Dear Lon

fzappa13

Well-known member
:think:
Spoiler
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You'll be happy to know I didn't anticipate that.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Lawyers come in four primary colors; defense attorneys, ambulance chasers, will/deed writers and prosecution (otherwise known as the dark side to the rest.) Dichotomies abound for such folks but are seldom embraced. I suppose it makes it easier to sleep that way. I dunno.
Even gun control covers a difference between individual and the rights of society at large. Another example, I would love to rid this world of some of their indulgences, but alas, those are my abstinences.While I may not want another to have my specific right, I understand some of the equalization to at least a minimal degree. Always agree with the agenda of law? :nono: But sometimes. It would seem to make us all a bit schizophrenic but I think rather we are playing out our principles while being in the world, but not of it and a lawyer would be no different, they are easier targets.
We have to be careful about judging another's leniency or indulgence. We are not each other's servants, but His. For me, it comes down again to which of the two symbols represent the Constitution and the people of the US, so I'd think you could empathize with the Ten Commandments vs the Confederate flag, but more on this later here in post:

My whole point in that now defunct thread was that our wouldbe societal manipulators ascribe different meanings to these symbols over time for their own purposes. They become strawmen to be burnt on the altar of public opinion for the purpose of manipulating said opinion. Most folks who rail against the ten commandments couldn't tell you what they say. In like manner most folks who rail against the stars and bars couldn't tell you what the many issues of the day were just, "Lincoln freed the slaves" and so now the stars and bars have become nothing more than an intellectual shorthand for societal bigotry in much the same way the ten commandments have become an intellectual shorthand for religious bigotry.
The chasm on this is wider, however, of what they actually stand for. On this point, it is sure that they didn't and don't represent the Northern states, but I think if it is immensely important, you Southern folks should write your congressmen. It may be an issue that needs re-visitation, perhaps when the next president is in office, but I'd like to see the connection more clearly between this and the Ten Commandments. I'm seeing them as two separate monuments, two separate reasons they exist, and two separate reasons why one should stay up and/or the other come down.
At least Neal Young was man enough to later be chagrined at his own gross oversimplifications of the south but I won't be holding my breath waiting for TH to do likewise.
Probably because EVERYONE knows that song!
"I hope Neil Young will remember..."



Nah, I often edit what I have written, sometimes extensively, and so I tend to let the dust settle before responding.
It was a just in case you'd seen. I appreciate the non-offense of your good nature but apologize for the inept on my part never-the-less. Thanks.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I have noted that there are many mouths and few ears amongst those that claim Christ. If you have an ear you are uniquely blessed.
Well a bit of Irony: I always notice that there are often many more "Guests" lurking on TOL than members (especially during Battle Royales). That means 1) that perhaps there are more listeners AND 2) we are the few doing the talking :eek:
 

Lon

Well-known member
I helped Matt Ward divest himself of the band's musical gear after he decided it would be easier to travel around singing to a DAT tape. Sad days indeed.
But a very cool memory, sad or otherwise. I've met a few while working at Dightman's in WA, but always tried to keep Keith Green's words on my mind: "we are not stars, but brothers and sisters and fellow servants."

I was simply thankful for the input they had on my young walk.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
But a very cool memory, sad or otherwise. I've met a few while working at Dightman's in WA, but always tried to keep Keith Green's words on my mind: "we are not stars, but brothers and sisters and fellow servants."

I was simply thankful for the input they had on my young walk.

Matt was a part of a group of Contemporary Christian artists that fled California when said state went about taxing home studios as a commercial venture. They landed just north of Tyler, Texas in an area I came to call "little Jerusalem." He used to sniff permanent markers while recording at Rosewood studios ... I know, you didn't want to hear that either. :eek: His drummer used to sit in with the band I was in when they came in off the road. We were the only ones that would let him sing "Dock of the Bay" unmolested.
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Well a bit of Irony: I always notice that there are often many more "Guests" lurking on TOL than members (especially during Battle Royales). That means 1) that perhaps there are more listeners AND 2) we are the few doing the talking :eek:

Well, 1) you are assuming all lurkers are Christian and 2) well, let's just say that not all of us hang on every utterance in a "Battle Royal" and participation in and attendance of such affairs is, shall we say, "limited?"
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Originally Posted by fzappa13
My whole point in that now defunct thread was that our wouldbe societal manipulators ascribe different meanings to these symbols over time for their own purposes. They become strawmen to be burnt on the altar of public opinion for the purpose of manipulating said opinion. Most folks who rail against the ten commandments couldn't tell you what they say. In like manner most folks who rail against the stars and bars couldn't tell you what the many issues of the day were just, "Lincoln freed the slaves" and so now the stars and bars have become nothing more than an intellectual shorthand for societal bigotry in much the same way the ten commandments have become an intellectual shorthand for religious bigotry.

