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WHICH CHURCH WAS HEBREWS WRITTEN TO?

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  • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You did not answer my questions.





    Your evidence for this baseless claim?



    What covenant?



    Were they not expected to do right to begin with?



    Why was that? Do you know?
    God told Adam and Eve what to do and what would happen if they didn't.



    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post

    What?

    I'm hoping you just misspoke here, and that you're not another person (like NWL) who doesn't know the difference between descendant and ancestor...

    Also, what covenant was made and with whom?
    God’s Covenant With Noah


    9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

    4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

    6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
    by humans shall their blood be shed;
    for in the image of God
    has God made mankind.

    7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”

    8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

    12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

    17 So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      Jesus saying that TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL is completely clear and does not need any clarification.

      NOWHERE does Paul tell a single gentile that they are under the new covenant. Not even ONE single time.

      When Paul speaks of the "cup of blessing", he only mentions the blood and no covenant.

      1Co 10:16 KJV The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

      As I said the BLOOD covers Jew and gentiles alike. The body of Christ is NOT under any covenant.

      You are somehow convinced that the blood requires a covenant, it does NOT.
      1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, IS it not the communion of the BLOOD of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the BODY of Christ?[/COLOR]

      In this very scripture Paul says "the CUP we bless (present tense verb: they drank it as a habit or practice). Where did Christians get this practice FROM. Jesus Himself introduced it on the night before His crucifixion.

      26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.” 27ThenHe tookthe cup,gave thanksand gave itto them,saying,“Drinkfromit,all of you. 28 This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for the forgiveness of sins.…
      (
      Matthew 26:26-27)

      How are men FORGIVEN OF SIN? It can only happen through the CROSS where Jesus allowed His body to be broken and His blood to be poured out for us. That is the only way anyone can be forgiven of their sins. Jesus was Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He did not die so that the Twelve could had a private dinner party in the Coming World but to save multitudes who would believe in Him. The disciples will sit on twelve thrones. That promise was made to them. The bread and cup covered not specific individual rewards but general soteriological promises that anyone who believed could be a part of if they believed in Jesus.
      The fact that His sacrifice would institute a new covenant through the cross should not be controversial. Jesus SAID that the blood He would soon pour out on the cross (represented by the communion cup He had them drink of) was the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT. In your belief system we are expected to pretend that it Jesus did not say this. However, the fact that the Church (Jew and Gentile) all practiced of communion was a reiteration of this truth.
      You act as if entering into a covenant is bondage. The Covenant of the Law was bondage because we could not follow it. The New Covenant is more like a marriage in which love draws two people willingly into a lifelong bond symbolized by the wedding ring.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Shasta View Post

        1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, IS it not the communion of the BLOOD of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the BODY of Christ?[/COLOR]

        In this very scripture Paul says "the CUP we bless (present tense verb: they drank it as a habit or practice). Where did Christians get this practice FROM. Jesus Himself introduced it on the night before His crucifixion.
        Yes, Jesus Himself introduced it on the night before His crucifixion to the TWELVE apostles. They represent ISRAEL. The new covenant is between the SAME two parties as the old covenant (God and ISRAEL), just like Jeremiah says and Hebrews reaffirms.
        All of my ancestors are human.
        Originally posted by Squeaky
        That explains why your an idiot.
        Originally posted by God's Truth
        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
          It was God's plan.
          Best not be innocent then, or you might suffer the same fate /sarc.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
            Best not be innocent then, or you might suffer the same fate /sarc.
            All are going to die; and, there is a chance that all who are Christian could suffer for being one.
            Oh how I love the Word of God!

            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

              All are going to die; and, there is a chance that all who are Christian could suffer for being one.
              And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
              And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
              Matthew 19:16-17

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                Jesus saying that TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL is completely clear and does not need any clarification.

                NOWHERE does Paul tell a single gentile that they are under the new covenant. Not even ONE single time.

                When Paul speaks of the "cup of blessing", he only mentions the blood and no covenant.
                1Co 10:16 KJV The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?



                As I said the BLOOD covers Jew and gentiles alike. The body of Christ is NOT under any covenant.

                You are somehow convinced that the blood requires a covenant, it does NOT.
                I am convinced because that is exactly what Jesus and Paul taught.

