Mickiel
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These are called " Mythical Doctrines."
Why would God need a hell?
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These are called " Mythical Doctrines."
:yawn: He's not wrong (Eph 4:14). He doesn't cling to his sin in rebellion (Jn 3:19):sozo2: and then expect to live in God's holy home (Ga 6:7). :straight:
oly: He has evidence (see: Hell :burnlib. :listen: You have wishful thinking. :freak: opcorn:| Do ya feel lucky? ~ Harry Callahan, Dirty Harry | |
:yawn: Ro 8:13
Ac 20:20
oly:"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” ~ Ronald Reagan
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
freedom of choice only goes so far?
freedom of choice only goes so far?
Indeed,...all are members of the 'cherry pickers club' :crackup:
'Free will' is a big subject. If it is an 'illusion', its an illusion assumed in both religious writings and human experience. Why then is 'choice' freely presented in the Bible and even affirmed by God in the scritpures? Would God propose a choice in any matter if no choice was possible? If there is no 'freedom of choice', this puts the character of God in and the very dynamic of 'relationship' in question, and even the principle of a 'covenant'....since a 'covenant' is an agreement, a co-operative union between 2 persons or parties. While aspects of 'free will' may be illusory and our 'freedom of choice' is obviously limited by some factors (situation, circumstance, environment, possibility of options, etc.)...it would appear that there is some degree or actual 'freedom of choice' available at any juncture in time....no? To bring it to practical level,...you believe you have no choice thru-out your day among many options but you're every move is predetermined by God or some invisible Master Controller? Do you have 'free will' to read and respond to this post, in any number of possible ways, according to your own discretion? Do you have freedom of choice in your daily routine of life now? If so, why not in the future?
Furthermore, since you've indicated you're not sure God is in your life or if you even know God,...you're assuming that 'God' is going to FORCE himself on you at some future time when the fullness of the Restoration of all things comes into being, is this correct? So based on a few passages of 'reconciliation' God will in some future point of time become "all in all", so that only the glory of the consciousness of God and his infinite allness will be all-encompassing, and all creation will be baptized into that full Christ-consciousness. Am I getting warm? - one thing however that I don't resonate with is a concept of 'coercion' or 'force',...since I see love not operating that way, however when love wholly reigns and is fully revealed,...its own glorious power will hold. In the full revelation of Love's power and presence, that very law or principle in and of itself will be all-sufficient.
freedom of choice only goes so far?
Indeed,...all are members of the 'cherry pickers club' :crackup:
'Free will' is a big subject. If it is an 'illusion', its an illusion assumed in both religious writings and human experience. Why then is 'choice' freely presented in the Bible and even affirmed by God in the scritpures? Would God propose a choice in any matter if no choice was possible? If there is no 'freedom of choice', this puts the character of God in and the very dynamic of 'relationship' in question, and even the principle of a 'covenant'....since a 'covenant' is an agreement, a co-operative union between 2 persons or parties. While aspects of 'free will' may be illusory and our 'freedom of choice' is obviously limited by some factors (situation, circumstance, environment, possibility of options, etc.)...it would appear that there is some degree or actual 'freedom of choice' available at any juncture in time....no? To bring it to practical level,...you believe you have no choice thru-out your day among many options but you're every move is predetermined by God or some invisible Master Controller? Do you have 'free will' to read and respond to this post, in any number of possible ways, according to your own discretion? Do you have freedom of choice in your daily routine of life now? If so, why not in the future?
Furthermore, since you've indicated you're not sure God is in your life or if you even know God,...you're assuming that 'God' is going to FORCE himself on you at some future time when the fullness of the Restoration of all things comes into being, is this correct? So based on a few passages of 'reconciliation' God will in some future point of time become "all in all", so that only the glory of the consciousness of God and his infinite allness will be all-encompassing, and all creation will be baptized into that full Christ-consciousness. Am I getting warm? - one thing however that I don't resonate with is a concept of 'coercion' or 'force',...since I see love not operating that way, however when love wholly reigns and is fully revealed,...its own glorious power will hold. In the full revelation of Love's power and presence, that very law or principle in and of itself will be all-sufficient.
Mickiel
New member
Choice is never affirmed by God in any scripture I have read. Free will is a will that can decide things, unaffected by other influences; there is no such thing in human life. Humans are influenced by so many outside forces, its impossible for them to even have a free will. Free will is just another piece of candy that humanity is addicted to. Its a crutch that people need to believe , or they could not think and walk.
musterion
Well-known member
Then you have not read Scripture.
God taking vengeance in flaming fire upon those who REFUSE to receive a love of the truth for one.
Christ warning His hearers to CHOOSE, "Repent or ye must perish" for another.
God lamenting the many times Israel CHOSE to disobey Him and go whoring after false gods, for yet another.
Many, many more can be listed.
If there is no such thing as free will, why does a just, holy God who does not lie hold people eternally responsible for that which they chose to do with His Son; i.e., reject Him? If they have no free will then His condemnation of them is a hypocritical sham and a lie. The only way He can justly condemn unbelief AS unbelief is if the individual had the actual free will ability to choose as they did. There is no alternative, at least not if you claim to believe the Bible.
Mickiel
New member
There is nothing I can do with your mindset; I already know that ; the Christian understanding is seared. God nowhere in scripture gives human's a choice to do things his way ; in fact, God never has asked ANY of his creations to choose his way verses another way. There are no biblical verses that teach God is a God of choice; its all a Christian fantasy. Just like free will is a Christian illusion, the bible does not teach free will. The bible teaches that God's will be done- period! It does not teach God giving his servants or even Jesus, some free will to decide things his way or not.
musterion
Well-known member
I just gave you three examples. Why have you ignored them?
I just gave you three examples. Why have you ignored them?
I just gave you three examples. Why have you ignored them?
I just gave you three examples. Why have you ignored them?
Mickiel
New member
You have not given me three biblical scriptures that show God is a God of choice. And you can't, because there are none. There are absolutely no biblical scriptures that teach God or Christ revealing their Kingdom to be one of choice , as if you only get in if you choose to get in. Choice has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation of humanity. That is a Christian teaching, not a biblical fact.
musterion
Well-known member
That is not the point you raised at first. What you FIRST asked for was about human free will, not about God Himself. THIS is what you said:
Now you're moving your goal post to somehow make it about God so you can avoid addressing where the Bible shows God addressing the human power of free will choice, which He has given us.
You are a liar and a deceiver, or you are senile.
Mickiel
New member
I was talking about both topics of free will and God and choice; I am not a liar and I don't like being called one. I don't like being called senile and I am insulted by you calling me a deceiver; I am done addressing you, because I do not like talking with people who do me like that so disrespectfully.
Peace on your journey.
That's right. Those who hear and trust and believe, cannot lose their salvation
The gospel of your salvation: 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV - and then Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
Mickiel
New member
Those who don't hear and don't trust and don't believe, the salvation of God is especially for them.
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