The chasm on this is wider, however, of what they actually stand for. On this point, it is sure that they didn't and don't represent the Northern states, but I think if it is immensely important, you Southern folks should write your congressmen. It may be an issue that needs re-visitation, perhaps when the next president is in office, but I'd like to see the connection more clearly between this and the Ten Commandments. I'm seeing them as two separate monuments, two separate reasons they exist, and two separate reasons why one should stay up and/or the other come down.


“You Southern folks” … funny.

I was raised in the suburbs of D.C. and was inculcated with the contempt in which the Southerner is held in the New England area. It's not a theory … I lived it. So, as you might imagine, I was somewhat taken aback when I found myself in their midst at the age of 16. I was in abject misery. It was some number of years before I garnered an appreciation for the culture and, more importantly, the history of the region.

I had an epiphany of sorts one night while watching David Sanborn (an eminent Jazz saxophonist) deride the South while hosting a musical variety show. I remember thinking to myself, “Ya know David, if you had to pick a preeminent Jazz college on the planet it is probably sitting in Denton, Texas.” I quit watching the show … yeah, I know, sort of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I said all that to suggest this; we embrace much if not most of what we think about the world through school and media. There are folks who are well aware of this and have achieved control of these resources for their own purposes. They do not have your best interest at heart. To the contrary, they seek to divide us by any means available. North/South, Black/White, Male/Female … fill in the blanks for yourself. We are being pitted against each other so we do not focus on them and what they are doing until it is too late.

I remember going at it hammer and tong with a school district that was trying to abandon a campus it had fallen heir to through consolidation because they used to be a hated football rival. I found out some time later through his daughter that the lone black man on the School Board voted for this because he had lost his teaching job through forced integration and he felt duty bound to visit the same upon whom he could as a result.

Rubbing salt in the wounds of a perceived enemy seldom elicits anything but more of the same. Telling people they can't fly a flag or honor the ten commandments only strengthens the resolve of those that would and that is exactly the intent of those who would pit us against each other. They seek to have us quibble amongst ourselves while they go about their business. Unless and until we see past their machinations we will forever be slaves to them.
 

PureX

Well-known member
When confronted with frightening circumstances that we can neither fully understand, nor correct, it's a common reaction for people to turn instead to some petty, emblematic aspect of the overall problem, so as to feel as if we have engaged with something that we can comprehend, and could change, without having to face the whole, real, and overwhelming problem confronting us.

Thus, we bicker in this country about race, and gender, and sexual proclivities, and religious difference, and whatever else, so that we don't have to acknowledge that we are really up against a problem that is too big and scary for us to grapple with, effectively. Which is that we have lost control of our own government, and economy, to the point where we are now being forcibly enslaved, and exploited, by both of them.
 

PureX

Well-known member
He said things are out of control so we pick things we think we can control or at least distract ourselves with and beat them like a conga drum to drown out the sucking sound.
Yep, pretty much.

And I really wish we didn't do this, because all the while the real problem gets worse, and gets all the more difficult to correct. It may now be impossible to correct, I fear. At least not without a serious political and economic revolution. And I don't see that happening.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Yep, pretty much.

And I really wish we didn't do this, because all the while the real problem gets worse, and gets all the more difficult to correct. It may now be impossible to correct, I fear. At least not without a serious political and economic revolution. And I don't see that happening.

Well, there's always the second coming ...
 

PureX

Well-known member
Well, there's always the second coming ...
I'm 58 years old. And just hoping I don't end up freezing to death under a bridge somewhere after the next republican "regime" has had it's way. People's actual lives mean less and less in a land that's governed by greed. If we don't work to increase profits to the investor class, we are considered parasites in the profit machine. And we will be eradicated, accordingly. They're preaching this horrific dogma, already, when they blame the poor for being poor, and the sick for being sick, and admonishing the rest of us to let them suffer their own 'just rewards'. No health care. No food stamps. No Social Security, No welfare ... and way too many of us are falling for it.

This is not an environment one wants to find themselves getting old, in.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
I'm 58 years old. And just hoping I don't end up freezing to death under a bridge somewhere after the next republican "regime" has had it's way. People's actual lives mean less and less in a land that's governed by greed. If we don't work to increase profits to the investor class, we are considered parasites in the profit machine. And we will be eradicated, accordingly. Their preaching this horrific dogma, already, when they blame the poor for being poor, and the sick for being sick, and admonishing the rest of us to let them suffer their own 'rewards'. And way too many of us are falling for it.

This is not an environment one wants to find themselves getting old, in.

The middle class is on its way out for sure. But, there are worse fates than being poor. Time for another hit off of Marx' opium pipe, I reckon.
 

PureX

Well-known member
The middle class is on its way out for sure. But, there are worse fates than being poor. Time for another hit off of Marx' opium pipe, I reckon.
In a culture where money equals survival, there is no worse fate than having none, because you can't survive.