                26 Now as they were eating, Jesus, having taken bread and having blessed it, broke it, and having given it to the disciples, He said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”27 And having taken the cup and having given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the covenant, being poured out for MANY, for forgiveness of sins. 29 And I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now until that the day when I drink it anew with you in the kingdom of My Father.” 30 And having sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
                (Matthew 26:26-30)

                …19 And He took the bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20In the same way,aftersupperHe took thecup,saying,Thiscup isthe NEW COVENANTinMyblood,whichis poured outforyou..…
                (Luke 22:20)


                23 For I received from the Lord that which also I delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed, took bread, 24 and having given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 Likewise also the cup after having supped, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you might drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you may eat this bread and may drink the cup, YOU PROCLAIM THE LORD’S DEATH until He should come.
                (1 Corinthians 11:24)
                1. Jesus said the broken bread was His BODY which was TORN when He was scourged and crucified the following day
                2. The fact that they were told to EAT it signified that they would be participants and beneficiaries in what He had accomplished by His sacrifice
                3. When He POURED out the wine Jesus said “this cup is the new covenant in My blood (Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:24)
                4. This shows conclusively that the "new covenant" shows is more than just a contractural agreement. It was a BLOOD COVENANT.
                5. Jesus established His New Covenant ON THE CROSS on the following day
                6. The sacrificial offering of Christ would bring about the FORGIVENESS OF SIN (Matthew 26:28, Isaiah 53:4-6)
                7. The tradition of partaking of the CUP OF THE NEW COVENANT was passed on by Paul (along with the actual words spoken on that night) to the Church at Corinth which was a congregation of saved Jews and Gentiles
                8. Both Jews and Gentiles are connected through this common covenant:Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? (1 Corinthians 10:16-17)
                9. Poured out for MANY The Greek word "many" is πολλοί, which means: many, a large part of mankind hardly a word that would be used to describe 12 individuals.https://biblehub.com/greek/4183.htm
                10. The Covenant Supper was practiced throughout the whole Church beginning with Jesus and continuing until the present day
                11. The communion wine represents the blood of Jesus shed on the cross when He became the sacrificial lamb. Only the blood of Christ can take away sin which is why innumerable multitudes will praise Him for in the Book of Revelation. What I do not understand is how anyone could miss this very simple yet essential piece of theology. Every time Paul mentions the cross he is referring to the cross he was referring to the sacrificial death of Christ. Our COVENANT connection with Him is a result of that event and we celebrate it every time we take the cup.
                12. Paul understood the centrality of the cross both in our initial salvation and in our subsequent sanctification The idea that ALL believers are not partakers of the benefits of the cross runs counter to this message.
                13. Anyone who denies that the eucharist is not THE CUP OF NEW COVENANT is denying what both Paul and Jesus have stated very clearly
                Last edited by Shasta; February 15th, 2020, 02:51 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Shasta View Post

                  I am convinced because that is exactly what Jesus and Paul taught.

                  26 Now as they were eating, Jesus, having taken bread and having blessed it, broke it, and having given it to the disciples, He said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”27 And having taken the cup and having given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the covenant, being poured out for MANY, for forgiveness of sins. 29 And I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now until that the day when I drink it anew with you in the kingdom of My Father.” 30 And having sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
                  (Matthew 26:26-30)

                  …19 And He took the bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20In the same way,aftersupperHe took thecup,saying,Thiscup isthe NEW COVENANTinMyblood,whichis poured outforyou..…
                  (Luke 22:20)


