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  • Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    Actually, in Romans 1:18 through 3:20 the Apostle Paul is laying out a history of various of God's revealing of His will and or expectations of man in progressively clearer and clearer revelations, and man's having only continued to fall short of God's mark, ending with His revelation of a much fuller picture of His expected will of man towards Him: The Law.
    You are dodging the issue.
    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    That out of the way, he returns back to the issue of the Glory of the Son's work ALONE that he began all that with, way back in...

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    You are misunderstanding the quote about the just (righteous) shall live by faith (their faithfulness).

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    justification can only be by faith and not by anyone's behaviours, or lack thereof):
    3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
    Paul was saying we establish (stand by) the law by our behaviour, and that God forbids making the law void (abolished) by our beliefs.

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    Man sins because he is a sinner; he is not a sinner because he sins.
    Original Sin is a heresy that Augustine brought into Christianity from Manichaeism.
    The Bible clearly teaches that man is a sinner because he sins.
    A person does not murder because he is a murderer, a person is a murderer because he commits murder.

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    In other words, it is not man's behaviour that is the issue, rather his identity - the fact of his having been born in Adam compels a rebellion in him.
    Without relying on the heresy of Original Sin, your statement is meaningless.
    However Paul was clear that it is your behavior that is the issue:

    Romans 6:16
    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


    This is clearly not an identity issue.

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    In this, homosexuality, the Identity, is nothing more than the natural manifestation of the Sin Identity, in some.
    Since there is no such thing as the "sin identity", there is also no such thing as the "homosexual identity".
    Homosexual behavior is deemed by God to be deserving of the harshest punishment in the Bible, death, along with adultery and murder.

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    In other words, within that Economy
    I see that you have a distorted view of the Bible because of the teaching of Dispensationalism.
    Just like the Pharisee pointing out the publican and saying "Thank you God for not making me like him," Dispensationalists are always pointing to the people they claim are in a different Dispensation (Economy) and saying "Thank you God for not making me like them."

    Originally posted by Danoh View Post
    In short, you'll have to find some other means of asserting your argument.
    Not at all.
    The overwhelming message of the Bible is that God judges us by our actions, not by our identity.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

    Comment


    • GO, you have Law and Grace...confused.

      The Law was PERFORMANCE Based Acceptance.

      In contrast, Grace is ACCEPTED IN The Beloved BASED Acceptance.

      The Law pointed to one's Identity in Adam through the Behaviour it pointed out in one.

      Grace points one to one's Identity in Christ through pointing to Him - to what He ALONE accomplished.

      Galatians 2:20 I AM crucified WITH Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.

      Galatians 6:15 For IN Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

      Under Grace, neither Circumcision (not even that one time Behavior) nor Uncircumcision (lack of having engaged in said one time Behavior) availeth ANYTHING before God.

      Rather, a new Identity IN His Son does.

      Rom. 5:6-8.

      Comment


      • Interesting short video testimony by a Believer who once lived a Homosexual lifestyle.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG2bZJpueKs&app=desktop



        Rom. 5:6-8

        Comment


        • Regarding the above video by that so eloquent a Believing sister in the Lord, it remains fascinating to me the difference in results in the Lord that different Believers tell of.

          She relates she still struggles with the temptations of homosexuality her flesh would tempt her to indulge.

          Other Believers report the temptation completely gone.

          And Believers of all sorts report one or the other of those two experiences, as to one temptation, or another.

          I myself still recall that when I first began to see in Scripture what I later found out from others was known as Acts 9 Dispensationalism, my use of four letter words returned.

          I was sharing this yesterday with someone on the phone and they responded that that had been a result of the freedom from the bondage of religion that my having begun to see Acts 9 distinctions like law in contrast to...grace, had resulted in.

          Though I understood where he was coming from (the doctrine that grace not only frees you from the "have to, or else" but then enables you to...be accountable) I had to admit that that had not been the case.

          That only in the moment that I became aware that my swearing had returned, was I aware it had vanished for a time.

          That I had not worked on getting rid of it, rather; that it had not only vanished on its own, but that until that moment I found it had returned, I had been unaware it had vanished.

