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What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

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  • Originally posted by Derf View Post
    Not really. Every bit of sarcasm you gave may be good reason to suspect the government and the government's motives, but says absolutely nothing about chemtrails and geoengineering.

    I'm not denying there could be geoengineering, but none of what you wrote, and little of what you video link said, seem to indicate any kind of geoengineering attempts.



    Tell you what. Why don't you tell me what to do with the information you provided as it applies to the OP. Are you saying we've already tried fixing the climate, and we only make things worse?
    Are you saying geoengineering is proving that we can steer climate change in the right direction, but only evil people are using the technology so far and won't let Christians play? Or what?

    And btw, I did try to look at the evidence, but got out of it the same thing some others did--chemtrail conspiracy nut, repackaged as anti-geoengineering activist (not you, necessarily, just the guy on the video). That's when you gave a list of things that had nothing to do with the data or video, which you used to conclude that the others must be true. I'm not sure I'm responsible for the strawman.

    I'll admit my first impression could be wrong, despite the overwhelmingness of the impression, but it seems the burden is on you to make it relevant to the topic.

    Have at it.
    The fact that you deny there is evidence for geoengineering tells me you didn't bother to read much, if anything.

    There is a ton of it on the geoengineeringwatch.com site. What did you do, if you even went there, look at the front page and then dismiss it because of the photos? Didn't bother to read the government documents addressing this issue, and how the DoD killed attempts at treaties on geoengineering as far back as the early 1970s, and that there were multiple Congressional hearings on this as far back as the mid 1960s. The fact you say there is no evidence, yet dismiss all the government documents as being no evidence at all, is simply amazing to me. But that is the norm. Keep sticking your head in the sand and keep on commenting on how you can see nothing, Sergeant Shultz.

    As to dismissing chemtrails as contrails, which is often done, contrails disappear about as fast as their appear as they are nothing but condensate in the air. Ever watch very small clouds evaporate before your eyes? That's what contrails do because they are not large enough, don't have enough mass to sustain themselves. Chemtrials linger for many hours and spread across the sky. I don't know how old you are but multiple chemtrails crossing the sky that lingered on and on very rarely happened 40 to 50 years ago. They were basically unknown. Now they are an everyday occurrence.
    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    “One and God make a majority.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

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    • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
      The fact that you deny there is evidence for geoengineering tells me you didn't bother to read much, if anything.

      There is a ton of it on the geoengineeringwatch.com site. What did you do, if you even went there, look at the front page and then dismiss it because of the photos? Didn't bother to read the government documents addressing this issue, and how the DoD killed attempts at treaties on geoengineering as far back as the early 1970s, and that there were multiple Congressional hearings on this as far back as the mid 1960s. The fact you say there is no evidence, yet dismiss all the government documents as being no evidence at all, is simply amazing to me. But that is the norm. Keep sticking your head in the sand and keep on commenting on how you can see nothing, Sergeant Shultz.

      As to dismissing chemtrails as contrails, which is often done, contrails disappear about as fast as their appear as they are nothing but condensate in the air. Ever watch very small clouds evaporate before your eyes? That's what contrails do because they are not large enough, don't have enough mass to sustain themselves. Chemtrials linger for many hours and spread across the sky. I don't know how old you are but multiple chemtrails crossing the sky that lingered on and on very rarely happened 40 to 50 years ago. They were basically unknown. Now they are an everyday occurrence.
      Still waiting for the relevance to the topic...

      Comment


      • Barbarian asks:
        You don't think agriculture is done by humans? Who, then?

        Originally posted by Derf View Post
        Sure, but if we didn't use a bunch of land for grazing cows, there would likely be a bunch of similar animals grazing there instead.
        No. In fact, most cattle are not grazing, but in feed lots. Last year, there were about 92 million cattle in the United States:
        http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda...06-24-2016.pdf

        On the other hand, in pre-Columbian United States, there were about 30 million bison. So a three-fold increase. This doesn't touch the other agricultural sources of carbon dioxide, such as gasoline and diesel engines, chemicals, and so on.

        Maybe they don't burp as much, but maybe they would make up for it with other emissions or in sheer numbers--like the bison herds in the 1800s.
        See above. Do we have to abandon meat? No, but we need some fixes if we want to continue as we do. That can be either finding a way to reduce usage, or technology to deal with the waste in a save manner.

        Or we could just let nature do it for us. That's probably not a very good idea in the long run. Nature's way tends to be drastic cuts in population.
        This message is hidden because ...

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        • Originally posted by Derf View Post
          Still waiting for the relevance to the topic...
          I gave you a link that has more data than you could carefully study in a month and you have refused to look at it. I can do nothing more for someone with a mind like a sprung bear trap.

          It's pretty ironic that the Congressional Research Service has a 40 page document on Governance and Technology Policy that addresses aerosol injection, enhanced cloud albedo, and space reflectors for something that doesn't exist. Very odd wouldn't you say? It's also very ironic that a 150+ page document on hearings in front of a Senate subcommittee from back in 1974 exists on something that doesn't exist even now according to you. Very odd isn't it? But, that's alright Sergeant Shultz. I expect little openmindedness from someone with a mind like a sprung bear trap. You see nuthing....
          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

          “One and God make a majority.”
          ― Frederick Douglass

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          • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
            You need a better graph.


