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Sports Talk 2018: Lebron to Brady and Everything in Between

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  • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you can actually trick your mind into believing that if Wentz would have been healthy at the end of last year that he would have been picked over Prescott for the Pro Bowl even though his record that year as a starting quarterback was a losing one, 5-6.
    It's all about his play at the position. It was better than Dak, even with a lot less to work with.

    And despite the fact that once the Cowboys traded for a number one receiver Dak Prescott lead his team to a 8-1 record and a playoff win.
    So his numbers were worse EVEN WITH the best back in the league taking pressure off of him AND THEN he got a legitimate one at wide receiver. Mix that with a stout defense and of course he won. This could be a really good year for Dallas fans.

    According to your confused metrics
    It's actually just literal statistical data and it's compiled by the NFL.

    a quarterback that lead his team to a 5-6 record is better than one who lead his his team to winning 7 out of their last 8
    The win/loss is often misleading. We've seen the great Tom Brady play poorly and his team win anyway. We've seen him play great and the team lose a Super Bowl.

    It is completely absurd to think that if Wentz was healthy at the end of the season he would have been picked over Prescott for the Pro Bowl.
    Not if you're picking by play and not conflating that with the team he plays for.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life






    Comment


    • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
      It's all about his play at the position. It was better than Dak, even with a lot less to work with.
      The team Wentz was playing for was the defending Super Bowl Champion!

      But yet you think that if Wentz would have been healthy at the end of last year that he would have been chosen over Prescott for the Pro Bowl even though his record when starting was 5-6!

      And Prescott won 8 of his last 9 games and a playoff victory!

      You are delusional!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        The team Wentz was playing for was the defending Super Bowl Champion!
        For a lot of teams, as a rule, teams that win a Super Bowl, don't repeat. They don't repeat for a couple of reasons. For many of the winning teams it's about catching breaks and playing their best for a year. Washington did that. The Bears did that. The Saints did that, and so on. Sometimes they just catch fire in the playoffs, as with the Giants teams of late, in terms of SBs. Repeating teams are better, tend to be part of dynasty runs, as with the Niners, the Dolphins, the Cowboys, and New England.

        The Eagles weren't beginning a dynasty. They were missing too many pieces. They don't have a great ground game or receiving core, so the offense is in need. The Eagles won with great team play, outstanding scheming, and a few breaks. The offense did for them what the Saints defense did for New Orleans in their SB run, played over their heads. A terrific story, but not one that was going to continue. That's why Philly said goodbye, fondly, to Foles. They know him better than anyone outside of their locker room. They know Wentz. It wasn't a hard decision for them, though they valued Nick, as they should have.

        As it stands, Dallas has the edge. They have more in place, even if the Eagles have better coaching. Without a real ground game and a legitimate number one at receiver, Philly will come up short more often than not, the way they were late against Dallas, despite Wentz out playing Dak in the game.

        I'm skipping the next couple because I've already spoken to them repeatedly.

        You are delusional!
        Nah, I'm just not a Cowboys homer. . . not an Eagles homer either. They aren't my teams.

        I look at them differently than people rooting for them do.
        You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

        Pro-Life






        Comment


        • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
          Nah, I'm just not a Cowboys homer. . . not an Eagles homer either. They aren't my teams.
          You are a Wentz homer!

          Even though Wentz's record last year as quarterback was 5-6 you think that if he was healthy at the end of the year he would have been named to the Pro Bowl instead of Prescott, who lead the Boys to the Eastern Division championship over Wentz's Eagles by winning 7 of the last 8 regular season games and then defeating Seattle in a play-off win!

          You lack anything that resembles common sense!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
            You are a Wentz homer!
            That's just silly. I don't particularly like or dislike either quarterback. I'm not sure either is as good as advertised, though I think there's enough evidence that they can be franchise quarterbacks for their respective teams.

            Since the rest is your repeating things I've already answered without addressing my answers, here's a new approach.


            The Sporting News ranked quarterback performance last year and had it: Wentz 11th, Prescott 14th, Foles 24th.


            So they ranked Wentz higher than Prescott and much higher than the guy you think was better than Wentz.


            ESPN ordered qb play by their new system and it shook out: Wentz 12th, Prescott 16th

            By the old quarterback rating system of the NFL it was: Wentz 7th, Prescott 13th, Foles 15th

            Now Bleacher did rank Prescott's supporting cast higher than Wentz's troops, but that's really helping my case too.

            So no, I'm not a Wentz homer and neither is ESPN, the NFL Network, or The Sporting News.