The overlords now own everything. They own the means of producing food, clothing, shelter, transportation, and communication. They own the means of producing everything we need to live. And we have to work for them, now, for money, to buy these things from them if we want to live. Money is the key to everything, now. Money = freedom. Money = life. Money = security. Money = opportunity. While having no money = imprisonment, hopeless, and eventually, death.

This is why our culture worship money above all else. Because it's money that gives us life. And this is exactly how the overlords (capital investors) want to keep it. Because it makes them our demigods; our almighty "job providers" (meaning paycheck providers). It makes them the people in charge of everything we need to live. And they are in charge of these, now. Totally and completely. They are the masters of our fate. And we're too frightened and ashamed to even admit this to ourselves. To admit that we have allowed them to subjugate us to such a total and humiliating degree. To enslave us through our own stupid fear, greed, and ignorance.

So we busy ourselves blaming it all on each other. Chasing down one scapegoat after another, so we don't have to see that we are the cowards. That we have allowed ourselves to become enslaved while we endlessly preached and touted our love of freedom and self-sufficiency. When in fact, we have been anything but free, or self-sufficient.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
In a culture where money equals survival, there is no worse fate than having none, because you can't survive.

The overlords now own everything. They own the means of producing food, clothing, shelter, transportation, and communication. They own the means of producing everything we need to live. And we have to work for them, now, for money, to buy these things from them if we want to live. Money is the key to everything, now. Money = freedom. Money = life. Money = security. Money = opportunity. While no money = imprisonment, hopeless, and eventually, death.

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
I see little comfort, here. Especially when the people who claim to believe this are working as enforcers for the overlords.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
I see little comfort, here. Especially when the people who claim to believe this are working as enforcers for the overlords.

In the end that's what it all boils down to .. whether there is a God who rewards good and punishes evil, or, there isn't and in the words of that eminent philosopher John Cougar Mellencamp, "Nothin' matters and what if it did?"

I'm banking on the former ... wadda ya got to lose?
 

Lon

Well-known member
“You Southern folks” … funny.

I was raised in the suburbs of D.C. and was inculcated with the contempt in which the Southerner is held in the New England area. It's not a theory … I lived it. So, as you might imagine, I was somewhat taken aback when I found myself in their midst at the age of 16. I was in abject misery. It was some number of years before I garnered an appreciation for the culture and, more importantly, the history of the region.
As per my rep, I think I'd like to hear more about your background. I 'assumed' because it was the Confederate flag, we were talking about a Southern concern.

I had an epiphany of sorts one night while watching David Sanborn (an eminent Jazz saxophonist) deride the South while hosting a musical variety show. I remember thinking to myself, “Ya know David, if you had to pick a preeminent Jazz college on the planet it is probably sitting in Denton, Texas.” I quit watching the show … yeah, I know, sort of cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Well, you and Lynyrd Skynyrd, so probably good company.
I said all that to suggest this; we embrace much if not most of what we think about the world through school and media. There are folks who are well aware of this and have achieved control of these resources for their own purposes. They do not have your best interest at heart. To the contrary, they seek to divide us by any means available. North/South, Black/White, Male/Female … fill in the blanks for yourself. We are being pitted against each other so we do not focus on them and what they are doing until it is too late.
There is already division and what you are talking about is surely happening as well. That is the point of a lot of politics since the beginnings of the 60's. 50 years of it certainly has to affect our culture.
Patrick Henry comes often to mind when thinking on the ills and looking for the answers. He said a lot of important things, I think, most specifically to Christians. He'd wake us up from a terrible slumber. I don't think we slumber, but lack organization yet.
I remember going at it hammer and tong with a school district that was trying to abandon a campus it had fallen heir to through consolidation because they used to be a hated football rival. I found out some time later through his daughter that the lone black man on the School Board voted for this because he had lost his teaching job through forced integration and he felt duty bound to visit the same upon whom he could as a result.
:(
Rubbing salt in the wounds of a perceived enemy seldom elicits anything but more of the same. Telling people they can't fly a flag or honor the ten commandments only strengthens the resolve of those that would and that is exactly the intent of those who would pit us against each other. They seek to have us quibble amongst ourselves while they go about their business. Unless and until we see past their machinations we will forever be slaves to them.
So are you agreeing with Town on this? Or simply telling me he should be consistent? I think I understand both. Either way, I think a thread like this helps give perspective, but I'm yet trying to see the connection between the Union Jack and Ten Commandments. For me, I was shocked that it was flying on Capitol grounds yet. I had assumed that the end of the war had united the states once again. On that, perhaps a history lesson is in order, as you say. I wasn't taught anything regarding the Confederate flag in school, nor did I learn that the South had legitimate concerns during that war, until college (I wonder if that history teacher had tenure very long). :think:
 
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