Real Science Friday: Human & Dino Footprints are Real
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
- Status
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
No...it is believed that there was a higher oxygen level during the late Jurassic and was considered one of the reasons (along with the K-T event) that the large reptilian Dinosaurs died out, but man didn't come on the scene until the Cenozoic era.
Lightbringer. I realize that you dont believe man came on the scene until the late cenozoic. I believe man has been here since the archean. That was the start of the recolonization of the earth after the crust was demolished in the late hadean. Im just wondering how long oxygen levels were in an elevated state and if those levels would have been toxic to a modern human if we had similar levels today.
Alate_One
Well-known member
This is the historical (geologic timescale) record of atmospheric oxygen. It is low oxygen levels that tend to coincide with *low* oxygen levels.
The largest extinction in history, the Permo-Triassic is thought to have occurred when oxygen levels suddenly dropped from about 30% to 12%. The real problem with humans surviving in the past would probably not be high oxygen, but low oxygen since humans pass out at around 16% oxygen.
The largest extinction in history, the Permo-Triassic is thought to have occurred when oxygen levels suddenly dropped from about 30% to 12%. The real problem with humans surviving in the past would probably not be high oxygen, but low oxygen since humans pass out at around 16% oxygen.
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
That would be difficult if you follow science and which of the theories you prefer, since the Achean era was believed that the atmosphere was enriched in carbon oxides, water vapor, nitrous oxides, hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, methane and other noxious gases. Most notably, the Archean atmosphere was depleted in free oxygen. Humans need Oxygen in their atmosphere.
The Hadean era was originally believed to contain an atmosphere of Hydrogen, Helium and later Carbon dioxide as it cooled an evolved to what we have now approximately from 4.6-3.8 billion years ago. Would need to know specifically when Oxygen came on the scene to support humans.
A new theory (2008) puts that era (Achean and Hadean) at about 4 billions years ago.
Older literature combines the Archean with the Hadean era...?
Science is still learning and has some way to go before we will get a better understanding about how the Earth evolved.
If Oxygen levels were elevated to .30 or higher humans would have difficulty, the higher the level the faster the extinction...
If the theories are correct, humans could not have lived in that era.
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
This is the historical (geologic timescale) record of atmospheric oxygen. It is low oxygen levels that tend to coincide with *low* oxygen levels.
The largest extinction in history, the Permo-Triassic is thought to have occurred when oxygen levels suddenly dropped from about 30% to 12%.
:thumb: Good graph, I has seen one very similar explaining how the level of O2 had a direct effect on the creatures of the earth.
Thanks Alate One. With your link and what was on wikipedia, i determined the following. Oxygen levels peaked at one point in the carboniferous at 180 percent of modern levels. It was 130 percent of modern levels during the jurassic and 150 percent during the cretaceous. It has steadly dropped since then to current levels. It seems to me that animal anatomy was geared for high oxygen living from the permian to the appearance of modern mammals. I contend that todays mammals could not have survived during any of that time with their current anatomy and biochemistry.
Yes modern humans need 21 % oxygen in their atmosphere. Other animals seemed to have survived the permo-triassic low of 12%. Are you saying that archean levels were below 12% ? If so, I will only believe it if the same methodology was used to determine oxygen concentration in both the archean and the carboniferous. I realize a modern human could not survive at 12% oxygen concentration. I maintain that humans of the permo-triassic era had different anatomy, physiology and biochemistry. They still were more similar to modern humans than to any other species modern or ancient.
Abundant Archaean organic
carbon is a residual product
of photosynthetic oxygen
production. Microorganisms
have been reported from
carbonaceous rocks of the
Fig Tree Group of Swaziland
(3.4 billion A.G.Yr. old)12
and blue-green algae
remains occur in the 2.6
billion A.G. Yr. old Veal Reef
Carbon Seam of the
Witwatersrand Sequence.13
Archaean and Lower
Proterozoic shales and
mudstones sampled to
date average 0.7 wt % and
1.6 wt. % organic carbon
respectively.14 This
compares with the average
amount of 0.5 wt. % organic
carbon in Phanerozoic
shales and mudstones.15------------------- The first atmosphere: Geological evidences and their implications. Written by Andrew Snelling.
carbon is a residual product
of photosynthetic oxygen
production. Microorganisms
have been reported from
carbonaceous rocks of the
Fig Tree Group of Swaziland
(3.4 billion A.G.Yr. old)12
and blue-green algae
remains occur in the 2.6
billion A.G. Yr. old Veal Reef
Carbon Seam of the
Witwatersrand Sequence.13
Archaean and Lower
Proterozoic shales and
mudstones sampled to
date average 0.7 wt % and
1.6 wt. % organic carbon
respectively.14 This
compares with the average
amount of 0.5 wt. % organic
carbon in Phanerozoic
shales and mudstones.15------------------- The first atmosphere: Geological evidences and their implications. Written by Andrew Snelling.
zoo22
Well-known member
Dr (or is it "Dr?") Don Patton sure has some odd credentials (or are they "credentials?")
Strange. The critique you linked to thinks it's a real dino print. :idunno:
"I understand a bit more about how it was produced. A legitimate dinosaur track was found and removed."
Yeah, that doesn't look carved.
OK, let's take a look at the evidence! :up:
A dino walked through some mud and left footprints. Those footprints were preserved because a deluge of unprecedented magnitude deposited layers of sediment atop it.
Frayed Knot
New member
That's the guy who was on Enyart's radio program last week? That's hilarious!
It's as if these people are incapable of actually saying anything honestly.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Strange. The critique you linked to thinks it's a real dino print. :idunno:
"I understand a bit more about how it was produced. A legitimate dinosaur track was found and removed."
Yeah, that doesn't look carved.
OK, let's take a look at the evidence! :up:
A dino walked through some mud and left footprints. Those footprints were preserved because a deluge of unprecedented magnitude deposited layers of sediment atop it.
Did you actually read through the whole critique? This thing is a joke! I'm no professor of biology/geology or science in general, but then I didn't need to be to avoid being duped by this rubbish....
Oh, then again being a professor of biology etc doesn't mean much to you anyway Stripe, does it? They still don't know anything about science or due process apparently...
lain:
Alencon
New member
*Sigh* Do you know what a PRATT is? This really gets tiring, it really does. There are so many more important problems we could be solving.
Go here please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paluxy_River.
The grandson of the man who "discovered" the human & dinosaur tracks admitted that it was a pious hoax by his grandfather.
And you wonder why we laugh at Christianity.
Go here please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paluxy_River.
The grandson of the man who "discovered" the human & dinosaur tracks admitted that it was a pious hoax by his grandfather.
And you wonder why we laugh at Christianity.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Did you read that he said, he thought it was modified from the original? That the "toes" of the dinosaur show sandstone lenses that were carved through?
Oh wait you're like every other creationist that selectively quotes and misrepresents their sources.
If you think that's a real representation of what happened after reading the critique, Mr. claims to be geologist, you've just eliminated yourself from having any expertise at all.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
It's utterly bizarre why anyone would stoop to such methods really. Why bother? You'll be found out after all so if this is founded it's just sad....
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Psst...
Alate, Stripe thinks you have no clue regarding science or scientific process, and that you just google references or quote parts from someone else's post....
Just a heads up....
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
- Status