            G.o. has been suckered by the classic bait-and-switch. The first graph is for the Earth as a whole. The second is for an area comprising about 2% of the Earth's surface.
            This message is hidden because ...

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            • A video from a geoengineering whistleblower who was in the USAF for 9 years. A very interesting video and speech.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA
              “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
              ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

              “One and God make a majority.”
              ― Frederick Douglass

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                A video from a geoengineering whistleblower who was in the USAF for 9 years. A very interesting video and speech.
                For those of us who are interested primarily in facts, what do you think the best argument in his video is, and what is the evidence for it?
                This message is hidden because ...

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                • Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                  I gave you a link that has more data than you could carefully study in a month and you have refused to look at it. I can do nothing more for someone with a mind like a sprung bear trap.

                  It's pretty ironic that the Congressional Research Service has a 40 page document on Governance and Technology Policy that addresses aerosol injection, enhanced cloud albedo, and space reflectors for something that doesn't exist. Very odd wouldn't you say? It's also very ironic that a 150+ page document on hearings in front of a Senate subcommittee from back in 1974 exists on something that doesn't exist even now according to you. Very odd isn't it? But, that's alright Sergeant Shultz. I expect little openmindedness from someone with a mind like a sprung bear trap. You see nuthing....
                  That's good. Keep going...

                  Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app

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                  • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post


                    The reason that CO2has such a disproportionate effect on warming is that it absorbs infrared at wavelengths other greenhouse gases do not.
                    Which gas in its current quantities is responsible for the current temperature of the atmosphere? water vapor or gas? I submit that there are more water vapor molecules added to the atmosphere over the modern in than there have been co2 molecules. The window of absorption you refer to only matters in regards to infrared released from the surface. That radiation was fully absorbed at co2 levels much lower than they are currently.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ClimateSanity View Post
                      Which gas in its current quantities is responsible for the current temperature of the atmosphere? water vapor or gas?
                      If you fill a bathtub almost to the top from the tap, and then pour a bucket of water into it so that it it is filled to the brim, which water is responsible for it being at that level? When you know that, you will have your answer.

                      I submit that there are more water vapor molecules added to the atmosphere over the modern in than there have been co2 molecules.
                      Show us that. Sounds unlikely, although increased temperatures might eventually lead to more water vapor in the air. So you might (assuming your belief is correct) be confusing the effect with the cause.

                      The window of absorption you refer to only matters in regards to infrared released from the surface.
                      So your argument is that infrared from solar heating of the surface doesn't count? Why do you think it doesn't?

                      That radiation was fully absorbed at co2 levels much lower than they are currently.
                      It isn't even fully absorbed now. Satellites can detect it, which means a lot of it is still escaping the Earth; they wouldn't be able to detect it, if it wasn't.
                      This message is hidden because ...

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                      • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                        For those of us who are interested primarily in facts, what do you think the best argument in his video is, and what is the evidence for it?
                        I watched it, and you won't find evidence, only someone frustrated with the military blowing off some steam. No evidence at all in there.


                        Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

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                        • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                          For those of us who are interested primarily in facts, what do you think the best argument in his video is, and what is the evidence for it?
                          Yeah, the person who refuses to go examine a site chock full of facts is primarily interested in factual evidence. Riiiight..... How convincingly honest....
                          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                          “One and God make a majority.”
                          ― Frederick Douglass

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Derf View Post
                            That's good. Keep going...

                            Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app
                            Actually, it is up to you to go study the data I've linked to. There is far more information than is possible to document in this format. You don't want to learn on your own? Then the consequences of your ignorance that include major health problems and destruction of our ecological systems in on you. I've given you enough to at least spark the interest of someone who is honestly looking to understand things. Your personal education is on you.

                            In the week or so that I've been looking into this I've found info that even Wigington doesn't link to on his site. It's out there for anyone who wants to learn. I've found more Congressional hearings on the subject within the last decade. And those hearings focus on large scale climate modification. If it doesn't worry you that we have a government playing with the world-wide weather systems, then just about nothing will ever open your eyes.
                            “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                            ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                            “One and God make a majority.”
                            ― Frederick Douglass

                            Comment


                            • I heard last night somebody said that if you turn your floodlight on at night, you will see a fine mist floating through the air, thereby proving that the "government" is dispersing chemicals etc. Maybe they are weather control chemicals?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
                                I heard last night somebody said that if you turn your floodlight on at night, you will see a fine mist floating through the air, thereby proving that the "government" is dispersing chemicals etc. Maybe they are weather control chemicals?
                                PJ,

                                It seems to me that you've kinda acknowledged that I have been honest and given well-documented evidence for many of my posts here on TOL. Do you really think that someone who you obviously thought correct on a lot of other issues is going to not have documentary evidence for their position on this subject too?
                                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                                “One and God make a majority.”
                                ― Frederick Douglass

                                Comment

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