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  • #31
    Originally posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    As an open theist, I don't believe that God doesn't have any control over anyone on earth anymore (It took a discussion with Knight a few years ago to get that one through to me.). I believe that the majority of bad things that happen to people, now, (like heart attacks at age forty, women being raped and murdered in their own apartments by neighbors, children being molested by their parents, and wives being beaten by their husbands) happen because of the choices the perpetrators make to commit the acts they do. By the way, Joey, this is why I won't forgive Hitler for my ex-husband beating me. My ex made the decision to hit me. Hitler had nothing to do with it.

    While I don't agree with everything that the people I mentioned in my earlier post believe in and I'm sure they don't agree with everything that I believe, we agree on the biggest thing about our faith: that Christ is the focus and the whole reason for our faith. I look forward to the day when we can sit together, as a group of friends, at Christ's feet and find out "from the horse's mouth" what we're right and wrong about when it comes to Christianity.



    Right. In the normal definition of forgiving, you never knew Hitler. I mentioned Hitler to you earlier because I was trying to argue for something. But I wasn't arguing against the normal definition to forgiving. But never mind that for now.


    But in regards to control. If God has no control, then how is God going to gain control someday? How is God going to win?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JoeyArnold View Post
      I'm in danger of becoming anything. I could be persuaded into joining Atheism, or any religion, sect, denomination, cult, clan, group, culture, doctrine, idea, dogma, or anything, really. Time will tell.
      And are you looking to TOL to make this determination for you?
      The Author of all watches over me, and I have a fine horse.


      Abortion is murder. Period.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by JoeyArnold View Post
        Right. In the normal definition of forgiving, you never knew Hitler. I mentioned Hitler to you earlier because I was trying to argue for something. But I wasn't arguing against the normal definition to forgiving. But never mind that for now.


        But in regards to control. If God has no control, then how is God going to gain control someday? How is God going to win?
        I believe that, for now, God has given us over to our nature. Some of us choose to follow God and some choose not to follow God. That is why there are so many bad things happening to people right now.

        I don't believe that God has no control. I believe that God has given up a tight reign on us in order for us to choose to follow Him. If He just made us love Him, that wouldn't be love at all. We would be puppets.
        They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. -- Isaiah 40:31

        Vegetarian - Indian word for lousy hunter


        sigpic

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        • #34
          Originally posted by vegascowboy View Post
          How many of you would say that you have changed...

          ...theologically, politically, etc....

          ...since you have been an active participator on TOL.


          NOTE: This change need not be as a direct result of being on TOL (through the ideas and words of others), although those stories, I think, would be the most interesting.

          Thanks.



          I've changed a lot since joining TOL. When I first joined, I was Wiccan and very angry at God. Slowly, due to the conversations I had with people on TOL, my anger subsided and I started to open my mind and heart to God, until eventually, I could ignore His call no longer and gave my life over to Him.

          I am also anti-abortion now, thanks to conversations on TOL.

          I think the biggest change in my life is simply a sense of 'belonging'. I've never fit in, anywhere, my entire life. Always feeling like an outsider, unable to be liked or even loved. TOL has changed that. The friends I have made here...the support I receive and the love and acceptance that I am constantly shown, has influenced my life like nothing ever has

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ebenz47037 View Post
            I believe that, for now, God has given us over to our nature. Some of us choose to follow God and some choose not to follow God. That is why there are so many bad things happening to people right now.

            I don't believe that God has no control. I believe that God has given up a tight reign on us in order for us to choose to follow Him. If He just made us love Him, that wouldn't be love at all. We would be puppets.


            Because to me, it's a question between freewill and predestination, or a question of how much control does God have. I see that you're emphasizing on freewill, which may appear as if God gave up His control, temporarily, to enable our freewill. From our perspective, I'll agree with you with what you are saying. But from God's perspective, if God lives outside of time, then God is not going to let our control take over His control.

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            • #36
              I'm more likely to ignore idiocy than to look for the 'good' in it.
              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
              E≈mc2
              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
              -Bob B.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by vegascowboy View Post
                And are you looking to TOL to make this determination for you?


