizing your brothers and sisters, perhaps without realizing it, by reading other's mail and trying to 1) follow it yourself and 2) make others do what you are 'convinced of.' Be better informed THEN push your agenda, not the othe way around.
    Last edited by Lon; May 30th, 2020, 01:39 PM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    ? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Lon View Post
      According to this website, yes (I'm not MAD). Mark 2:21No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, and a worse tear will result.

      22And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”b

      The Lord of the Sabbath
      (1 Samuel 21:1-7; Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 6:1-5)

      23One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain as they walked along. 24So the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

      25Jesus replied, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread,c which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.”

      27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

      So, the Lord came to fulfill the law. Did He keep it with His disciples this day? Men will always throw their interpretation out there. Jesus nor His disciples, NOR a transformed believer are bound to such 'laws.' Rather, I'm bound to love, and in loving, I'll be okay with a ham dinner on whatever holy day of the week it is served. You can keep your traditions of men, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.



      The Spirit leads as the Bible says and NO differently. Understand His word, you'll understand His Spirit. Men, being regenerate stagnate when they are told by another what to think, what to wear, how to worship. Hebrews 8:11 Jeremiah 31:4



      #1) who did He say it to? How do we apply this, if it is regarding specifically the Apostles, or if it isn't a command but an observation, etc. Should I, dare I, just apply it straight, like a lot of law-givers tell me? Is that wise? Is it really seeking the Spirit, when it is coming from a man, and really, only his/her first inclination? Is THAT following the Spirit? Or should I really try to investigate what the Spirit is meaning and what it specifically means for me? #1) is it a command? Or an observation? Jesus is giving? IOW, is it people that love Him, "obviously will keep His command?" or is it "Keep My Command if you love Me!" (John 14:21;15:10) #2) which commandments? (John 15:12)

      If someone has the heart of God, residing in them, will they lie? Cheat? Kill? Steal? If they do, even just once, are they lost forever? If not, then law-thumpers are hypocrites, aren't they? Preaching to keep what they themselves cannot?Romans 2
      Spoiler


      Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

      Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

      12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

      The Jews and the Law
      17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]

      25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

      28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.


      Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
      What is the Spirit saying?


      Yet, it is what he is saying as a Jew. He already said it condemns, AND that a righteousnes "APART" from the law has come, THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what the Spirit is saying to us.


      It seems, to me, that you did make it a competition. One where we are righteous BY keeping the law. Paul calls it a 'race' with a prize at the end. Do I want to 'beat you?' I simply want to help you cross that line. There is no way, under your and my power. Jesus crossed the line, fulfilling the requirements. It doesn't mean we sin on purpose all along the way. It means to 'keep our eyes on the prize' and in so doing, we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. I'm sure you know Romans, I'm simply trying to get you to grasp the whole of the book. Maybe read it all in one sitting, then spend a bit of time digesting it. Afterwards, when people like you and I talk online, or with a pastor/teacher, we can grasp and appreciate all the Spirit is saying. It isn't a book that can easily be glossed over. I very much appreciate reading through the Bible in a year BUT sometimes I don't do it. I spent about a half a year in Romans, once, a long time ago. I kept on reading other passages, but Romans captured me. The Spirit captured me.


      I'm not really squabbling, other than teasing a bit, for meaning, to get you to realize none of us are better for keeping commandments. James 2:10


      You are trying to make me worship on 'Saturday" (not sure if that is your day, but probably) and I'm convinced, being fair at math, the day is not in fact, Saturday, but changed. The Jews would reboot every few years to keep up with the seasons. They didn't get caught in legalism as if the Sabbath was something like "every Saturday (named after a pagan God). Nor do I believe a Christian can BUT keep the Sabbath. We found rest, permanently, in Christ. Having Christ, KEEPS the Sabbath. Being Holy, every day is Holy. It means, regardless of legalism, everyday is a Sabbath rest. Hebrews 10:1 Hebrews 4:10,11 I'm against the law in trying to earn salvation. I'm against the legalism (Romans 2) that accompanies and enslaves. Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [to the Law]. What is the Spirit saying? Are we listening?




