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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lon View Post
    I didn't think you looked that old. I was listening to Keith Green, Benny Hester, and Petra at that time. Michael and Stormy Omartian and 2nd Chapter of Acts too. I began attending Multnomah Bible College just two years after this.
    I helped Matt Ward divest himself of the band's musical gear after he decided it would be easier to travel around singing to a DAT tape. Sad days indeed.
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lon View Post
      I think lawyers have to live with a dichotomy between 'freedom for all' and 'against my values' that the rest of us do not share. Should it be that way? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.
      I would suggest that we all eventually have to face a choice between our principals and life's demands. A faith untried is no faith. What differentiates us is our response to this dichotomy ... not our chosen avocation.
      Last edited by fzappa13; December 21st, 2015, 09:52 AM.
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
        I would suggest that we all eventually have to face a choice between our principals and life's demands. A faith untried is no faith. What differentiates us is our response to this dichotomy.
        There is also the realization that I don't know all there is to know on any given subject therefore I listen and learn.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bybee View Post
          There is also the realization that I don't know all there is to know on any given subject therefore I listen and learn.
          I have noted that there are many mouths and few ears amongst those that claim Christ. If you have an ear you are uniquely blessed.
          Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
            I have noted that there are many mouths and few ears amongst those that claim Christ. If you have an ear you are uniquely blessed.

            Spoiler

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ok doser View Post

              Spoiler
              You'll be happy to know I didn't anticipate that.
              Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                Lawyers come in four primary colors; defense attorneys, ambulance chasers, will/deed writers and prosecution (otherwise known as the dark side to the rest.) Dichotomies abound for such folks but are seldom embraced. I suppose it makes it easier to sleep that way. I dunno.
                Even gun control covers a difference between individual and the rights of society at large. Another example, I would love to rid this world of some of their indulgences, but alas, those are my abstinences.While I may not want another to have my specific right, I understand some of the equalization to at least a minimal degree. Always agree with the agenda of law? But sometimes. It would seem to make us all a bit schizophrenic but I think rather we are playing out our principles while being in the world, but not of it and a lawyer would be no different, they are easier targets.
                We have to be careful about judging another's leniency or indulgence. We are not each other's servants, but His. For me, it comes down again to which of the two symbols represent the Constitution and the people of the US, so I'd think you could empathize with the Ten Commandments vs the Confederate flag, but more on this later here in post:

                Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                My whole point in that now defunct thread was that our wouldbe societal manipulators ascribe different meanings to these symbols over time for their own purposes. They become strawmen to be burnt on the altar of public opinion for the purpose of manipulating said opinion. Most folks who rail against the ten commandments couldn't tell you what they say. In like manner most folks who rail against the stars and bars couldn't tell you what the many issues of the day were just, "Lincoln freed the slaves" and so now the stars and bars have become nothing more than an intellectual shorthand for societal bigotry in much the same way the ten commandments have become an intellectual shorthand for religious bigotry.
                The chasm on this is wider, however, of what they actually stand for. On this point, it is sure that they didn't and don't represent the Northern states, but I think if it is immensely important, you Southern folks should write your congressmen. It may be an issue that needs re-visitation, perhaps when the next president is in office, but I'd like to see the connection more clearly between this and the Ten Commandments. I'm seeing them as two separate monuments, two separate reasons they exist, and two separate reasons why one should stay up and/or the other come down.
                Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                At least Neal Young was man enough to later be chagrined at his own gross oversimplifications of the south but I won't be holding my breath waiting for TH to do likewise.
                Probably because EVERYONE knows that song!
                "I hope Neil Young will remember..."



                Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                Nah, I often edit what I have written, sometimes extensively, and so I tend to let the dust settle before responding.
                It was a just in case you'd seen. I appreciate the non-offense of your good nature but apologize for the inept on my part never-the-less. Thanks.
                My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                ? Yep

                Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by musterion View Post
                  It's how I envision Granite, Artie, Alwight and a few others herebouts.
                  So your identity is based on slandering others … I guess that makes sense. Sad as it is.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                    I have noted that there are many mouths and few ears amongst those that claim Christ. If you have an ear you are uniquely blessed.
                    Well a bit of Irony: I always notice that there are often many more "Guests" lurking on TOL than members (especially during Battle Royales). That means 1) that perhaps there are more listeners AND 2) we are the few doing the talking
                    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                    ? Yep

                    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                    ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fzappa13 View Post
                      I helped Matt Ward divest himself of the band's musical gear after he decided it would be easier to travel around singing to a DAT tape. Sad days indeed.
                      But a very cool memory, sad or otherwise. I've met a few while working at Dightman's in WA, but always tried to keep Keith Green's words on my mind: "we are not stars, but brothers and sisters and fellow servants."