            It's just the way it is.
            You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

            Pro-Life






            Comment


            • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
              It's just the way it is.
              The following stats undermine the stats you quote:

              Who’s the better quarterback — Dak Prescott or Carson Wentz?

              The Prescott vs. Wentz debate has been fiercely waged since the NFC East rival quarterbacks entered the league together in 2016. But the NFL Network added a wrinkle to the question asking “which quarterback would you rather have with the game on the line?”

              There are mountains of stats to compare, but the QBs’ fourth quarter numbers were the primary ones being looked at. In somewhat of a surprise, all of them were heavily in Prescott’s favor.

              Since 2016, Prescott has had a better passer rating and TD-INT ratio than Wentz in the fourth quarter. Talk about thriving in the heat of the moment.

              The Dallas QB has tossed 22 touchdowns to just eight interceptions late in games, while Philly’s signal caller has a 13-7 ratio. Prescott’s passer rating of 99.3 also gets the edge over Wentz’s 83.5.

              Prescott also has double the number of fourth quarter comebacks (8) than Wentz (4), and has recorded 14 game-winning drives compared to just four for the Eagles QB. Prescott’s number of game winning drives in is the most in the NFL since 2016.

              Sounds like the obvious winner of the question “who ya got” with the game on the line would be Prescott.

              https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/dak...owboys-eagles/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                So you really think that if Wentz would have been healthy at the end of last season he would have been named to the All Pro team instead of Prescott?
                Not only do I think it, so does The Sporting News that ranked him ahead of Dak. And it follows from ESPN's analysis and the NFL.com/Profootball.ref evaluations.

                Yeah. You put the better guy in and Wentz played better, and with less to work with.
                You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

                Pro-Life






                Comment


                • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
                  It's just the way it is.
                  The following stats undermine the stats you quote:

                  Who’s the better quarterback — Dak Prescott or Carson Wentz?

                  The Prescott vs. Wentz debate has been fiercely waged since the NFC East rival quarterbacks entered the league together in 2016. But the NFL Network added a wrinkle to the question asking “which quarterback would you rather have with the game on the line?”

                  There are mountains of stats to compare, but the QBs’ fourth quarter numbers were the primary ones being looked at. In somewhat of a surprise, all of them were heavily in Prescott’s favor.

                  Since 2016, Prescott has had a better passer rating and TD-INT ratio than Wentz in the fourth quarter. Talk about thriving in the heat of the moment.

                  The Dallas QB has tossed 22 touchdowns to just eight interceptions late in games, while Philly’s signal caller has a 13-7 ratio. Prescott’s passer rating of 99.3 also gets the edge over Wentz’s 83.5.

                  Prescott also has double the number of fourth quarter comebacks (8) than Wentz (4), and has recorded 14 game-winning drives compared to just four for the Eagles QB. Prescott’s number of game winning drives in is the most in the NFL since 2016.

                  Sounds like the obvious winner of the question “who ya got” with the game on the line would be Prescott.

                  https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/dak...owboys-eagles/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                    The following stats undermine the stats you quote:

                    Who’s the better quarterback — Dak Prescott or Carson Wentz?

                    The Prescott vs. Wentz debate has been fiercely waged since the NFC East rival quarterbacks entered the league together in 2016. But the NFL Network added a wrinkle to the question asking “which quarterback would you rather have with the game on the line?”

                    There are mountains of stats to compare, but the QBs’ fourth quarter numbers were the primary ones being looked at. In somewhat of a surprise, all of them were heavily in Prescott’s favor.

                    Since 2016, Prescott has had a better passer rating and TD-INT ratio than Wentz in the fourth quarter. Talk about thriving in the heat of the moment.

                    The Dallas QB has tossed 22 touchdowns to just eight interceptions late in games, while Philly’s signal caller has a 13-7 ratio. Prescott’s passer rating of 99.3 also gets the edge over Wentz’s 83.5.

                    Prescott also has double the number of fourth quarter comebacks (8) than Wentz (4), and has recorded 14 game-winning drives compared to just four for the Eagles QB. Prescott’s number of game winning drives in is the most in the NFL since 2016.

                    Sounds like the obvious winner of the question “who ya got” with the game on the line would be Prescott.

                    https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/dak...owboys-eagles/
                    Only if we're having a fourth quarter contest. But the game is divided into four and a season into more than that. Wentz is better. The numbers reflect it.