          Of course, I then proceeded to work on eradicating it's return to my vocabulary, as the Apostle Paul often instructs.

          Still, I found this momentary, very personsal glimpse into these kinds of things, a fascinating one.

          Its questions and answers in light of the Word, remaining fascinating ones to this very day.

          Obviously, the whole of the actual dynamic going on within such things, is a complex one.

          One obviously comprised of various, interconnected components.

          How is it that one Believer reports their struggle as to one thing or another continues, and yet another reports no longer experiencing said struggle?

          As when one Believer finds that upon their first having Believed that Christ died for their sins, in that very instance their battle with one addiction or another, simply...vanished.

          In contrast to those Believers who find that no, their battle did not end upon their first having Believed that Christ died for their sins.

          And the Apostle Paul in his writings (which really amount to "instruction in ...righteousness") appears very much aware of the existence of both those different experiences - in different Believers.

          I greatly suspect the answer to such seeming dichotomies in "deliverance" experiences between different Believers is one the Lord has much more to say on in His Word than most who either struggle with such issues, or who conclude they have arrived at some last word on, have yet to arrive at.

          The study of this dynamic: the dynamic of actual change, remains a fascinating one for me.

          The answer to which, at least for the Believer, is perhaps in what one Pastor-Teacher has often noted is to basically be the Believer's focus this side of Grace: the focus that can be - the focus that is -"Don't judge yourself by your failures (Behavior), rather, by who (Identity) God says in His Word, He has made you in His Son."

          For in Scripture - especially this side of Grace - Behaviour is meant to be impacted by awareness of Identity, not...the other way around.

          1 Corinthians 6:11 And such WERE some of you: but ye ARE washed, but ye ARE sanctified, but ye ARE justified IN the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY the Spirit of OUR God.

          Rom. 5:6-8.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Danoh View Post
            GO, you have Law and Grace...confused.

            The Law was PERFORMANCE Based Acceptance.

            In contrast, Grace is ACCEPTED IN The Beloved BASED Acceptance.

            The Law pointed to one's Identity in Adam through the Behaviour it pointed out in one.

            Grace points one to one's Identity in Christ through pointing to Him - to what He ALONE accomplished.

            Galatians 2:20 I AM crucified WITH Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.

            Galatians 6:15 For IN Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

            Under Grace, neither Circumcision (not even that one time Behavior) nor Uncircumcision (lack of having engaged in said one time Behavior) availeth ANYTHING before God.

            Rather, a new Identity IN His Son does.

            Rom. 5:6-8.
            You are the one that is confused, but that is only because of 1,600 years of Christianity distorting the meanings of faith and grace, beginning with the heresies that Augustine brought into the Church.

            Don't be deceived.
            The Bible is clear that God is not a respecter of identity when it comes to judging us for our sins.
            Learn to read what is written.

            _____
            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

            Comment


            • Originally posted by quip View Post
              I know this post is over a year old but....lol!

              If he'd lose the coin toss bet "half the time" then it is indeed a 50/50 proposition.

              The odds of a coin coming up heads 99 times is indeed astronomical (else something's amiss) yet, his scenario is a hypothetical.
              iff (if and only if) the coin (fairly) came up heads 99 times there would still be a 50/50 chance on turn 100.
              You go with Dante.

              Comment


              • Fact : Homosexuality is no more a "choice " than the color of you hair and eyes, whether you are right or left handed etc . Everyone is born either heterosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual .Period .
                Why would people "choose " to be gay in a world that is so hostile to them ? Does this make any sense ? The exact reasons why some people are gay are still not known exactly .
                One theory, and it sounds pretty plausible to me, is hormones in the womb which are transmitted from mother to baby . Scientific evidence seems to show that if you are male, the more older brothers one has , the more likely you are to be gay . The late Dr. Oliver Sacks, an eminent English neurologist , was the youngest of four boys, for example, and there are numerous other examples of famous gay men who were the youngest of several boys in their families .
                I don't know about women, though . But some women are lesbians, period .
                At adolescence , you become attracted to members of the opposite sex if you are heterosexual, and if you are gay , you become attracted members of the same sex . It's that simple .
                I'm heterosexual because I felt attracted to the opposite sex when about 12 or 13 .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                  Fact : Homosexuality is no more a "choice " than the color of you hair and eyes, whether you are right or left handed etc . Everyone is born either heterosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual .Period .
                  Prove it.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                    Everyone is born either heterosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual.
                    Nope.

