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  • Originally posted by WizardofOz View Post
    You must not live in an urban area or look closely at statistics. London's "most murderous year in a decade" still saw less homicides than New York City's "record low homicides" (for two cities with comparable populations and opposing trends).

    So, I am not sure what point you were trying to make with that first link but the numbers don't lie.
    interesting that banning guns in london hasn't had the effect that was expected

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
      interesting that banning guns in london hasn't had the effect that was expected
      I support the right of Americans to own guns due to the 2nd Amendment and I also support certain gun control (everyone does to their own degree). However, London imposed their most restrictive gun control in 1997. Yet, homicide rates continued to fall (despite a single peak in 2003).

      I don't think that, taken as a whole, gun control really has an effect on crime rates either way. Places like Chicago should probably loosen restrictions due to the saturation of gun availability by criminals. They are easier to control in places like London but obviously, criminals will resort to other means.



      What effect did banning guns in London have on crime rates?
      “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

      ― Theodore Roosevelt

      Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WizardofOz View Post

        What effect did banning guns in London have on crime rates?
        oh no, not gonna get into a correlation/causation debate

        hmmpphhh - your link doesn't display on the TOL page - i can open it in a new link, but it should display in your post - i hate when that happens

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WizardofOz View Post
          ... criminals will resort to other means.
          looks like they've found a way to re-arm themselves with guns - the market will provide, eh?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
            oh no, not gonna get into a correlation/causation debate

            hmmpphhh - your link doesn't display on the TOL page - i can open it in a new link, but it should display in your post - i hate when that happens
            It's the dang .png extension...



            It's over 130 for 2018 but I don't think the total tally is over that previous year's total by much. They matched it in November.

            Originally posted by ok doser View Post
            looks like they've found a way to re-arm themselves with guns - the market will provide, eh?
            Yup. Free markets are the best we've got but they aren't perfect.
            “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

            ― Theodore Roosevelt

            Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WizardofOz View Post
              Yup. Free markets are the best we've got but they aren't perfect.

              i wonder where they're coming from?

              i don't have the time today (or any idea how i'd go about looking) but there must be data somewhere on illegal weapons seizures at united kingdom ports of entry

              Comment


              • Originally posted by musterion View Post
                On the bright side, we don't have this.

                https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...laims-15615300
                and thank goodness - of course that could change in the next news cycle


                had to google this: "police in high-viz"





                or, as we call them in america - firemen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                  i wonder where they're coming from?

                  i don't have the time today (or any idea how i'd go about looking) but there must be data somewhere on illegal weapons seizures at united kingdom ports of entry
                  I'd also be curious to see how many are American made...most I'd suspect.

                  Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                  and thank goodness - of course that could change in the next news cycle

                  had to google this: "police in high-viz"



                  or, as we call them in america - firemen
                  Crossing guards with chauffeur hats?
                  “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

                  ― Theodore Roosevelt

                  Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

                  Comment


                  • i just went outside and shot three clips

                    before my fingers went stiff - beautiful sunny calm day - it would be bitter if there was any wind

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WizardofOz View Post
                      I don't think that, taken as a whole, gun control really has an effect on crime rates either way.
                      Gun control has a profound effect on homicide rates, which is the central aim. General violence and crime are a different matter.

                      Guns make it very easy to kill even if there isn't a specific intent to do so, whereas with manual weapons there usually has to be a thorough attempt. With that being the case, most all homicide that occurs under strict gun control is purely intentional.

                      America's problem with guns is that it's current laws make it easy for a criminal to become a murderer simply by reacting in fear with a pistol which is a how a majority of gun homicide goes down. You only hear about the really malicious incidences that occur and that misleads people into seeing the problem differently.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Crucifer View Post
                        Gun control has a profound effect on homicide rates, which is the central aim. General violence and crime are a different matter.
                        Not for London. Perhaps you are referring to other data?

                        Guns make it very easy to kill even if there isn't a specific intent to do so
                        They also make it much, much easier to an intended victim to defend themselves. Therein lies the rub.

                        whereas with manual weapons there usually has to be a thorough attempt. With that being the case, most all homicide that occurs under strict gun control is purely intentional.
                        As opposed to accidental death and/or suicide? I'm not too concerned about suicide as someone who intends to kill themselves will find a way if they are convinced they want to go through with it.

                        Accidental death, while tragic, can be prevented if the gun owner takes necessary precaution such as trigger locks, gun safes and gun safety training.

                        Just like with an automobile, we cannot remove human error from the equation completely.

                        America's problem with guns is that it's current laws make it easy for a criminal to become a murderer simply by reacting in fear with a pistol which is a how a majority of gun homicide goes down. You only hear about the really malicious incidences that occur and that misleads people into seeing the problem differently.
                        The issue with the US, I believe, is the level of gun saturation. Criminals can get them all too easy. Therefore, law abiding citizens should certainly be able to also own one. How many guns used in homicides in Chicago (for example) are legally obtained?
                        “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

                        ― Theodore Roosevelt

                        Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by musterion View Post
                          BTW

                          The Smithite swamp insider Romney is back and he's going to primary Trump next year.
                          Trump sure is good at getting rid of the swamp. He's fired at least half of his staff already!

                          Comment


                          • Is he Impeached yet?
                            Everyman is a voice in the dark.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                              i just went outside and shot three clips

                              before my fingers went stiff - beautiful sunny calm day - it would be bitter if there was any wind
                              Bet that made you feel all manly.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
                                Bet that made you feel all manly.
                                Are you intentionally emasculating yourself?

                                Comment

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