                I'm not closed-minded to the possibilities, if that's what you're asking. I'm one of the youngest people on TOL. I've been around the Bible all of my life. But still got a lot to learn.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                  It's BEEN over . . . since forever ago. You simply haven't let go of your delusion it isn't.




                  What are my delusions?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JoeyArnold View Post
                    Because to me, it's a question between freewill and predestination, or a question of how much control does God have. I see that you're emphasizing on freewill, which may appear as if God gave up His control, temporarily, to enable our freewill. From our perspective, I'll agree with you with what you are saying. But from God's perspective, if God lives outside of time, then God is not going to let our control take over His control.
                    Lets not get off track the topic of this thread OK?

                    You might want to start a new thread if you want to dig deeper into the predestination/freewill debate.
                    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                      I'm more likely to ignore idiocy than to look for the 'good' in it.
                      What was that movie quote...?

                      "I see idiots. Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're idiots."

                      That's not quite right, I'm thinking, but it's close.

                      Do you think you've changed in any way, Stripe? Have you lived in Taiwan for the entire time that you've been on TOL?
                      The Author of all watches over me, and I have a fine horse.


                      Abortion is murder. Period.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Knight View Post
                        Lets not get off track the topic of this thread OK?

                        You might want to start a new thread if you want to dig deeper into the predestination/freewill debate.



                        Knight. Sorry. Ok, so, anyways, what have I learned at TOL? Oh, I got it. This is going to sound sarcastic, but it's not. I've learned to try to stay on topic while on TOL. It is not that I try getting off-topic on purpose. I love rabbits and rabbit-trails. But I guess TOL is teaching me to better stay on topic, to better communicate, to not be too mean while arguing, to not make fun of people while talking, to not accidentally call certain people a little dirty, and to not intentionally hijack threads. So those are some of the things I'm learning on TOL, as we speak. Anybody else learning these things, too?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                          It's BEEN over . . . since forever ago. You simply haven't let go of your delusion it isn't.
                          I've learned that some people are walking assertions, but more often than not, they aren't wearing any clothes.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Son of Jack View Post
                            I've learned that some people are walking assertions, but more often than not, they aren't wearing any clothes.



                            On TOL, I've learned that people think that TOL is an instant messaging service and that THIS IS SHOUTING. Or that this is shouting, too. I've learned that these certain rules of forums resemble cell-phone texting. We've all became like little children (Matthew 18:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 19:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20) and we have adopted cell phone texting as a part of our daily forum lives.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JoeyArnold View Post
                              I've learned to try to stay on topic while on TOL. It is not that I try getting off-topic on purpose. I love rabbits and rabbit-trails. But I guess TOL is teaching me to better stay on topic, to better communicate...
                              What's wrong with rabbit trails? Jn 3:8.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by vegascowboy View Post
                                This is fascinating to me. May I ask in what way? What kinds of ideas will continue to change for you? Are they life-changing ideas?
                                When I first came to TOL I was fairly fundamental in my Christianity but I was moving toward a more Liberal approach. Politically, I'm not sure? I think I was fairly Conservative in a Libertarian sort of way. It's hard for me to remember exactly where I was at that time. These days I'm not sure where I stand as far as labels and I don't worry about it. I vote for whomever I think is a good candidate. Last November I voted for a Libertarian and a Socialist, neither of which had a chance of winning. It was slim pickens around here.

                                About the time I showed up here I started looking into Messianic Judaism but quickly figured out there wasn't much Jewish about it. By the next year I was able to let go of Christianity even in it's liberal form. Six months later I started at the Synagogue.

                                I can't say for certain how my beliefs and opinions will change over time. They aren't set in concrete. Some may describe me as wishy-washy. I would say I'm just open to new ideas and new ways of thinking. I will stand pretty firm when I think something is wrong or something needs to be said. I don't change my mind from moment to moment on a whim. I just try to be open to more knowledge and considerate of others people's perspective as well as experience.

                                In a few months I'll go to the mikveh for my conversion to Judaism. I didn't grow up in a Jewish family and I had no Jewish education. I have to grow into my Jewish identity as an adult without being a part of a Jewish family. It's isn't easy and I have so much to learn. Where I am now is surely not where I will be five years down the line, ten years down the line or 30 years from now. It's a whole new world.

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