      No. It is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath. We completely disagree. It was made for man (for me), not the other way around. You can be sad. I find it a juvenile understanding. You ARE caught in it. More? You ARE trying to tell others what to do, and on what day to do it. Fact.

      YOU asked me to copy. You are forcing YOUR understanding/rendition. Such is Pharisaical, legalism, bound to the law. The Apostle Paul said "Foolish" Galatians for it.


      Better than trying to beat a pagan into law submission, at least. But I did not, in fact, advocate that. Romans 13 rather
      Spoiler
      Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the Law.
      Rom 13:9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
      Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

      Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not take thought beforehand for the lusts of the flesh.


      Simply because you want to accuse? Romans 2:Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.


      Spiritual is 'internal.' The Law is external, by force. You cannot guilt someone into submission, for salvation. It cannot be done. 1) New Creation THEN 2) New works FROM that new Creation. You don't have to tell an apple tree to produce apples and 'stop bearing thistles.' It's goofy. Nor do you need to tell a new creation in Christ, to 'be like Christ.' You can encourage them, but unless that process has started, by Christ, it is never going to happen.


      How carnal are you? Are you STILL following Him in your flesh? Do I REALLY have to tell you not to covet your neighbor's things and wife? Do I REALLY???? Are you, or aren't you a new creation, recreated in Christ for every good work? "Live by the Spirit (God) and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. That is the new law, the new commandment. It isn't 'romantic' whatever that could mean. John 15:5, Jesus said it.

      If a man is of the flesh, you will NOT brow-beat them into holiness. It didn't work for many of the Jews.

      as if potential lovers present itemized rules on the first date...lol. Even Yah developed a relationship before giving the rules...
      Are you a new creation? Do you know what that means? "For him who has ears to hear' is/was always about whether His Spirit resides.


      Spirit. Otherwise it is flesh after flesh. You cannot brow-beat flesh into Spiritual submission. It is a cart before horse endeavor. You and I are but planters and waterers. Only God gives increase because He must transform that person. Unless they are transformed, no amount of 'obey' is every going to be good for anything (except convicting those in NEED of a Savior). You, by your logic and flesh, are trouncing up and down, upon the work of Christ. My hope is built, on nothing less, than Jesus' blood, and righteousness.
      1. My hope is built on nothing less
        Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
        I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
        But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
        • Refrain:
          On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
          All other ground is sinking sand,
          All other ground is sinking sand.
      2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
        I rest on His unchanging grace;
        In every high and stormy gale,
        My anchor holds within the veil.
      3. His oath, His covenant, His blood
        Support me in the whelming flood;
        When all around my soul gives way,
        He then is all my hope and stay.
      4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
        Oh, may I then in Him be found;
        Dressed in His righteousness alone,
        Faultless to stand before the throne.
      Whatever issue of 'romance' is this: Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
      Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,


      No, not if you are still obeying in the flesh. I am not a part of that people any longer, you are correct.

      which would be the Judaized.

      Really? So you never lie? Never have stolen? Never cuss? Never covet a car going down the road? Maybe you are doing better than me....Matthew 5:23 Whoever has desired a thing in his heart, has already sinned.

      Yet, it was made for me, not me for it. The Pharisees had it exactly backwards.


      And or Saturday. The heart of a worshipper worships. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins.

      In your humble, judgmental opinion.



      You think he can rob God of any day? Aren't they ALL His? I cannot help but think you've an immature view of the world. It all belongs to God.


      You are mixing your proverbial metaphors. You apply a LOT more than I believe you are supposed to do, even if you were a Christian Jew today. You better not sacrifice a bull. Hebrews 6:4 Back then? GOOD! Today? BAD! Pay attention! You aren't. You are a Jew in gentile clothing and worse, being disobedient to God whenever you try and do something He has already done.



