William Barr: Religion is Under Attack

Jerry Shugart

New member
NOTRE DAME, Ind. (WNDU) - United States Attorney General William Barr spoke at Notre Dame Law School about religious freedom Friday.

Law students, the De Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture group, and invited guests listened to Barr speak.

For the last five decades, Barr said religion has been under attack, adding the secular culture is growing.

"Modern secularists dismiss this idea of morality as otherworldly superstition imposed by a killjoy clergy; but, in fact, Judeo-Christian moral standards are the ultimate utilitarian for human conduct," Barr said.

He even claimed secular values are being forced on people, especially students.

"For example, New Jersey recently passed a law requiring schools to adopt a LGBT curriculum that many feel is inconsistent with traditional Christian teaching," Barr said.

Barr, a devout Catholic, said the "traditional order is shaken" and encouraged the crowd to keep faith and values alive.

"In other words, religion helps frame a moral culture within society that instills and reinforces moral discipline," he said.

Meanwhile, outside the courtroom, around 40 people took to the streets to protest Barr's visit to Notre Dame.

"I heard Notre Dame was hosting Bill Barr for a talk at the law school, and by inviting Bill Barr here, Notre Dame has become complicit within this impeachment conversation," protester Anne Crafton said.

Protesters were blowing whistles in reference to the whistleblower in the impeachment inquiry.

"It's unacceptable what [President Donald] Trump has been doing. He's committing treasonous acts, and I am here to show my support for impeachment," Crafton said.

Back in the courtroom, Barr made a promise in his closing remarks:

"I can assure you that as long as I am attorney general, that the Department of Justice will be at the forefront of this effort, ready to fight for the most cherished of all our American liberties: the freedom to live according to our faith," he said.
 

The Barbarian

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If he was a "devout Catholic", he would be following Catholic values:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

He may be culturally Christian, but he's failed to practice it.
 

The Barbarian

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Do you actually respect those who practice homosexual sexual practices?

As I would any other sinner. And we are all sinners. Unless you're a member of the "my sins are nicer than your sins" club.

If Barr was a practicing Catholic, he would follow Christian teaching about this:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church

I would respect any homosexual if he abstained from homosexual sexual practices but otherwise "no" respect is due them.

A celibate homosexual is as praiseworthy as a celibate single heterosexual. But we are all sinners. Nevertheless, we are to treat our fellow humans with care and respect.
 

quip

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Do you actually respect those who practice homosexual sexual practices?

I would respect any homosexual if he abstained from homosexual sexual practices but otherwise "no" respect is due them.

....and YOU are actually befuddled by the motivations begetting this "attack" upon religion?

Astounding!
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
If Barr was a practicing Catholic, he would follow Christian teaching about this:

That is not "Christian" teaching! Here is actual Christian teaching:

"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error" (Ro.1:27).​

Of course the "due pentalty" handed out by the LORD God was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"
(Jude 7).​

That is what the LORD God thinks of homosexuality but there are some people within the church at Rome who demand that homosexuals who practice sinful acts should be respected!

But we are all sinners. Nevertheless, we are to treat our fellow humans with care and respect.

You can treat them with respect but I cannot since most of the homosexuals flaunt their sinfulness until it almost becomes a badge of honor. And you are one of the people in "bold" which Paul speaks of here:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"
(Ro.2:14-15).​

I am indeed a sinner but I do not flaunt my sins but instead I judge myself in regard to those sins so that I will not be judged (1 Cor.11:31-32).
 

The Barbarian

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That is not "Christian" teaching!

That's what it is. And yes, you may decide that your sins are nicer than theirs, but God isn't buying that story.

You can treat them with respect

Jesus treated adulterers, tax collectors, and heretics with respect. You know who he didn't treat with respect? Holier-than-thou Pharisees. There's a lesson for us, there.

but I cannot since most of the homosexuals flaunt their sinfulness until it almost becomes a badge of honor.

