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  • #16
    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

    Is that your way of saying please tell how to become a sheep according to Jesus?

    How are Gentiles, Canaanites, Samaritans, Greeks, etc, saved if they don't become sheep?

    Jesus called some none Jews 'dogs' and 'pigs'.

    The Jews when disobedient were called 'heifers'.

    We have to be like sheep to be saved.

    We become like sheep when we follow Jesus around and want him more than anything. We have to humble ourselves and be ready to do what ever Jesus wants us to do. We have to have faith and repent of our sins, and call on him to help, just like a child


    Matthew 15

    The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

    21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

    23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

    24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

    25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

    26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

    27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”



    Not all Israelites had faith in God, for obeying the law did NOT have to do with faith, see Galatians 3:12.

    Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

    Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."



    The Jews who were not sheep, they were bound over to the same place as the Gentiles.

    Do you really think that ANY cut off Jews were sheep?

    Do you really think that any Gentiles were sheep?

    The cut of non sheep were put with the Gentiles.


    We have to become sheep to get saved.
    Agreed. From Gotquestions.org

    ​​​​​​To understand who the “other sheep” from John 10:16 are, we must begin with the context of the verse and examine the whole passage. We know from many Bible passages that sheep are a symbol of true believers who follow Christ, their true Shepherd. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. If He says that there are “other” sheep, then we must identify the original sheep that the “others” are different from.

    Beginning in chapter 9 of John, we find Jesus discoursing at great length with the Pharisees after He healed a man who was born blind. He compares the man’s simple faith with the unbelief of the Pharisees and condemns them for their willful spiritual blindness. He begins by denouncing the false shepherds of Israel—the blind, self-appointed leaders who drew the people away from the true knowledge and kingdom of their Messiah (John 9:39-41). Then in chapter 10, He explains at great length the nature of true sheep, those who follow the Good Shepherd, sent and appointed by God. True sheep are those who listen to the voice of the Shepherd (v. 3) and follow Him (v. 4) and know Him (v. 14). He can only be speaking here of the true sheep of Israel because, up to that point, His ministry was confined to the sheep of Israel.

    In verse 16, Jesus refers to the “other sheep,” and those can only be sheep that are outside of Israel, in other words, Gentiles. But the Gentiles who would follow Him are no less sheep than the true sheep of Israel. In fact, Jesus makes it clear that the Gentile sheep would also hear His voice and follow Him, and, eventually, there would be only one flock and one Shepherd. This is the mystery of the universal body of Christ, the church, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:6, “This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.” A mystery in Scripture is usually something not revealed previously, and this mystery—one universal church with both Jews and Gentiles brought together in one body in the Messiah—was so shocking to the Pharisees that they accused Jesus of being a demon-possessed lunatic (John 10:20-21).

    Paul’s commission from Christ was to “preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ” (Ephesians 6:8) because the Gentiles, the “other sheep,” needed to be brought into the fold of the true Shepherd. Paul explains in Romans 11:16-36 the mystery of the church by using the imagery of a branch (the Gentiles) being grafted into the tree (Israel). Israel has been temporarily set aside until the “full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). This is occurring now in the Church Age, but eventually both Jews and Gentiles will live in glorious harmony in the Millennial Kingdom and then in eternity when all true sheep will follow their Shepherd forever as one body.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

      Agreed. From Gotquestions.org

      ​​​​​​To understand who the “other sheep” from John 10:16 are, we must begin with the context of the verse and examine the whole passage. We know from many Bible passages that sheep are a symbol of true believers who follow Christ, their true Shepherd. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. If He says that there are “other” sheep, then we must identify the original sheep that the “others” are different from.

      Beginning in chapter 9 of John, we find Jesus discoursing at great length with the Pharisees after He healed a man who was born blind. He compares the man’s simple faith with the unbelief of the Pharisees and condemns them for their willful spiritual blindness. He begins by denouncing the false shepherds of Israel—the blind, self-appointed leaders who drew the people away from the true knowledge and kingdom of their Messiah (John 9:39-41). Then in chapter 10, He explains at great length the nature of true sheep, those who follow the Good Shepherd, sent and appointed by God. True sheep are those who listen to the voice of the Shepherd (v. 3) and follow Him (v. 4) and know Him (v. 14). He can only be speaking here of the true sheep of Israel because, up to that point, His ministry was confined to the sheep of Israel.

      In verse 16, Jesus refers to the “other sheep,” and those can only be sheep that are outside of Israel, in other words, Gentiles. But the Gentiles who would follow Him are no less sheep than the true sheep of Israel. In fact, Jesus makes it clear that the Gentile sheep would also hear His voice and follow Him, and, eventually, there would be only one flock and one Shepherd. This is the mystery of the universal body of Christ, the church, which Paul refers to in Ephesians 3:6, “This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.” A mystery in Scripture is usually something not revealed previously, and this mystery—one universal church with both Jews and Gentiles brought together in one body in the Messiah—was so shocking to the Pharisees that they accused Jesus of being a demon-possessed lunatic (John 10:20-21).

