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William Barr: Religion is Under Attack

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Derf View Post
    How would you know, since the mere association seems to be the problem?
    Bolton seems to have refused to sell out his personal beliefs and ethics. So he didn't last long. Jeff Sessions made it out of the administration without Trump sliming him to any significant extent.

    Those are exceptions that prove the rule.
    This message is hidden because ...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
      Trying to force others to comply with one's prejudices or beliefs, for example. Pressuring others to sexual practices that are sinful. Things like that.
      So you would disagree with Drag Queen Story Hour and similar activities?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Rusha View Post
        He was wise enough to leave with his reputation still intact rather than selling out to the highest bidder ...
        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
        Don't remember anything in particular. Notice that his corrupt behavior has to do with obstruction of a Constitutionally-provided Congressional impeachment investigation. So he was never in that position, previously.

        (Barbarian checks)

        There's a lot of allegations that Barr was involved (during the Reagan administration) in the transfer of weapons to Iran as ransom for the American hostages held by Iran. Reagan ultimately admitted that the ransom was paid, but there has never been any solid proof that Barr had a significant role in that, or in the laundering of money that was later funneled to the Contras.

        Iran/Contra had many criminals in the Reagan administration who ultimately were exposed and jailed/pardoned/forced out of government, but Barr was not one of them. I'd be open to any evidence that he should have been, but I don't see that anyone has such evidence.
        My point, Rusha, is that if you read further down in the Wiki article (or other sources), which Barbarian seems to have done, he doesn't seem to have been so angelic as you seem to think he was--according to the same Wiki article I quoted from.

        If he was somehow culpable during the Reagan years, it hardly seems like Joe Biden and friends would have approved him so heartily the first time.

        Something HAS changed between 1991 and 2019. Homosexual groups have insisted on teaching our children about homosexuality, and trying to paint it in a good light. That's what Mr. Barr was complaining about. The New Jersey law "requires that middle and high school students learn about the social, political and economic contributions of LBGT individuals, but leaves it up to local districts to determine how to teach those lessons." (from northjersey.com)

        Personally, I don't think this law does anything at all except try to appease a group that Barbarian admits is in sin, and the push for the law is the greater one in his opinion, since it tries to introduce the sin of homosexuality to children in a positive light.

        The reason it doesn't do anything useful is that the accomplishments of homosexuals have always been taught. Who doesn't know about Alexander the Great or Nero Caesar or King James I? The part that was missing is not their accomplishments, but their sexual preferences. So the law's only addition to real history or politics, etc., is to bring to the mind of children the idea of homosexuality.

        Do you think that is healthy? Do you think it is a good idea to focus on the deviant sexual preferences of historical and political figures? Would it be ok, in your mind, if the New Jersey school teachers made much of Nero's homosexuality as they described his penchant for lighting people on fire and hanging them in the streets for torches?

        As long as it goes like this, I'm not really opposed to the law:

        Teacher: "Class, today I want to tell you about Nero. He was a homosexual, and he was so very cruel to people he disagreed with, that refused to acknowledge him as a god. No doubt, he was deranged, which may very well be part and parcel with homosexuality."

        Students: "Wow, Teacher! I'd sure like to be like Nero!! Do you know any Christians I can torch?"

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Derf View Post
          My point, Rusha, is that if you read further down in the Wiki article (or other sources), which Barbarian seems to have done, he doesn't seem to have been so angelic as you seem to think he was--according to the same Wiki article I quoted from.

          If he was somehow culpable during the Reagan years, it hardly seems like Joe Biden and friends would have approved him so heartily the first time.

          Something HAS changed between 1991 and 2019. Homosexual groups have insisted on teaching our children about homosexuality, and trying to paint it in a good light. That's what Mr. Barr was complaining about. The New Jersey law "requires that middle and high school students learn about the social, political and economic contributions of LBGT individuals, but leaves it up to local districts to determine how to teach those lessons." (from northjersey.com)

          Personally, I don't think this law does anything at all except try to appease a group that Barbarian admits is in sin, and the push for the law is the greater one in his opinion, since it tries to introduce the sin of homosexuality to children in a positive light.

          The reason it doesn't do anything useful is that the accomplishments of homosexuals have always been taught. Who doesn't know about Alexander the Great or Nero Caesar or King James I? The part that was missing is not their accomplishments, but their sexual preferences. So the law's only addition to real history or politics, etc., is to bring to the mind of children the idea of homosexuality.

          Do you think that is healthy? Do you think it is a good idea to focus on the deviant sexual preferences of historical and political figures? Would it be ok, in your mind, if the New Jersey school teachers made much of Nero's homosexuality as they described his penchant for lighting people on fire and hanging them in the streets for torches?

          As long as it goes like this, I'm not really opposed to the law:

          Teacher: "Class, today I want to tell you about Nero. He was a homosexual, and he was so very cruel to people he disagreed with, that refused to acknowledge him as a god. No doubt, he was deranged, which may very well be part and parcel with homosexuality."