And how is an adulterer like Donald Trump different than that? The Church isn't for the perfect, or for the ones who flaunt their sins; it's for sinners trying to do better.

And you are one of the people in "bold" which Paul speaks of here:

No, you've completely misunderstood what Paul is saying here. He's pointing out that there is a natural law which God gives to everyone, even nonbelievers, and they are judged by that law.

I am indeed a sinner but I do not flaunt my sins but instead I judge myself in regard to those sins so that I will not be judged (1 Cor.11:31-32).

So how are your sins nicer than those of homosexuals,who are also struggling to do better?
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
So how are your sins nicer than those of homosexuals,who are also struggling to do better?

You completely ignored the LORD's judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"
(Jude 7).

You excuse their behavior but the LORD destroyed them because of their immoral sexual practices.

In what way are the homosexuals who continue in their disgusting sexual practices "struggling to do better"?
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Those who deny the word of God in some things, deny the word of God in all things. There is no middle ground. What God has once condemned He never afterward approves. God changes not. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Those who approve of what God condemns are at war with God.

Leviticus 18: [SIZE=+1]22[/SIZE]Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
[SIZE=+1]23[/SIZE] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
[SIZE=+1]24[/SIZE] Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
[SIZE=+1]25[/SIZE] And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
[SIZE=+1]26[/SIZE] Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
[SIZE=+1]27[/SIZE] (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; )
[SIZE=+1]28[/SIZE] That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
[SIZE=+1]29[/SIZE] For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
[SIZE=+1]30[/SIZE] Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
 

Derf

Well-known member
So how are your sins nicer than those of homosexuals,who are also struggling to do better?

Hey Barb, is that comma intentional?

Seems like with the comma, you are saying that all homosexuals are trying to do better, and I ask in what way do you think all homosexuals are trying to do better--as in trying not to have homosexual relations anymore? I don't see that.

Without the comma, you would seem to be asking if Jerry's sins are nicer than only the homosexuals who are trying to do better, and I would admit the question is valid. Anyone repenting ("trying to do better") would have equal status with anyone else who is trying to do better ("repenting").

But both of these options seem to require that the homosexual be in the process of "trying to do better"/repenting in order to be compared favorably with Jerry and his sins. Do you believe that with regard to homosexuality? In other words, do you believe that homosexuality is a sin in need of repentance?

Or do homosexuals only need to be repenting/doing better with non-homosexual sins?

Derf
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
Banned
"I can assure you that as long as I am attorney general, that the Department of Justice will be at the forefront of this effort, ready to fight for the most cherished of all our American liberties: the freedom to live according to our faith," he said.


Dog whistle to mobilize the religious right - religion is always "under attack," therefore vote to protect your corrupt political messiah, Donald Trump, and his feckless, corrupt administration, including Barr who seems quite willing to be Trump's Roy Cohn. Not sure how you fit "devout Catholic" in with that...
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Dog whistle to mobilize the religious right - religion is always "under attack," therefore vote to protect your corrupt political messiah, Donald Trump, and his feckless, corrupt administration, including Barr who seems quite willing to be Trump's Roy Cohn. Not sure how you fit "devout Catholic" in with that...

You make false charges against Barr because he is going to prove the corruption within the Democrat party in short order. And Friday we will begin to see just how corrupt the Obama Justice Department was.

But of course you progressives actually believe that the meeting between Bill Clinton and Obama's head of the Justice Department, Loretta Lynch, on the tarmac at the airport in Phoenix had nothing to do with the investigation of Hillary's emails.

Then you accuse Barr of being corrupt even though he had a sterling reputation and was confirmed by the Senate, with Democrats Senators Doug Jones of Alabama, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona and Joe Manchin III of West Virginia voting to confirm him.

Friday begins a nightmare for the Dems which will last past 2020 when Trump will be re-elected!

Can you spell F-I-S-A?
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
And anna keeps on blowing the socialist dog whistle about how conservatives are the ones who are always "attacking" the left. LOL. The attacks come from the left on a regular basis. More than two years of Russia hoax, and now dni whistle blower hoax. One manufactured hoax after another.