                    Also, it looks as though we've gone from last year to a sum game, so you need to pick which argument we're having and not cross streams.
                    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

                    Pro-Life






                    Comment


                    • Accdording to your bright ideas Wentz had a better season in 2018 with his 5-6 record than Prescott did with his 10-6 record which won the NFC East division. And then his team beat Seattle in the play-offs.

                      You're mighty proud of Wentz's 5-6 record and think that if he had been healed by the end of the season he would have been picked for the Pro Bowl instead of Prescott.

                      The facts are clear even if you refuse to acknowledge them. Prescott was the better player between the two in two out of the three seasons.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        Accdording to your bright ideas Wentz had a better season in 2018 with his 5-6 record than Prescott did with his 10-6 record which won the NFC East division. And then his team beat Seattle in the play-offs.
                        Let's look at the Eagles season together.

                        1. Atl: Foles plays and posts an abysmal 50.7 rating, while the Eagles rush for a combined 113 yds. They don't score a TD. Loss by 6

                        2. @ TB: Foles with an outstanding 98.8 rating, over 300 yds, 1 td and 0 ints. But they can't rush for a score or over 100 yds. Loss by 7

                        3. Ind: Wentz gets his first start back and is solid, with an 84.9 rating, 1 td, 1 int. The ground game puts up 150+ and a td. Win by 4

                        4. @ Ten: Wentz throws 300+ yds, 2 tds, 0 ints, with an outstanding 99.4 rating. The ground game barely cracks 100 yds, 0 tds. Loss in OT by 3

                        5. Min: Wentz throws 300+ yds, 2 tds, 0 ints, with a great 115.3 rating. The ground game barely cracks 80 yds, 0 tds. Loss by 2

                        6. @ Gia: Wentz throws 278 yds, 3 tds, 0 ints with a rating of 122.2. The ground game gets 108 yds, 1 td. Win by 21

                        7. Car: Wentz throws 310 yds, 2 td, 0 ints with a rating of 119.6. The ground game gets 58 and 0 tds. Loss by 4

                        8. @ Jac: Wentz throws 286 yds, 3 td, 1 int with a rating of 119.6. The ground game gets 133 and 0 tds. Win by 6

                        10. Dal: Wentz throws for 360 yds, 2 tds and 1 int, for a 102.5 rating. The ground game gets 71 yds and 0 tds. Loss by 7.

                        11. @NO: Wentz throws for 156, 0 tds and 3 ints, for an abysmal 31.9 rating. The ground game gets 58 yds and 1 td. Loss by 41.

                        12. Gia: Wentz throws for 236 yds, 1 td and 0 ints, for a 108.6 rating. The ground game gets 127 yds and 1 td. Win by 3

                        13. Was: Wentz throws for 306 yds, 2 td and 1 int, for a 98.9 rating. The ground game gets 130 and 1 td. Win by 15

                        14. @ Dal: Wentz throws for 228, 3 tds and 0 ints, for a 120.3 rating. The ground game gets 34 yds and 0 td. Loss by 6

                        15. @LA: Foles throws for 270 yds, 0 tds and 1 int, for a 75.9 rating. The ground game gets 82 yds and 2 td. Win by 7

                        16. Hou: Foles throws for 471 yds, 4 tds and 1 int, for a 120.4 rating. The ground game gets 57 yds and 0 td. Win by 2

                        17. @Was: Foles throws for 221 yds, 2 tds and 1 int, for a 102.1 rating. The ground game gets 129 yds and 0 tds. Win by 24

                        Wentz has one bad game in the entire year, against the team that should have gone to the Super Bowl. Otherwise, he's outstanding, with the difference between a win or a loss being decided by run support, which is missing from most of the games. In games where he gets a score in support he's 4-0.

                        His qbr is over one hundred 7 out of 11 games and right at it in 2 others.

                        In fact the Eagles are 3-7 in games where they fail to score a single td on offense. Wentz played in 5 of those losses.

                        Foles won 2 times without run support, though one of those was the last, Washington game, where his defense gave up 0 points in offense from Washington.
                        You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

                        Pro-Life






                        Comment


                        • Now let's look at Dak's season.

