66 book Bible still stands. Ub can never refute God's words no matter how hard they tried. Unfamiliar dark celestials made up stories and Suger-coated the truths.
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
66 book Bible still stands. Ub can never refute God's words no matter how hard they tried. Unfamiliar dark celestials made up stories and Suger-coated the truths.
Try all you want, the Bible is mans word about God, it has many factual and conceptual errors. Besides, you are dishonest yourself, maybe you have a demon?
I've seen proofs but I rather you use faith to believe it. Looks like you haven't received it, yet. Hopefully someday you will.
At least I'm honest.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Understanding contradictions in religious records......
Understanding contradictions in religious records......
Well,....it would be a combination of both, but understanding why needs to be considered. The bible does have contradictions; - this doesn't necessarily discredit what meaning or value the book has, only that human authors are imperfect and have employed the texts for their own purpose, plan and agendas. - also passages may have been 're-worked' (doctored) when needed to, again, serve the purpose of the writers. This is isn't a conspiracy theory, but a recognition of human invention. Inspiration can still filter thru human mediums of course, but consider the 'filters'. Even the UB accepts that the science knowledge it shares being taken from human sources at that time, will in the future need correction with advancing scientific discoveries. The religious/spiritual concepts, values and principles are however timeless, they will continue to keep their essential substance, enhanced by further understanding and insight as man's soul becomes more spiritually perfected. - life, creation, consciousness continues to evolve. Revelation is progressive.
See: contradictions in the bible - this is important, see Dr. Steven DiMattei's introduction here and how he is treating his biblical studies, which considers the textual traditions and their differences, understanding the authors of the texts and what they were trying to communicate, letting the texts speak for themselves. This allows one to understand why 'contradictions' exist. Other than that, I don't see either a 'theist' or 'atheist' agenda behind the study, except an honest study of the textual traditions and what they reveal.
Now concerning the Bible contradicting a person,...that would depend on the propositional-context. A contradiction or an irrational/immoral passage or teaching in the bible might offend a person's conscience, because they feel that teaching is unethical, obsolete, no longer revelant to our modern day age(it may or may not be). In this case, is it the text itself or the person that is being unsound or unreasonable? In these cases we have to review the texts in mind, and the disposition and analysis of the persons judging the texts. The same goes for the UB, there are parts that some may have a problem with or remain uninterested in, while much still remains a subject of genuine interest from which that person enjoys researching and expounding on (such as my own case).
All religious writings are conducted thru human vessels, or 'mediums',....we've already been thru this before,....and those human instruments are NOT perfect. The UB revelators admit to using the human knowledge sources existing at the time of transmission in some of the papers, being re-edited as it were, expanded upon, etc. This does not discount the discourses because they still have meaning and value as much as they relate and communicate their purpose for the reader. Other places in the UB have papers that are quite unique and one of a kind in their terms, details and presentation, there being no previous human knowledge existing about those particular names and subjects. Its a very diverse collection of papers on different subjects.
Truth is truth wherever it is found, and its not limited to anyone book or collection of books, or even one particular library of books! The knowledge/glory/wisdom of 'God' is INFINITE. - our engagement with the Creator and Creation is ever expanding, evolving, on-going. Awesome isn't it?
Understanding contradictions in religious records......
Well,....it would be a combination of both, but understanding why needs to be considered. The bible does have contradictions; - this doesn't necessarily discredit what meaning or value the book has, only that human authors are imperfect and have employed the texts for their own purpose, plan and agendas. - also passages may have been 're-worked' (doctored) when needed to, again, serve the purpose of the writers. This is isn't a conspiracy theory, but a recognition of human invention. Inspiration can still filter thru human mediums of course, but consider the 'filters'. Even the UB accepts that the science knowledge it shares being taken from human sources at that time, will in the future need correction with advancing scientific discoveries. The religious/spiritual concepts, values and principles are however timeless, they will continue to keep their essential substance, enhanced by further understanding and insight as man's soul becomes more spiritually perfected. - life, creation, consciousness continues to evolve. Revelation is progressive.
See: contradictions in the bible - this is important, see Dr. Steven DiMattei's introduction here and how he is treating his biblical studies, which considers the textual traditions and their differences, understanding the authors of the texts and what they were trying to communicate, letting the texts speak for themselves. This allows one to understand why 'contradictions' exist. Other than that, I don't see either a 'theist' or 'atheist' agenda behind the study, except an honest study of the textual traditions and what they reveal.
Now concerning the Bible contradicting a person,...that would depend on the propositional-context. A contradiction or an irrational/immoral passage or teaching in the bible might offend a person's conscience, because they feel that teaching is unethical, obsolete, no longer revelant to our modern day age(it may or may not be). In this case, is it the text itself or the person that is being unsound or unreasonable? In these cases we have to review the texts in mind, and the disposition and analysis of the persons judging the texts. The same goes for the UB, there are parts that some may have a problem with or remain uninterested in, while much still remains a subject of genuine interest from which that person enjoys researching and expounding on (such as my own case).
