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What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

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  • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
    PJ,

    It seems to me that you've kinda acknowledged that I have been honest and given well-documented evidence for many of my posts here on TOL. Do you really think that someone who you obviously thought correct on a lot of other issues is going to not have documentary evidence for their position on this subject too?
    You have been, come to think of it. The biggest frauds and conspiracies are successful because nobody wants to believe it's possible. I have done no research in these areas but I have heard of weather control by the military going back to WWII or earlier. I know for a fact that the "government" has used people for experiments and research since who knows when.

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    • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
      You have been, come to think of it. The biggest frauds and conspiracies are successful because nobody wants to believe it's possible. I have done no research in these areas but I have heard of weather control by the military going back to WWII or earlier. I know for a fact that the "government" has used people for experiments and research since who knows when.
      OK. Now think about Hanford and all the deliberate contamination of the Columbia River done by pumping water from the river, through the reactors there, and that radioactive water directly back into the river. Then think about about the deliberate release of radioactivity into the atomosphere from Hanford. I'm a "downwinder". I was born within the plume dispersement area of Hanford, and lived there for decades. Still do. So, is our government capable of releasing poisonous aerosols upon it's own people?
      “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
      ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

      “One and God make a majority.”
      ― Frederick Douglass

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
        OK. Now think about Hanford and all the deliberate contamination of the Columbia River done by pumping water from the river, through the reactors there, and that radioactive water directly back into the river. Then think about about the deliberate release of radioactivity into the atomosphere from Hanford. I'm a "downwinder". I was born within the plume dispersement area of Hanford, and lived there for decades. Still do. So, is our government capable of releasing poisonous aerosols upon it's own people?
        So the post war govt, which had seen millions of deaths in war, did some releases that are now unacceptable. Does that mean that you have to believe every conspiracy thoery going? Or does the need for direct evidence still have a role to play?


        Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

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        • What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it

          I wonder how many climate change deniers still live on the Gulf coast of Texas, south Florida, Puerto Rico and California?

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          • Originally posted by jgarden View Post


            What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it

            I wonder how many climate change deniers still live on the Gulf coast of Texas, south Florida, Puerto Rico and California?
            Don't forget about Mexico and their earthquakes!

            Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app

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            • Barbarian asks for a summary of the best argument in the video.

              Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
              Yeah, the person who refuses to go examine a site chock full of facts is primarily interested in factual evidence. Riiiight..... How convincingly honest....
              I'm not saying that you're dishonest for refusing to say. But it is puzzling. Why not just tell us? And if you don't know, what makes you think anything therein is worth reading?

              I see that someone did look and found nothing of substance. So perhaps you can explain what it is therein that convinced you?
              This message is hidden because ...

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              • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                Actually, it is up to you to go study the data I've linked to. There is far more information than is possible to document in this format. You don't want to learn on your own? Then the consequences of your ignorance that include major health problems and destruction of our ecological systems in on you. I've given you enough to at least spark the interest of someone who is honestly looking to understand things. Your personal education is on you.

                In the week or so that I've been looking into this I've found info that even Wigington doesn't link to on his site. It's out there for anyone who wants to learn. I've found more Congressional hearings on the subject within the last decade. And those hearings focus on large scale climate modification. If it doesn't worry you that we have a government playing with the world-wide weather systems, then just about nothing will ever open your eyes.
                Assuming I want to research the topic you are trying to foist on my thread... Otherwise, it's up to you to make it relevant. Shall we review the topic: What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

                Shall we review how far we got:
                Originally posted by Derf View Post
                I'm not denying there could be geoengineering...



                Tell you what. Why don't you tell me what to do with the information you provided as it applies to the OP. Are you saying we've already tried fixing the climate, and we only make things worse?
                Are you saying geoengineering is proving that we can steer climate change in the right direction, but only evil people are using the technology so far and won't let Christians play? Or what?
                And then suddenly I'm Sergeant Schultz. That's fine (and a funny reference, I gotta hand it to you), but you're avoiding doing what the thread title asks for, and you didn't tell me how it's relevant that people are already doing climate change on purpose.

                Do you want them to stop? Do you want them to do more of it, because they've shown proficiency at it? It's your turn to say something, but you got your Col Klink superhero panties in a wad.

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                • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  Barbarian asks:
                  You don't think agriculture is done by humans? Who, then?



                  No. In fact, most cattle are not grazing, but in feed lots. Last year, there were about 92 million cattle in the United States:
                  http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda...06-24-2016.pdf

                  On the other hand, in pre-Columbian United States, there were about 30 million bison. So a three-fold increase. This doesn't touch the other agricultural sources of carbon dioxide, such as gasoline and diesel engines, chemicals, and so on.



                  See above. Do we have to abandon meat? No, but we need some fixes if we want to continue as we do. That can be either finding a way to reduce usage, or technology to deal with the waste in a save manner.

                  Or we could just let nature do it for us. That's probably not a very good idea in the long run. Nature's way tends to be drastic cuts in population.
                  I thought I replied to this, but I don't see it.

                  Good thoughts! Is it wrong to use feedlots instead of having the animals graze? Is one worse than the other, or just more concentrated. Agriculture (all kinds) will have to grow ever more concentrated as the population billows. Is it not better to have a large farm that feeds hundreds of thousands of people than to have everybody on their own land doing it? I'm not sure. I own land, and I don't want to give it up. And my cows are happy and fat and they graze comfortably on grass when it's not winter. But if everybody had what I have, there wouldn't be enough land at all, much less usable or non-arid land. Unless there's a way to reclaim arid land. I hear Israel is doing it some.