      Those who are of flesh, are flesh. Those who are of Spirit, are Spirit. Those of the Spirit are new creations, with natures that desire Christ. If not? Worry and pray for them. They may not be His at all, despite church attendance. Merely 'keeping the 10 commandments' will not save them, or you, or me.

      YOU are twisting the scriptures! How in the world would or could you add to the word of God? Interpretation is like that, it reveals if we are men of Spirit, or merely men of flesh following the law but not with the heart. Would a believer be a cannibal? Why would such a notion, not even practiced by pagans, but exceptionally, come to your mind? How in the world, did your mind travel here, Clefty? What in the world?

      YOU are bound by the law, not me. The Sabbath is a day of rest and worship. Nor do you know me, but yes, I occasionally do good on that day of rest. You? Judging. Getting into another's business. Worse? For Saturday (named after the pagan god)?

      ..For me, history. It DID happen, with the Apostles. For me? No. It was written to Jews and written for immediate fulfillment ("this generation shall not pass away before these have been fulfilled"). Likely we adamantly disagree, but my first inclination these days is not to 'apply' but to learn more, THEN apply. Straight applications would have me sacrificing from my O.T. readings before I ever reached the N.T. I'd simply be a converted Jew at that point.



      OR sacrificing bulls...Where are you? 99/100? You couldn't convince anybody by those numbers. I wonder, honestly, of the 627 commandments the Jews followed, which you keep. Do you wear a coat on the Sabbath? YOU are picking and choosing, then Judaizing your brothers and sisters, perhaps without realizing it, by reading other's mail and trying to 1) follow it yourself and 2) make others do what you are 'convinced of.' Be better informed THEN push your agenda, not the othe way around.
      Yeah you MAD...

      As if He said “Think not that I have come to destroy the Law but that I have come to give a new way and not as I did”

      Alrighty then...suit yourself your your own 9/10ths way...

      Comment


      • #93
        I am afraid that, in reality, living the unconditional love towards all others, including one’s enemies (as revealed clearly by Jesus Christ), contradicts any system’s law in the world (said inspired by God or not).

        For example, if a good Pagan, a good Muslim or a good Jew helps whoever is considered, by the men in charge of the system to which he belongs, being an enemy of God, he would certainly be seen as a traitor.

        So, we like it or not, independent persons ‘only’ may have the chance to feed their soul with the joy of True Love; now on earth and for eternity (in the Divine Love’s Kingdom).

        By the way, if someone loves others because it is commanded by God or else, he could call it anything but true love (which is based strictly on a free personal decision).

        In brief, living True Love (the essence of Jesus teachings) and obeying any law cannot co-exist at a certain time for the same person.

        Cheers,

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by clefty View Post

          Yeah you MAD...
          It'd simply be 'dispensational' at this venture of discussion, AND you'd be incorrect on both counts.

          Next time? Ask?

          Originally posted by clefty View Post
          As if He said “Think not that I have come to destroy the Law but that I have come to give a new way and not as I did”
          He was a Jew, but CLEARLY, He set the bar higher. However Judaized you happen to be, it is still rules, rules, rules. What did you, in fact, do, Saturday? Pray? Fast? Watch television? Read? How did you celebrate it as a holy day and more, consecrate it as holy? Spend extra time in scripture? Or did you just eat a no-ham dinner and relax? How, in fact, did you observe the day to make it Holy?
          Originally posted by clefty View Post
          Alrighty then...suit yourself your your own 9/10ths way...
          9/10ths? That's generous! I'll take it. To covet, is to steal. To lust is to commit adultery.