                    People can — get this — choose who they have sex with.
                    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                    E≈mc2
                    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                    -Bob B.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                      Everyone is born either heterosexual, homosexual or bi-sexual .
                      False. Sexual attraction is fluid and changes throughout a person's life.
                      Most homosexuals have rejected heterosexuality because of a traumatic instance in their life or an environment that led to them rejecting heterosexuality or embracing homosexuality at an early age, even before they are aware of when they made that decision.
                      Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                      The exact reasons why some people are gay are still not known exactly .
                      The reasons are not know exactly for any particular person, but the environmental factors are generally known.
                      Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                      Scientific evidence seems to show that if you are male, the more older brothers one has , the more likely you are to be gay .
                      So, the more older brothers one has, the more likely one will be abused by an older brother?
                      That is an environmental factor.
                      Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                      I don't know about women, though . But some women are lesbians, period .
                      Most lesbians can point to a specific instance (or more) where they were sexually assaulted by a male that caused them to reject heterosexuality.
                      Learn to read what is written.

                      _____
                      The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                      ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                        Prove it.
                        Why would anyone "choose " to be gay in a world which is so hostile to gay people ? Why do Christian parents who teach their children that homosexuality is "an abomination" give birth to gay children ?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                          Why would anyone "choose " to be gay in a world which is so hostile to gay people?
                          The world is hostile to gay people?



                          Why do Christian parents who teach their children that homosexuality is "an abomination" give birth to gay children ?
                          They don't give birth to gay children.

                          Stop asking loaded questions.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                            Why would anyone "choose " to be gay in a world which is so hostile to gay people ?
                            I explained it in my previous post quoted here:
                            Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                            Sexual attraction is fluid and changes throughout a person's life.
                            Most homosexuals have rejected heterosexuality because of a traumatic instance in their life or an environment that led to them rejecting heterosexuality or embracing homosexuality at an early age, even before they are aware of when they made that decision.

                            The reasons are not know exactly for any particular person, but the environmental factors are generally known.

                            So, the more older brothers one has, the more likely one will be abused by an older brother?
                            That is an environmental factor.

                            Most lesbians can point to a specific instance (or more) where they were sexually assaulted by a male that caused them to reject heterosexuality.
                            A lot of gay people can point to a specific point in their life when they chose to reject heterosexuality or chose to embrace homosexuality.
                            Some gay people repress the memories of the abusive events that led them to make that choice.
                            Some gay people are raised in an environment that pushed them into that choice at such an early age that they just can't remember making the choice.
                            You can't point to a universal cause that makes people choose to be gay, but you can eliminate the idea that people are born gay.

                            Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                            Why do Christian parents who teach their children that homosexuality is "an abomination" give birth to gay children ?
                            Nobody gives birth to gay children.
                            Most gay people don't recognize the choice they made until around puberty, which is the same age that most heterosexual people start desire the opposite sex.
                            Learn to read what is written.

                            _____
                            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                            Comment


                            • Every single day, children are born who will eventually prove to be gay . This has been happening from the very beginning of the human race ages ago ( not 6,000 years ago ! ) .
                              I don't know how many babies have been born today all over the world as I am writing this post on September 14th, but some will definitely turn out to be gay . You can be absolutely sure of this .
                              Some have been born to parents who are Christians who "disapprove" of homosexuality because of what they have been taught to believe about it, which is terribly unfortunate, because they are going to face terrible problems once their sexual identity is known . I really pity these children who have been born into such conditions.
                              Others have parents who are tolerant , accepting and supportive, and they are very fortunate.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                                Every single day, children are born who will eventually prove choose to be gay.
                                Similarly, many will choose to be child molesters

                                Many will choose to be rapists

                                Many will choose to be murderers

                                Comment

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