                  Much animal waste is usable, as long as we don't throw a bunch of chemicals into the animals first. It's not the same concern as human waste.

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                  • Originally posted by Derf View Post
                    Assuming I want to research the topic you are trying to foist on my thread... Otherwise, it's up to you to make it relevant. Shall we review the topic: What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

                    Shall we review how far we got:

                    And then suddenly I'm Sergeant Schultz. That's fine (and a funny reference, I gotta hand it to you), but you're avoiding doing what the thread title asks for, and you didn't tell me how it's relevant that people are already doing climate change on purpose.

                    Do you want them to stop? Do you want them to do more of it, because they've shown proficiency at it? It's your turn to say something, but you got your Col Klink superhero panties in a wad.
                    I haven't ignored the topic of this thread at all. Geoengineering is a massive threat to our environment and health, and it is being done with climate change as the purported reason for doing it. Plus, I have linked to a lot of data that you, to all appearances, have completely ignored. Should Christian's get involved in stopping the deliberate poisoning of our environment, and the destruction of our normal weather patterns, that is being done in the name of fighting global warming? This is all related.

                    I do owe you an apology though. I was out of line to call you Sergeant Shultz. I ask for your forgiveness.
                    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                    “One and God make a majority.”
                    ― Frederick Douglass

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                      Barbarian asks for a summary of the best argument in the video.



                      I'm not saying that you're dishonest for refusing to say. But it is puzzling. Why not just tell us? And if you don't know, what makes you think anything therein is worth reading?

                      I see that someone did look and found nothing of substance. So perhaps you can explain what it is therein that convinced you?
                      Forty to fifty hours of research and reading the documentation on the site.

                      Do you always take someone else's word for things that you don't look at yourself? That's what you have done here. You've ignored my link to the site, disbelieved me, and then accepted the word of another person that nothing exists. Seems to me it's a pretty arbitrary way of looking into something.
                      “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                      ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                      “One and God make a majority.”
                      ― Frederick Douglass

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                        Forty to fifty hours of research and reading the documentation on the site.

                        Do you always take someone else's word for things that you don't look at yourself? That's what you have done here. You've ignored my link to the site, disbelieved me, and then accepted the word of another person that nothing exists. Seems to me it's a pretty arbitrary way of looking into something.
                        I've looked at the site, and the first item I looked at was woefully I'll informed and and full of preconceptions.

                        I raised this with you but you ignore my comments, preferring to claim that no-one had looked at the site. Why do you do that? What do you think about my comments, since I took the time to follow your link and such some of the material?


                        Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

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                        • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                          Forty to fifty hours of research and reading the documentation on the site.

                          Do you always take someone else's word for things that you don't look at yourself? That's what you have done here. You've ignored my link to the site, disbelieved me, and then accepted the word of another person that nothing exists. Seems to me it's a pretty arbitrary way of looking into something.
                          I just asked you for whatever you think is the best point, and what the evidence for it would be.

                          If you don't know,or can't think of one, just say so.

                          But if you can't tell us that, why would anyone want to go there?
                          This message is hidden because ...

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                          • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            I haven't ignored the topic of this thread at all. Geoengineering is a massive threat to our environment and health, and it is being done with climate change as the purported reason for doing it. Plus, I have linked to a lot of data that you, to all appearances, have completely ignored. Should Christian's get involved in stopping the deliberate poisoning of our environment, and the destruction of our normal weather patterns, that is being done in the name of fighting global warming? This is all related.

                            I do owe you an apology though. I was out of line to call you Sergeant Shultz. I ask for your forgiveness.
                            Forgiveness granted.

                            And thank you for explaining your position. If our government is already showing aptitude at climate control, that is both a blessing and a curse. Blessing in that it could be used constructively, and curse in that it is a mighty power to yield without fully knowing what we're doing.

                            One of the biggest hindrances to our attempts to control climate is that we don't really seek the best source of information, which would be the bible. The Bible gives numerous of climate affects that are caused by human activity, and more to come.

                            Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app

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                            • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                              A video from a geoengineering whistleblower who was in the USAF for 9 years. A very interesting video and speech.

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA
                              AAAAaaaaaaaaaaaagh! I will never get that 21 minutes and 35 seconds back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She had absolutely nothing of value to say.

                              And you want me to spend 40 to 50 hours researching some other site of yours?

                              Comment


                              • Barbarian observes:
                                I see that someone did look and found nothing of substance. So perhaps you can explain what it is therein that convinced you?

                                Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                                Forty to fifty hours of research and reading the documentation on the site.

                                Do you always take someone else's word for things that you don't look at yourself?
                                gcthomas has built up a considerable amount of credibility regarding this subject. You haven't. So unless you can actually find something therein that you understand well enough to tell us about, that's where we stand now.

                                That's what you have done here. You've ignored my link to the site, disbelieved me, and then accepted the word of another person that nothing exists.
                                I didn't say I didn't believe you. I'm saying it's rather odd that you can't tell us even one argument in the video that you find compelling. If you can't find even one, why would anyone bother looking at it?
                                This message is hidden because ...

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