                          1. @Car: Dak throws for 170 yds, 0 tds, 0 ints, for an okay 81.0 rating. The ground game gets 90 yds and 1 td. Loss by 8

                          2. Gia: Dak throws for 160 yds, 1 td, 0 ints, for a 95.4 rating. The ground game gets 138 yds and 1 td. Win by 7

                          3. @Sea: Dak throws for 168 yds, 1 td, 2 ints for a horrible 54.5 rating. The ground game gets 166 yds and 0 tds. Loss by 11

                          4. Det: Dak throws for 255 yds, 2 tds, 0 ints, and a great 118.6 rating. The ground game gets 173 yds and 0 tds. Win by 2

                          5. @ Hou: Dak throws for 208 yds, 1 td, 2 ints and a rating of 66.5. The ground game gets 98 yds and 0 tds. Loss by 3

                          6. Jac: Dak throws for 183 yds, 2 td, 0 ints and a rating of 107.5. The ground game gets 206 yds and 2 tds. Win by 33

                          7. @Was: Dak throws for 273 yds, 1 td, 0 ints and a rating of 91.7. The ground game gets 70 yds and 1 td. Loss by 3

                          8. Ten: Dak throws for 243 yds, 2 td, 1 int and a rating of 99.3. The ground game gets 72 yds, 0 tds. Loss by 14

                          9. @Phi: Dak throws for 270 yds, 1 td and 0 ints for a rating of 102.8. The ground game gets 171 yds and 2 tds. Win by 3

                          10.@Atl: Dak throws for 208 yds, 0 td and 0 ints for a rating of 86.5. The ground game gets 132 yds and 2 tds, Win by 3

                          11. Was: Dak throws for 289 yds, 2 td and 0 ints for a rating of 121.6. The ground game gets 146 yds and 2 tds. Win by 8

                          12. NO: Dak throws for 249 yds, 1 td and 0 ints for a rating of 115.6. The ground game gets 99 yds and 0 tds. Win by 3

                          13. Phi: Dak throws for 455 yds, 3 td and 2 ints for a rating of 104.9. The ground game gets 143 yds and 0 tds. Win by 6

                          14. @Ind: Dak throws for 206 yds, 0 td and 1 int for a rating of 64.7. The ground game gets 112 yds and 0 tds. Loss by 23

                          15. TB: Dak throws for 161 yds, 1 td, and 0 ints for a rating of 106.8. The ground game gets 80 yds and 1 td. Win by 7

                          16. @Gia: Dak throws for 387 yds, 4 td and 0 ints for a rating of 120.2. The ground game gets 51 yds and 1 td. Win by 1

                          So Dak played above a hundred rating 8 out of 16. He has 3 bad games and his best is against Washington. An excellent year.

                          Though if you're going to hang much on the win loss, you need to understand that you won 5 games by between 1 and 3 pts. Lost 2 by that same margin. Meaning nearly half your games were as easily lost as won, or vice versa.

                          Meaning your 10 - 6 record could have as easily been 12 -4 or 5 - 11.
                          You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

                          Pro-Life






                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
                            Meaning your 10 - 6 record could have as easily been 12 -4 or 5 - 11.
                            If Wentz was the quarterback it would have been 5-11 but Prescott lead the Boys to a 10-6 record and a division title plus a playoff win!

                            According to your bright ideas Wentz had a better season in 2018 with his 5-6 record than Prescott did with his 10-6 record.

                            You're mighty proud of Wentz's 5-6 record and think that if he had been healed by the end of the season he would have been picked for the Pro Bowl instead of Prescott.

                            The facts are clear even if you refuse to acknowledge them. Prescott was the better player between the two in two out of the three seasons.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                              If Wentz was the quarterback it would have been 5-11
                              Wentz was 4-0 when his running game was productive. So, given that Dallas mostly supplied a great deal of that, that's not likely at all.

                              but Prescott lead the Boys to a 10-6 record and a division title plus a playoff win!
                              They won the division by one game despite winning twice against the Eagles.
                              7 of your games were decided by a fg or less.
                              4 of Philly's games were decided by a fg or less.

                              I think that by the end your team was playing better ball than the Eagles, largely because you had a reliable running game. And both games between the teams were decided late. The first in the 4th quarter, and the second in OT.

                              The facts are clear even if you refuse to acknowledge them.
                              You mean the statisticians at ESPN and ProFootball Reference, along with The Sporting News. You're just wrong, which is why I was comfortable literally setting out the particular statistics in full.

                              Prescott was the better player between the two in two out of the three seasons.
                              Well, no. He played better in his first season. Far better. And I told you why I thought that was. He wasn't as good a player in either of the next two years, as can be objectively noted by anyone interested and as set out prior.
                              You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

                              Pro-Life






                              Comment


                              • Of course everyone knows that a 5-6 won-loss record is far superior to a 10-6 record so that is why Wentz had a better 2018 season than did Prescott!

                                Comment

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