          Students: "Wow, Teacher! I'd sure like to be like Nero!! Do you know any Christians I can torch?"
          How very interesting... and irrelevant. IF Barr wishes to advocate for religious values, he needs to find a different messenger to relay the message. He has confused his own character with Christian values. He is known by the company he keeps.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Rusha View Post
            How very interesting... and irrelevant. IF Barr wishes to advocate for religious values, he needs to find a different messenger to relay the message. He has confused his own character with Christian values. He is known by the company he keeps.
            I guess I'm misunderstanding your complaint. Who is Mr. Barr's "messenger" in advocating for religious values? Jerry's post talked about Mr. Barr delivering a message to some people at Notre Dame. A message is usually delivered by the "messenger". Are you saying that Mr. Barr is not allowed to be his own messenger? That he must get someone else to "relay the message"?

            Or are you saying that Mr. Barr is not allowed to have a message at all, whether delivered by himself or someone else? Such would be an odd requirement, given the statement above your avatar: "Censorship is the height of vanity".

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
              Bolton seems to have refused to sell out his personal beliefs and ethics. So he didn't last long. Jeff Sessions made it out of the administration without Trump sliming him to any significant extent.

              Those are exceptions that prove the rule.
              Which of Bolton's or Session's beliefs/ethics would they have had to sell out if they stayed?

              Comment


              • #37
                So homosexuals who flaunt their sin, and work at forcing Christian people to bow to their sin and accept it, are "doing their best". Doing their best to what? Entrench their sin into society as a whole? They certainly aren't showing any repentance for their sin and reformation, i.e. stopping their sinful behavior. To even suggest that they are "doing their best" to overcome is what I would call a gigantic whopper of a lie.
                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                “One and God make a majority.”
                ― Frederick Douglass

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Derf View Post
                  Which of Bolton's or Session's beliefs/ethics would they have had to sell out if they stayed?
                  Bolton would likely have dragged Trump across his desk, if he had told Bolton to betray the Kurds.

                  And Sessions would have had to withdraw his recusal in the Mueller investigation.

                  Neither of them are necessarily shining examples of government ethics, but they did have limits.
                  This message is hidden because ...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Derf View Post
                    So you would disagree with Drag Queen Story Hour and similar activities?
                    Yeah, I would. Although transvestites are usually heterosexuals.

                    How many public school districts have you found that have "drag queen story hour?"

                    Me neither.
                    This message is hidden because ...

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                      Yeah, I would. Although transvestites are usually heterosexuals.

                      How many public school districts have you found that have "drag queen story hour?"

                      Me neither.
                      From a quick google search:
                      Bring DQSH to Your School – Drag Queen Story Hour
                      https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org › nyc › school
                      Looking for a fun and dynamic way to teach your class about gender diversity? Drag queens trained by children's librarians read picture books, sing songs, and ...


                      and from the Brooklyn Public Library's web site:

                      What do drag queens and children have in common? They love dressing up and all things sparkly and fancy!
                      Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH) is just what it sounds like—drag queens reading stories to children in libraries, schools, and bookstores. Drag Queen Story Hour captures the imagination and play of the gender fluidity in childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models.




                      Apparently you didn't look too hard. But notice the purpose: to give kids a positive view of queer role models. Isn't this what you called "Trying to force others to comply with one's prejudices or beliefs, for example. Pressuring others to sexual practices that are sinful. Things like that." Isn't that what Barr was trying to speak out against--Homosexuals forcing others to comply with their own prejudices and beliefs?

                      If Barr spoke out against something you think is bad, why do you oppose his message?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                        Bolton would likely have dragged Trump across his desk, if he had told Bolton to betray the Kurds.

                        And Sessions would have had to withdraw his recusal in the Mueller investigation.

                        Neither of them are necessarily shining examples of government ethics, but they did have limits.
                        What are shining examples of government ethics?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Derf View Post
                          What are shining examples of government ethics?
                          Upholding one's oath of office.
                          This message is hidden because ...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Derf View Post
                            From a quick google search:
                            Bring DQSH to Your School – Drag Queen Story Hour
                            https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org › nyc › school
                            Looking for a fun and dynamic way to teach your class about gender diversity? Drag queens trained by children's librarians read picture books, sing songs, and ...
                            Your site didn't name any public schools. Do you have something that actually shows this went on at a public school?

                            and from the Brooklyn Public Library's web site:
                            This one didn't name any public schools, either. That's what I told you. Public libraries are not public schools and operate under different rules, since they are not exclusively for children.

                            Apparently you didn't look too carefully.

                            If Barr spoke out against something you think is bad
                            He proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas. Which is contrary to American values and to the rules of his own faith.

                            He can speak out on his own time, apart from his duties as the AG, and he's perfectly O.K. When he advocates using government to enforce his beliefs, he's not a good American, and not a good Christian.

                            why do you oppose his message?
                            Because I'm an American and a Christian.
                            This message is hidden because ...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                              He proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas. Which is contrary to American values and to the rules of his own faith.
                              I did not see that. Would you please quote his words where he said that he proposed using the government to enforce his religious ideas?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                For example, New Jersey recently passed a law requiring schools to adopt a LGBT curriculum that many feel is inconsistent with traditional Christian teaching," Barr said
                                He would like to stop anything that supports the God-given rights of people he doesn't like. And yes, God gives you the freedom to sin, if you are determined to do so. But that's not what this is about. The curriculum teaches that LGBT people are entitled by the Constitution to the same rights everyone else enjoys.

                                That's what has him worked up.
                                This message is hidden because ...

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