          Perhaps becoming a Jew could/would make me closer to the Savior, but the Apostle Paul clearly was against it and said that any amount of resorting to 'law living' was always going to direct one away from 'grace and joy living.' Always. So, if the alternative is a whitewashed tomb, yes, I'll gladly take a 9/10 moniker from a mandater than to ever (EVER) reject grace. That much is sure. My walk is about Jesus and Him crucified for my and your sorry state of sin. I need the Lord Jesus Christ just as much today, as I did when I first called upon Him.
          My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
          Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
          Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
          Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
          No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
          Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

          ? Yep

          Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

          ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

          Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Lon View Post
            A few scriptures Clefty couldn't be bothered with 'keeping?:
            Spoiler

            Mark 2:21No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, and a worse tear will result.

            22And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wine-skins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”b

            The Lord of the Sabbath
            (1 Samuel 21:1-7; Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 6:1-5)

            23One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain as they walked along. 24So the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

            25Jesus replied, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread,c which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.”

            27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

            So, the Lord came to fulfill the law. Did He keep it with His disciples this day? Men will always throw their interpretation out there. Jesus nor His disciples, NOR a transformed believer are bound to such 'laws.' Rather, I'm bound to love, and in loving, I'll be okay with a ham dinner on whatever holy day of the week it is served. You can keep your traditions of men, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

            Hebrews 8:11 Jeremiah 31:4

            (John 14:21;15:10 (John 15:12)

            Romans 2

            Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

            Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

            12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

            The Jews and the Law
            17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”[b]

            25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

            28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.


            Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

            What is the Spirit saying?


            Romans 3:20.... a righteousness "APART" from the law has come, THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what the Spirit is saying.

            Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [to the Law]. What is the Spirit saying? Are we listening?

            Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the Law.
            Rom 13:9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
            Rom 13:10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

            Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not take thought beforehand for the lusts of the flesh.

            Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.


            John 15:5, Jesus said it.[*]

            Christ the Solid Rock

            My hope is built on nothing less
            Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
            I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
            But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
            • Refrain:
              On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
              All other ground is sinking sand,
              All other ground is sinking sand.
            [*]When darkness veils His lovely face,
            I rest on His unchanging grace;
            In every high and stormy gale,
            My anchor holds within the veil.[*]His oath, His covenant, His blood
            Support me in the whelming flood;
            When all around my soul gives way,
            He then is all my hope and stay.[*]When He shall come with trumpet sound,
            Oh, may I then in Him be found;
            Dressed in His righteousness alone,
            Faultless to stand before the throne.
            Whatever issue of 'romance' is this: Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
            Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
            -Hymn written by a MADist? No it was not. Edward Mote was a baptist preacher in Britain

            Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin. 21But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

            Being a Jew, for Clefty, is easier than following the commandments of Christ I'd WAY rather be accused against the Ten than against Christ's. They aren't separated, but Clefty has managed it. Pray for him.
            My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
            Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
            Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
            Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
            No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
            Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

            ? Yep

            Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

            ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

            Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

            Comment


            • #96
              Sorry, is there another Jesus than the one I know? Jesus, I know, doesn't say to observe any holy day. But, I also understand that a Pagan, a Muslim and a Jew are all supposed to observe certain days as holy ones; besides various civil holidays perhaps. By the way, even Atheists are pleased to have a weekend (one day, in the least). And, in reality, the Lord's Day (weekend?) is the one that the 'men in charge' of a ruling system (civil, religious or political) confirm/approve for their people (followers).

              Sorry again, is it possible for a person to be a Jew while he disobeys clearly and in public his Jewish Elders?
              For example, Jesus, I know, had to be crucified as a dangerous criminal (threatening the nation of Israel) just because he didn't obey rules which preserve the prestige of the Jewish Elders in his time. But I also understand that if a person knew another Jesus who was Jewish and following the teachings of Judaism as good Jews do in these days.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                Sorry, is there another Jesus than the one I know? Jesus, I know, doesn't say to observe any holy day.
                During His earthly ministry to Israel, He most certainly told them (Israel) to follow the law. The law includes many holy days that were required for every one of the children of Israel to observe.


