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  • Originally posted by 6days View Post
    Most geneticists no longer use this method of 'evolution on steroids' since it doesn't work.
    Originally posted by Daedalean's_Sun View Post
    Originally posted by 6days View Post

    ... it essentially backs what I said. (Other than he says there is an increase of this method...)
    > TheologyOnline's resident Agnostic Pantheist and self-proclaimed Science Advocate. Defeating pseudoscience at locations near you.


    "I am but a student to all religions and an adherent of none."

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    • I should start a whole thread dedicated to all the times 6days made a claim, information was presented showing precisely the opposite, and then he proceeds to claim that it (too) is evidence of his position.
      > TheologyOnline's resident Agnostic Pantheist and self-proclaimed Science Advocate. Defeating pseudoscience at locations near you.


      "I am but a student to all religions and an adherent of none."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Daedalean's_Sun View Post
        I should start a whole thread dedicated to all the times 6days made a claim, information was presented showing precisely the opposite, and then he proceeds to claim that it (too) is evidence of his position.
        Evolution on steroids basically doesn't work. Wait..... Backtrack..
        There have been mutations to seeds that caused a beneficial outcome to humans, but invariably a genetically weaker plant, such as the canola I mentioned.
        The article mentions some geneticists still use that method (mutagenesis) because of countries that ban GMO's. But plant 'breeding'.....using the info that God has programmed into the genome is far more effective.
        Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Daedalean's_Sun View Post
          I should start a whole thread dedicated to all the times 6days made a claim, information was presented showing precisely the opposite, and then he proceeds to claim that it (too) is evidence of his position.
          It is obvious that 6days has a few screws loose, but he thinks that reciting his memorized "Christian" dogma louder will just miraculously cover up the apparent defective thinking he exhibits consistently. He is a quack and that foolish grimace in his pic is quite indicative of his mental disturbance.
          Militant Moderate

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          • Originally posted by User Name View Post
            It is also true that for upwards of the past century, mutation breeding has been used successfully in a wide variety of crops, for example:
            [R]adiation breeding has produced thousands of useful mutants and a sizable fraction of the world’s crops...including varieties of rice, wheat, barley, pears, peas, cotton, peppermint, sunflowers, peanuts, grapefruit, sesame, bananas, cassava and sorghum...The mutations can improve yield, quality, taste, size and resistance to disease and can help plants adapt to diverse climates and conditions...Peanuts got tougher hulls. Barley, oats and wheat got better yields...In 1929, farmers stumbled on the Ruby Red grapefruit, a natural mutant. Its flesh eventually faded to pink, however, and scientists fired radiation to produce mutants of deeper color — Star Ruby, released in 1971, and Rio Red, released in 1985. The mutant offspring now account for about 75 percent of all grapefruit grown in Texas.

            Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/28/sc...anted=all&_r=0

            So I think we should be cautious in our use of these techniques, but optimistically so in light of the successes that have been demonstrated.
            The optimism is spawned from the assumption of the truth of evolution. The "successes" are colors, flavors and bug "resistance," but the changes are certain to come with a cost. That cost will be discovered in the adaptablility of the crops to more changes.

            However, with evolutionary blinkers on, these costs will never be searched for.

            The NAS further states that "there do not appear to be outstanding examples of mutant varieties with documented unexpected effects beyond what the mutant was selected for, despite the expectation that mutant varieties may possess and generate more unexpected outcomes than ordinary crosses because of the unpredictable and uncontrollable nature of nontargeted mutations. Furthermore, there do not appear to be any examples in which mutant varieties were removed from the market due to unintended or unexpected adverse incidents." (Source: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10977&page=45 )
            I do not think the bad effects will crop up in downstream systems. People will probably not get sick eating GM food (though there might be cases where the protections foods can provide might be eroded by mutations). The bad effects will be found in the robustness of the crops' genomes.
            Where is the evidence for a global flood?
            E≈mc2
            "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

            "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
            -Bob B.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 1God4all View Post
              If you had any inkling of what evolution was or how it worked you'd see that his post fit into the worldview perfectly.
              Evolution is the idea that all life is descended from a universal common ancestor by means of random mutation and natural selection.

              And you're a troll.
              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
              E≈mc2
              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
              -Bob B.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                Entertain us then by explaining how you measure the one way only speed if light
                Talking to cabinethead is never entertaining.
                Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                E≈mc2
                "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                -Bob B.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                  Evolution is the idea that all life is descended from a universal common ancestor by means of random mutation and natural selection.