All religious writings are conducted thru human vessels, or 'mediums',....we've already been thru this before,....and those human instruments are NOT perfect. The UB revelators admit to using the human knowledge sources existing at the time of transmission in some of the papers, being re-edited as it were, expanded upon, etc. This does not discount the discourses because they still have meaning and value as much as they relate and communicate their purpose for the reader. Other places in the UB have papers that are quite unique and one of a kind in their terms, details and presentation, there being no previous human knowledge existing about those particular names and subjects. Its a very diverse collection of papers on different subjects.
Truth is truth wherever it is found, and its not limited to anyone book or collection of books, or even one particular library of books! The knowledge/glory/wisdom of 'God' is INFINITE. - our engagement with the Creator and Creation is ever expanding, evolving, on-going. Awesome isn't it?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Again, no need to claim biblical inerrancy or infallibility since that 'belief' is wholly conjectural and apologetic in nature,...since a claim of perfection with any religious writing by men, is unnecessary. Inspiration and revelation is given to men in different dispensations because of the evolutional nature of existence itself, in this realm of space-time, since this realm of conditional existence is subject to change, adaptation, innovation. There is therefore no need or logic to defend or worship a 'golden calf', anymore than worshipping the mere words of a religious book as if those words themselves are 'God'. 'God' is Spirit. Truth is a living dynamic reality communicated in the NOW, and the perception or unfolding of truth is 'progressive' in that sense,...since it is not static, but living.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Trolling fun.............
Trolling fun.............
- I don't recall calling you a 'troll' in this specific address,...but if the shoe fits. I have no problem with anyone praising 'God' or any writings that glorify God truly. The UB presents itself as an epochal revelation for this current dispensation, it will naturally then correct, enhance and expand upon previous revelations. Remember the NT came along, and pretty much dispensed with much of the OT! - but only kept the parts that were relevant and supporting of its own religious truth claims. See how that works? :think: - in any case,...we have the concept of 'progressive revelation' coming thru. Orthodox Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah, and therefore consider the NT as superfluous. They don't accept the 'new revelation' or 'rennovation' of their original faith-tradition being 'Christianized', which is what appears to them to have happened. Orthodox Jews have their share of 'counter-missonary' ministries, because they are wholly convinced from their own Jewish scriptures and traditions, that the NT is not from YHWH. - but Christian bible believers still carry around the Torah in their bibles, because without that 'root', their branch has no bearing. - quite a conundrum eh? - likewise the UB respects and acknowledges the past dispensations of evolutional progress and revelation, but adds MORE. Remember one of God's names in the OT is 'Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh', which traditionally is translated "I Am", but has a meaning emphasis that is more futuristic, generative, dynamically active....as in "I Will what I will be",...so this generative sense is the Infinite Spirit bringing into being, causing TO BE, unfolding the divine will-potential via creation, manifesting it in space and time. In this way, 'God' is ever inter-acting, engaging within CREATION, as the creative active principle and personality, orchestrating and presiding thru-out.
Again, if you read at least the first 10 papers (not a monumental task to undertake)....you'll find that the UB certainly qualifies as a subject for discussion in the 'Religion' section of a theological forum, since its theology is fundamentally 'theist'. Whether you take it as religious fiction, sci-fi spirituality, cosmic far-out-ness, or zany cosmology,...you're still presented with the significant religious questions, ideals, concepts and principles that the papers elaborate and expand upon, and how this relates to our present circumstance, what kind of 'religion' we undertake as individuals and a society today and how this affects our spiritual evolution, our progression in the divine plan of the ages. These are all pertinent. Many religionists read both the Bible and UB together, its not a 'either/or' situation, but a 'both/and' endeavor of study....since 'God' is the One Universal Power and Presence. There is One Ocean, but many rivers.
Trolling fun.............
- I don't recall calling you a 'troll' in this specific address,...but if the shoe fits. I have no problem with anyone praising 'God' or any writings that glorify God truly. The UB presents itself as an epochal revelation for this current dispensation, it will naturally then correct, enhance and expand upon previous revelations. Remember the NT came along, and pretty much dispensed with much of the OT! - but only kept the parts that were relevant and supporting of its own religious truth claims. See how that works? :think: - in any case,...we have the concept of 'progressive revelation' coming thru. Orthodox Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah, and therefore consider the NT as superfluous. They don't accept the 'new revelation' or 'rennovation' of their original faith-tradition being 'Christianized', which is what appears to them to have happened. Orthodox Jews have their share of 'counter-missonary' ministries, because they are wholly convinced from their own Jewish scriptures and traditions, that the NT is not from YHWH. - but Christian bible believers still carry around the Torah in their bibles, because without that 'root', their branch has no bearing. - quite a conundrum eh? - likewise the UB respects and acknowledges the past dispensations of evolutional progress and revelation, but adds MORE. Remember one of God's names in the OT is 'Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh', which traditionally is translated "I Am", but has a meaning emphasis that is more futuristic, generative, dynamically active....as in "I Will what I will be",...so this generative sense is the Infinite Spirit bringing into being, causing TO BE, unfolding the divine will-potential via creation, manifesting it in space and time. In this way, 'God' is ever inter-acting, engaging within CREATION, as the creative active principle and personality, orchestrating and presiding thru-out. Again, if you read at least the first 10 papers (not a monumental task to undertake)....you'll find that the UB certainly qualifies as a subject for discussion in the 'Religion' section of a theological forum, since its theology is fundamentally 'theist'. Whether you take it as religious fiction, sci-fi spirituality, cosmic far-out-ness, or zany cosmology,...you're still presented with the significant religious questions, ideals, concepts and principles that the papers elaborate and expand upon, and how this relates to our present circumstance, what kind of 'religion' we undertake as individuals and a society today and how this affects our spiritual evolution, our progression in the divine plan of the ages. These are all pertinent. Many religionists read both the Bible and UB together, its not a 'either/or' situation, but a 'both/and' endeavor of study....since 'God' is the One Universal Power and Presence. There is One Ocean, but many rivers.