                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #98
                  There is no controversy, it is very simple:

                  The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
                  The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".

                  Very simple.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                    There is no controversy, it is very simple:

                    The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
                    The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".

                    Very simple.
                    Revelation 1:10 is not talking about either of those. Very simple.
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                      There is no controversy, it is very simple:

                      The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
                      The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".

                      Very simple.

                      Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                      Revelation 1:10 is not talking about either of those. Very simple.

                      According to your erroneous interpretation you mean. I have yet to see you interpret any scripture correctly, so don't try to start now.

                      Simple.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                        According to your erroneous interpretation you mean. I have yet to see you interpret any scripture correctly, so don't try to start now.

                        Simple.
                        What would an RC know about interpreting scripture correctly? (Hint: the correct answer is nothing)
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                          Sorry, is there another Jesus than the one I know? Jesus, I know, doesn't say to observe any holy day. But, I also understand that a Pagan, a Muslim and a Jew are all supposed to observe certain days as holy ones; besides various civil holidays perhaps. By the way, even Atheists are pleased to have a weekend (one day, in the least). And, in reality, the Lord's Day (weekend?) is the one that the 'men in charge' of a ruling system (civil, religious or political) confirm/approve for their people (followers).

                          Sorry again, is it possible for a person to be a Jew while he disobeys clearly and in public his Jewish Elders?
                          For example, Jesus, I know, had to be crucified as a dangerous criminal (threatening the nation of Israel) just because he didn't obey rules which preserve the prestige of the Jewish Elders in his time. But I also understand that if a person knew another Jesus who was Jewish and following the teachings of Judaism as good Jews do in these days.
                          Ummm the Father has a set of commandments and the Son has a separate set that undermines and divides this kingdom?

                          Despite all the texts having Him say “Do My Father’s will”? Which was to get rid of one of the commandments? No longer provide a day of rest?

                          Despite a covenant taught and exemplified to follow BEFORE it was signed blood and sealed by His death? No changes are allowed after...

                          Despite the Sabbath was ALWAYS for the stranger within Israel’s gates and not just for Jews...in fact the ONLY commandments of the 10 with specific instruction it is for ANY who believe...ONE law for native and foreigner alike...

                          Is it in revelations “Here are they that keep 9 of the commandments? And have the faith OF Jesus except the Sabbath”?
                          Last edited by clefty; June 3rd, 2020, 11:56 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                            Revelation 1:10 is not talking about either of those. Very simple.
                            Do tell...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                              There is no controversy, it is very simple:

                              The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
                              The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".

                              Very simple.
                              Yup...in fact the Roman Church uses the transfer of Sabbath to Sunday as its mark of authority...

                              It prides itself it was NOT in scripture but in tradition...Sunday or every day any day is NOT in scripture the councils insist...despite the best attempts by these recent keyboard scholars attempts to insert it back into scripture...

                              As if He lies when He said “think NOT the Law will be destroyed” and any change would destroy it...

                              in fact in Acts 6:13-14 they accuse poor Stephen that he taught Jesus changed the customs of Moses...Luke was clear this was FALSE WITNESS as Stephen did NOT teach Jesus changed the Law handed to Moses...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by clefty View Post
                                Yup...in fact the Roman Church uses the transfer of Sabbath to Sunday as its mark of authority...
                                That is FALSE. That is not true.

                                Here is official teaching, from the Catechism, posted on the Vatican website, special note on 2175:



                                I. THE SABBATH DAY

                                2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

                                2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

                                2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

                                2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

                                2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

                                2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

                                II. THE LORD'S DAY


                                - - This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

                                The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

                                2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:


                                - - We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

                                Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

                                2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107


                                - - Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

                                2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people
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                                NOTE that 2175 says that the Sabbath is not the same as the Lord's Day, and that the Lord's Day is a different day. It was never "transfered" as you claim. You are posting lies in the name of God.

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