                  And you're a troll.
                  Evolution doesn't designate a single ancestor or number of common ancestors. It only claims to explain how the huge variety of species today came about.
                  It also explains why some animals are unique to only one part of the world.

                  Tell me, if all animals were on the ark, and all spread out from wherever the ark came to rest, why are kangaroos and platypus found only on Australia?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 1God4all View Post
                    Tell me, if all animals were on the ark, and all spread out from wherever the ark came to rest, why are kangaroos and platypus found only on Australia?
                    Because they died out everywhere else.

                    That's the same explanation that must be true no matter where they came from. One wonders why you could not have thought that through.
                    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                    E≈mc2
                    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                    -Bob B.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                      However, with evolutionary blinkers on, these costs will never be searched for.
                      The costs generally are known though. Mutagenesis invariably weakens the organism. We don't hear about the thousands of experiments that end in failure (dwarfed, sickly, sterile etc). The 'successes' are a success to benefit humans, but not the plant.

                      Its not so different from breeding animals. Lyyn Margulis an evolutionary biologist (Once married to Carl Sagan) explained "This is the issue I have with neo-Darwinists: They teach what is generating novelty is the accumulation of random mutations in DNA, in a direction set by natural selection. If you want bigger eggs, you keep selecting the hens that are laying the biggest eggs, and you get bigger and bigger eggs. But you also get hens with defective feathers and wobbly legs. Natural selection eliminates and maybe maintains, but it doesn’t create."
                      Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                        The costs generally are known though. Mutagenesis invariably weakens the organism. We don't hear about the thousands of experiments that end in failure (dwarfed, sickly, sterile etc). The 'successes' are a success to benefit humans, but not the plant.
                        I think that is a separate issue, though certainly relevant. What I am speaking of is the necessary degradation of the genome — the combined genetic material of the entire population — not just cases of individuals being harmed.

                        The evolutionary view is that the few individuals that are selected for their new traits represent an advance to the overall population. They will not search among the population's genome for evidence that shows it has not been improved.

                        It would be a pretty simple thing to test if a genome degrades after what evolutionists would call a "successful" selection process.
                        Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                        E≈mc2
                        "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                        "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                        -Bob B.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
                          IF you get bored of talking genetics with Stripe, get him started on the speed of light. Equally entertaining.
                          Let me guess--the speed of light was orders of magnitude faster at creation and then dramatically slowed down. A Barry Settergren (?) acolyte.
                          "Auto correct has become my worst enema."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                            Evolution is the idea that all life is descended from a universal common ancestor by means of random mutation and natural selection.
                            I think it would be more correct to say that evolution is the idea that all life is descended from a last universal ancestor by means of variation and selection. There are numerous causes of variation, mutation being only one of them. There are also several processes of selection.

                            Selection acts on variation, and variation has a number of causes, including mutations, gene flow, gene duplication and recombination.

                            Types of selection include natural selection, sexual selection, and artificial selection.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by User Name View Post
                              Correct.
                              So much for the troll's assertion then.
                              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                              E≈mc2
                              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                              -Bob B.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                                Mutagenesis invariably weakens the organism.
                                Incorrect.

                                We don't hear about the thousands of experiments that end in failure (dwarfed, sickly, sterile etc).
                                There are supposed to be failures. This is what selection means. How is this still escaping you?

                                The 'successes' are a success to benefit humans, but not the plant.
                                Well, it's both actually, since a plant that shrivels up and dies is hardly any use to humans. A Hardy crop is to the benefit of both. Being pest resistant is of benefit to both crops and humans. Being drought resistant is of benefit to both crops and humans, etc..

                                Its not so different from breeding animals. Lyyn Margulis an evolutionary biologist (Once married to Carl Sagan) explained "This is the issue I have with neo-Darwinists: They teach what is generating novelty is the accumulation of random mutations in DNA, in a direction set by natural selection. If you want bigger eggs, you keep selecting the hens that are laying the biggest eggs, and you get bigger and bigger eggs. But you also get hens with defective feathers and wobbly legs. Natural selection eliminates and maybe maintains, but it doesn’t create."
                                If you are only selecting for bigger eggs and ignoring other traits that may be harmful, then sure, of course nature doesn't do that. Lynn Margulis, certainly believes evolution though she believes that biosymbiosis, rather than mutation, is the primary force driving the formation of new traits.
                                > TheologyOnline's resident Agnostic Pantheist and self-proclaimed Science Advocate. Defeating pseudoscience at locations near you.


                                "I am but a student to all religions and an adherent of none."

                                Comment

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