                      I was simply thankful for the input they had on my young walk.
                      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                      ? Yep

                      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lon View Post
                        But a very cool memory, sad or otherwise. I've met a few while working at Dightman's in WA, but always tried to keep Keith Green's words on my mind: "we are not stars, but brothers and sisters and fellow servants."

                        I was simply thankful for the input they had on my young walk.
                        Matt was a part of a group of Contemporary Christian artists that fled California when said state went about taxing home studios as a commercial venture. They landed just north of Tyler, Texas in an area I came to call "little Jerusalem." He used to sniff permanent markers while recording at Rosewood studios ... I know, you didn't want to hear that either. His drummer used to sit in with the band I was in when they came in off the road. We were the only ones that would let him sing "Dock of the Bay" unmolested.
                        Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lon View Post
                          Well a bit of Irony: I always notice that there are often many more "Guests" lurking on TOL than members (especially during Battle Royales). That means 1) that perhaps there are more listeners AND 2) we are the few doing the talking
                          Well, 1) you are assuming all lurkers are Christian and 2) well, let's just say that not all of us hang on every utterance in a "Battle Royal" and participation in and attendance of such affairs is, shall we say, "limited?"
                          Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally Posted by fzappa13
                            My whole point in that now defunct thread was that our wouldbe societal manipulators ascribe different meanings to these symbols over time for their own purposes. They become strawmen to be burnt on the altar of public opinion for the purpose of manipulating said opinion. Most folks who rail against the ten commandments couldn't tell you what they say. In like manner most folks who rail against the stars and bars couldn't tell you what the many issues of the day were just, "Lincoln freed the slaves" and so now the stars and bars have become nothing more than an intellectual shorthand for societal bigotry in much the same way the ten commandments have become an intellectual shorthand for religious bigotry.
                            Originally posted by Lon View Post
                            The chasm on this is wider, however, of what they actually stand for. On this point, it is sure that they didn't and don't represent the Northern states, but I think if it is immensely important, you Southern folks should write your congressmen. It may be an issue that needs re-visitation, perhaps when the next president is in office, but I'd like to see the connection more clearly between this and the Ten Commandments. I'm seeing them as two separate monuments, two separate reasons they exist, and two separate reasons why one should stay up and/or the other come down.

                            “You Southern folks” … funny.

                            I was raised in the suburbs of D.C. and was inculcated with the contempt in which the Southerner is held in the New England area. It's not a theory … I lived it. So, as you might imagine, I was somewhat taken aback when I found myself in their midst at the age of 16. I was in abject misery. It was some number of years before I garnered an appreciation for the culture and, more importantly, the history of the region.

                            I had an epiphany of sorts one night while watching David Sanborn (an eminent Jazz saxophonist) deride the South while hosting a musical variety show. I remember thinking to myself, “Ya know David, if you had to pick a preeminent Jazz college on the planet it is probably sitting in Denton, Texas.” I quit watching the show … yeah, I know, sort of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

                            I said all that to suggest this; we embrace much if not most of what we think about the world through school and media. There are folks who are well aware of this and have achieved control of these resources for their own purposes. They do not have your best interest at heart. To the contrary, they seek to divide us by any means available. North/South, Black/White, Male/Female … fill in the blanks for yourself. We are being pitted against each other so we do not focus on them and what they are doing until it is too late.

                            I remember going at it hammer and tong with a school district that was trying to abandon a campus it had fallen heir to through consolidation because they used to be a hated football rival. I found out some time later through his daughter that the lone black man on the School Board voted for this because he had lost his teaching job through forced integration and he felt duty bound to visit the same upon whom he could as a result.

                            Rubbing salt in the wounds of a perceived enemy seldom elicits anything but more of the same. Telling people they can't fly a flag or honor the ten commandments only strengthens the resolve of those that would and that is exactly the intent of those who would pit us against each other. They seek to have us quibble amongst ourselves while they go about their business. Unless and until we see past their machinations we will forever be slaves to them.
                            Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              When confronted with frightening circumstances that we can neither fully understand, nor correct, it's a common reaction for people to turn instead to some petty, emblematic aspect of the overall problem, so as to feel as if we have engaged with something that we can comprehend, and could change, without having to face the whole, real, and overwhelming problem confronting us.

                              Thus, we bicker in this country about race, and gender, and sexual proclivities, and religious difference, and whatever else, so that we don't have to acknowledge that we are really up against a problem that is too big and scary for us to grapple with, effectively. Which is that we have lost control of our own government, and economy, to the point where we are now being forcibly enslaved, and exploited, by both of them.

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                              • #30
                                What he said ...
                                Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle.

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