      Paul’s commission from Christ was to “preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ” (Ephesians 6:8) because the Gentiles, the “other sheep,” needed to be brought into the fold of the true Shepherd. Paul explains in Romans 11:16-36 the mystery of the church by using the imagery of a branch (the Gentiles) being grafted into the tree (Israel). Israel has been temporarily set aside until the “full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). This is occurring now in the Church Age, but eventually both Jews and Gentiles will live in glorious harmony in the Millennial Kingdom and then in eternity when all true sheep will follow their Shepherd forever as one body.
      GotQuestions are a predominately Calvinistic and Lutheran site, but from what you posted, I could agree with it.

      Where Calvinists defer from the truth is, I say anyone can become a sheep if they do what Jesus says to do, but Calvinists say no, rather, Jesus picks people and then causes them to obey him and become sheep.

      Even though I agree with what you posted from a Calvinistic site, I don't agree with the deep underlying reasoning.
      Oh how I love the Word of God!

      Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

        GotQuestions are a predominately Calvinistic and Lutheran site, but from what you posted, I could agree with it.

        Where Calvinists defer from the truth is, I say anyone can become a sheep if they do what Jesus says to do, but Calvinists say no, rather, Jesus picks people and then causes them to obey him and become sheep.

        Even though I agree with what you posted from a Calvinistic site, I don't agree with the deep underlying reasoning.
        That's fine. The truth was posted.
        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

        Jim Elliot

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

          When Jesus came, it was to the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

          Jesus says when he is crucified, then all could come to him to be saved.

          The new covenant which was about faith that Jesus blood washes away your sins wasn't in force until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.

          Jesus is the Lamb of God. The lamb's blood had to be shed for forgiveness of sins.

          No such thing as saved Gentiles while Jesus walked the earth. Jesus had to die and the Gentiles had to repent of their sins and believe.
          Sorry, but according to the Word of God, in the Bible, the Jews did not keep thier word to God.
          MANY TIMES.

          You might not like to think of it this way, but I do.

          God went to the Worst People on the Earth.

          God could have made a pact with North American Indians, Which they would have Kept.

          God made a Pact with Jews, which they BROKE before Moses came down from the mountain.
          (even though God was above them as Fire and Light)

          God Choose the WORST people upon the face of the Earth.
          Not the best.

          You really need to see things as THEY ARE.

          Have you been to Jerusalem?
          It is a SLUM.



          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Child of God View Post

            Sorry, but according to the Word of God, in the Bible, the Jews did not keep thier word to God.
            MANY TIMES.

            You might not like to think of it this way, but I do.

            God went to the Worst People on the Earth.

            God could have made a pact with North American Indians, Which they would have Kept.

            God made a Pact with Jews, which they BROKE before Moses came down from the mountain.
            (even though God was above them as Fire and Light)

            God Choose the WORST people upon the face of the Earth.
            Not the best.

            You really need to see things as THEY ARE.

            Have you been to Jerusalem?
            It is a SLUM.


            You remind me of a person who posts here but got banned named Jacob. Are you Jacob?
            You remind me of him because you both seem to have a learning disability.
            Oh how I love the Word of God!

            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

              Is that your way of saying please tell how to become a sheep according to Jesus?

              How are Gentiles, Canaanites, Samaritans, Greeks, etc, saved if they don't become sheep?

              Jesus called some none Jews 'dogs' and 'pigs'.

              The Jews when disobedient were called 'heifers'.

              We have to be like sheep to be saved.

              We become like sheep when we follow Jesus around and want him more than anything. We have to humble ourselves and be ready to do what ever Jesus wants us to do. We have to have faith and repent of our sins, and call on him to help, just like a child


              Matthew 15

              The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

              21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

              23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

              24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

              25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

              26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

              27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”



              Not all Israelites had faith in God, for obeying the law did NOT have to do with faith, see Galatians 3:12.

              Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

              Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."



              The Jews who were not sheep, they were bound over to the same place as the Gentiles.

              Do you really think that ANY cut off Jews were sheep?

              Do you really think that any Gentiles were sheep?

              The cut off non sheep were put with the Gentiles.


              We have to become sheep to get saved.
              What you are saying isn't scriptural at all.
              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

              Charles Spurgeon !

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                You remind me of a person who posts here but got banned named Jacob. Are you Jacob?
                You remind me of him because you both seem to have a learning disability.
                Now that you mention it...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post

                  Now that you mention it...
                  I know that they probably aren't the same, but it is the same kind of struggle I have when debating them.
                  Oh how I love the Word of God!

                  Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                  Comment

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