God's words are as is . No needing anything
Read them long time ago. Why read them again when I have God's owns words?
Again, if you read at least the first 10 papers (not a monumental task to undertake)....you'll find that the UB certainly qualifies as a subject for discussion in the 'Religion' section of a theological forum, since its theology is fundamentally 'theist'. Whether you take it as religious fiction, sci-fi spirituality, cosmic far-out-ness, or zany cosmology,...you're still presented with the significant religious questions, ideals, concepts and principles that the papers elaborate and expand upon, and how this relates to our present circumstance, what kind of 'religion' we undertake as individuals and a society today and how this affects our spiritual evolution, our progression in the divine plan of the ages. These are all pertinent. Many religionists read both the Bible and UB together, its not a 'either/or' situation, but a 'both/and' endeavor of study....since 'God' is the One Universal Power and Presence. There is One Ocean, but many rivers.
I'm sure Eve was a very bright smart woman but the snake managed to trick and decieve her with a apple. Don't let celestials deceived you with a ub
Last edited:
The Urantia Book*should be treated with the same spiritual disdain as the prophecies of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce and some of the other New Age and celestial spirit-inspired revelations. They said they were honest
Jesus told us to reject false prophets, not the true ones. More has been revealed.
“And Yahweh regretted that he had made mankind on the earth and he was grieved to his heart” (Gen 6:6).
later editors changed their minds
“God is not a man that he would lie, or a human being that he would regret.” Numbers 23:19
66 book has the final version.
Piper: “All knowledge from every other source pays homage to what God says. His word is the test of all things.”
Being the word of man about the doings of God, it's understandable that there are so many blatant contradictions among the multiple authors. And considering you have been indoctrinated with the doctrine of inerrancy of the scriptures, it's understandable that you are to proud to aknowlege it.
You never recieved faith, yet.
I was born again 31 years ago. I have faith in God, you just have no defense for the errors in the Bible so you make stuff up.
Strange Preacher
New member
Hi Caino, I managed to arrive 13 years before you! I'm a UB reader, as you know, but your comment has been making me itch since I first read it. I don't know the thread history between you guys but it's fairly clear that animosity is the keynote. Perhaps I'm repeating myself but as I read this chap's texts I see several other possibilities driving his responses. Biblical hardliners are very tightly boxed in their respective traditions. Very often LOYALTY to the faith is prized higher than insight as few ever rise to the rank of biblical scholar. Hence the actions of many of the humble faithful is born of loyalty to the one's that first brought them to saving faith. This guy could be a hypocritic, or just trolling, but I have my doubts - his comments (insofar as I have read them) do not indicate hypocrisy. He may well resent your attitude, your proclivity to patronise him and his beliefs, and his comments could be born of that sense of defensive resentment and loyalty more than to cowardly evasion, hypocrisy, or trolling. Errors, for hardliners, usually come with the consequence of damnation. Even entertaining the idea carries with it the consequence of damnation. This, more than anything, usually drives resistance. Does not the UB teach that we can all profit from the religious teachings of other traditions? That we would be better served looking for the best in a tradition than focusing on the worst? Focusing on what we share more than what divides us? To focus on embellishing the truths they contain the condemning the error? Are we not asked to love each other as Jesus loves us - regardless of our differences in beliefs, our levels of insight, or level of spiritual attainment? Is not our love for our fellows the true measure of our grasp of the essence of the truth of the Kin-dom? Are we not specifically asked to "strive not" with men? That we should not succumb to the delusion that we can BEAT our fellows in to the Kin-dom by eloquence or clever argument? I know we are asked to stand in vigorous defense of truth but we are also admonished to "wipe the dust from our feet" should it become apparent that our gospel will not be received by people. One thing is certain, you won't win this man through point scoring and quibbling. If he has found salvation in his tradition you will not prise him from it by intellectual force. Apologies if I'm WAY off base here.
Strange Preacher
New member
By the way, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick entirely and am being too idealistic. That this thread would die a quick death if you didn't respond to the swipes. I'm new to this arrangement so please bear with me. [emoji6]
- Status