Oh, and the Trump is keeping kids in cages you wouldn't keep a dog in. LOL. Trump has made sure accommodations for the illegals are far better than the Obama admin did. The pictures showing dirty facilities on the news have been the pictures taken during Obama's presidency. Oh, but who cares about a little thing like truth....
 

Derf

Well-known member
Barr who seems quite willing to be Trump's Roy Cohn.

If so, then he would be expected to be more accommodating to homosexuals, since Cohn was one according to Wikipedia (quoting Jeffrey Toobin quoting Roger Stone: ) "Roy was not gay. He was a man who liked having sex with men. Gays were weak, effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blond boys around. It just wasn't discussed. He was interested in power and access."

Hmmm..."power and access"--everybody's downfall, including Satan's.

I suppose Barr has had a conversion since he was George H. W. Bush's Roy Cohn in 1991-1993?

More from Wikipedia (which is not usually so enthralled with conservatives):

Barr enjoyed a "sterling reputation" among Republican and Democratic politicians alike.[26] His two-day confirmation hearing was "unusually placid", and he was received well by both Republicans and Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee.[27] Asked whether he thought a constitutional right to privacy included the right to an abortion, Barr responded that he believed the constitution was not originally intended to create a right to abortion; that Roe v. Wade was thus wrongly decided; and that abortion should be a "legitimate issue for state legislators".[27] "Barr also said at the hearings that Roe v. Wade was 'the law of the land' and claimed he did not have 'fixed or settled views' on abortion."[28] Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Joe Biden, though disagreeing with Barr, responded that it was the "first candid answer" he had heard from a nominee on a question that witnesses would normally evade; Biden hailed Barr as "a throwback to the days when we actually had attorneys general that would talk to you."[29] Barr was approved unanimously by the Senate Judiciary Committee, was confirmed by voice vote by the full Senate,[30][31] and was sworn in as Attorney General on November 26, 1991.[32]



The point, of course, is that Barr was considered prime Attorney General material in 1991 by folks like Joe Biden, so the question must be asked: Who changed?
 

The Barbarian

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Hey Barb, is that comma intentional?

Seems like with the comma, you are saying that all homosexuals are trying to do better, and I ask in what way do you think all homosexuals are trying to do better--as in trying not to have homosexual relations anymore? I don't see that.

Without the comma, you would seem to be asking if Jerry's sins are nicer than only the homosexuals who are trying to do better, and I would admit the question is valid. Anyone repenting ("trying to do better") would have equal status with anyone else who is trying to do better ("repenting").

Good point. And yes, anyone who is trying to deal with his sins, deserves our respect and support, even if they fail every now and then. That's what God's Church is for; sinners who want to do better.

Anyone who blatantly flaunts his sin is either horribly misled or intentionally evil. One deserves our pity and one deserves our disgust. Neither of them, unless they impose their sins on other people, should lose the rights that are observed in the Bill of Rights.

But both of these options seem to require that the homosexual be in the process of "trying to do better"/repenting in order to be compared favorably with Jerry and his sins.

I assume Jerry is trying to do better, so yes. But even if he wasn't, I would defend his rights and argue against any unjust discrimination against him. Assuming he doesn't impose his sins on others, of course.

Do you believe that with regard to homosexuality? In other words, do you believe that homosexuality is a sin in need of repentance?

It's no sin to be a homosexual. It's a sin to act on it.
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
Banned
The point, of course, is that Barr was considered prime Attorney General material in 1991 by folks like Joe Biden, so the question must be asked: Who changed?

I'd venture to say that most in the GOP have changed in an attempt to justify their support of Trump. Do you remember what Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham used to say about Trump? What the heck happened to the GOP?
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
Banned
And this is timely:


aderson francois ���� 14th Amendment Baby@abfrancois
The Landing page for the US State Department website as of noon on Monday October 14.



 
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