                  23 For I received from the Lord that which also I delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed, took bread, 24 and having given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 Likewise also the cup after having supped, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you might drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you may eat this bread and may drink the cup, YOU PROCLAIM THE LORD’S DEATH until He should come.
                  (1 Corinthians 11:24)
                  1. Jesus said the broken bread was His BODY which was TORN when He was scourged and crucified the following day
                  2. The fact that they were told to EAT it signified that they would be participants and beneficiaries in what He had accomplished by His sacrifice
                  3. When He POURED out the wine Jesus said “this cup is the new covenant in My blood (Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:24)
                  4. This shows conclusively that the "new covenant" shows is more than just a contractural agreement. It was a BLOOD COVENANT.
                  5. Jesus established His New Covenant ON THE CROSS on the following day
                  6. The sacrificial offering of Christ would bring about the FORGIVENESS OF SIN (Matthew 26:28, Isaiah 53:4-6)
                  7. The tradition of partaking of the CUP OF THE NEW COVENANT was passed on by Paul (along with the actual words spoken on that night) to the Church at Corinth which was a congregation of saved Jews and Gentiles
                  8. Both Jews and Gentiles are connected through this common covenant:Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? (1 Corinthians 10:16-17)
                  9. Poured out for MANY The Greek word "many" is πολλοί, which means: many, a large part of mankind hardly a word that would be used to describe 12 individuals.https://biblehub.com/greek/4183.htm
                  10. The Covenant Supper was practiced throughout the whole Church beginning with Jesus and continuing until the present day
                  11. The communion wine represents the blood of Jesus shed on the cross when He became the sacrificial lamb. Only the blood of Christ can take away sin which is why innumerable multitudes will praise Him for in the Book of Revelation. What I do not understand is how anyone could miss this very simple yet essential piece of theology. Every time Paul mentions the cross he is referring to the cross he was referring to the sacrificial death of Christ. Our COVENANT connection with Him is a result of that event and we celebrate it every time we take the cup.
                  12. Paul understood the centrality of the cross both in our initial salvation and in our subsequent sanctification The idea that ALL believers are not partakers of the benefits of the cross runs counter to this message.
                  13. Anyone who denies that the eucharist is not THE CUP OF NEW COVENANT is denying what both Paul and Jesus have stated very clearly
                  Paul never tells any gentiles that they are or need to be under a covenant.

                  God does say that He will make a new covenant with Israel (Jeremiah, Hebrews).

                  There is no new covenant for the body of Christ. There is no need for a covenant to be saved by grace through faith.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                    Paul never tells any gentiles that they are or need to be under a covenant.

                    God does say that He will make a new covenant with Israel (Jeremiah, Hebrews).

                    There is no new covenant for the body of Christ. There is no need for a covenant to be saved by grace through faith.
                    Jesus SAYS his BODY AND BLOOD ARE THE COVENANT.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                      Jesus SAYS his BODY AND BLOOD ARE THE COVENANT.
                      The new testament is what he said not covenant Matthew 26:28 unless you are using one of the unreliable translations out there

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                        Jesus SAYS his BODY AND BLOOD ARE THE COVENANT.
                        That's not exactly what He said. But you do tend to twist His words to force them to "support" your "story".
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DougE View Post

                          The new testament is what he said not covenant Matthew 26:28 unless you are using one of the unreliable translations out there
                          It is the same.
                          Oh how I love the Word of God!

                          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            That's not exactly what He said. But you do tend to twist His words to force them to "support" your "story".
                            Jesus says his body and blood are the new covenant.

                            Matthew 26:28
                            For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

                            1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

                            Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


                            When a person is saved, they repent of their sins and believe that Jesus shed blood on the cross takes away their sins. They are in the covenant with God when they are saved.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                              Paul never tells any gentiles that they are or need to be under a covenant.

                              God does say that He will make a new covenant with Israel (Jeremiah, Hebrews).

                              There is no new covenant for the body of Christ. There is no need for a covenant to be saved by grace through faith.
                              Paul taught the Gentile believers in Corinth to drink of the cup of the New Covenant in His blood Would he have taught them to do that if the New Covenant was only for the subset of Jews living in some future age? Would he say his blood was poured out for MANY if it was only going to benefit 12 people? It is clearly NOT true that God EXCLUDED Gentiles in the body of Christ from being participants in the New Covenant. Drinking of the cup WITH the Jews showed that they were fellow-partakers of that same promise. It does not matter if it is not mentioned in Jeremiah 31, not if the Lord HIMSELF says the Gentiles would be part of the covenant.

                              16 Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a PARTICIPATION in the BLOOD OF CHRIST? And is not the bread that we break a PARTICIPATION in the BODY OF CHRIST?
                              17 Because there isoneloaf,we who aremanyareonebody;forWE ALL PARTAKE OF ONE LOAF.18 Consider the people of Israel: Are not those who eat the sacrifices FELLOW PARTAKERS in the altar?
                              (1 Corinthians 10:16-17)

                              The only reason believing Gentiles could be a part of ONE BODY with believing Jews is because both groups share the benefits of a common sacrifice - that of Jesus the Lamb of God. Partaking of ONE bread and ONE blood makes the groups one. For us, the ALTAR where the Lamb was sacrificed was THE CROSS. To reject the meaning of the cup of the new covenant in his blood is equivalent to rejecting the cross where His flesh was torn and His blood was poured out.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                                That's not exactly what He said. But you do tend to twist His words to force them to "support" your "story".
                                What Jesus said was that the CUP of the New Covenant would be created by means of His torn body and poured out blood

                                Comment

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