Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
- Start date
- Status
Mickiel
New member
God wanted Christ to be killed for our sins, so his will at times can be harsh on the surface; God wanted his real message of Universal salvation to be crucified as well, which is why he choose Christianity to push the hell message. He knew the Christians would persue hell with a harshness.
Christians aren't the only ones that believe in hell, most faiths do.
Mickiel
New member
Christians are one third of the people on earth, so they lead the hell hound packs.
Zeke
Well-known member
So who created the mentality that would consider such a existence? So if someone no longer wants to be a friend with you should they be relegated to a life of punishment? you're God isn't real, only a rudimentary teaching tool/stumbling block of the mind to get past which is the realm of One that has played all the roles and retired from the mental matrix.
You create the only Hell or Heaven you will experience while feeling you're way through this artificial imagery feeding on separation, a feeling of being chosen while some/personas playing a part just don't have the lucky chip to enter:rapture:.
For us (1 Jn 3:14). :straight: Not all y'all (Jn 3:36, Mt 8:29–33). :BillyBob:
:yawn: Mt 5:16
Turn (Ac 9:35), repent (Ac 8:22), return (1 Sam. 7:3), convert (Ac 15:3).
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Make makes his own 'heaven' or 'hell'.......
Make makes his own 'heaven' or 'hell'.......
Yes, since its basic to human conscience that there are consequences for ones actions and that a person experiences his own condition of consciousness or mentality, however 'heavenly' or 'hellish' that might be. The law of karma (cause/effect) is a universal law, and it pertains to activity on all levels of existence....naturally.
Beyond what one can philosophically determine or rationally assume, granted the reality also of one's own experience,....any sphere or realm of 'heaven' or 'hell' beyond the grave is pure speculation. It is only the imagination of man and his mythology that projects some 'compensation' of good or evil deeds to be reaped in the afterlife, but this is because we experience the law of karma here (it is reasonable to assume, by way of law).
Life is granted, existence IS. - however our own mentality, attitude, actions condition HOW we experience life, since we are continually reaping what we sow. This is why I see karmic law as being essential in this whole business of 'heaven' or 'hell'....conditionally speaking. This is why its been a basic principle of understanding in all spiritual philosophy that souls will be judged according to their works, and compensated thereby (in the world and in all worlds). Seedtime and harvest. There is also the element of 'time' involved here, in experiencing one's harvest.
This also holds that all souls are responsible to atone for their own sins, and also responsible for their own salvation (as much as in man's own power and ability to make reparation for his own mistakes, and repent). - before any 'traditionalists' protest, this remains true, while of course all powers and potentials are granted by 'God', and grace is ever present upholding all things (that's granted). - but the law of self-responsibility still holds....'you make you own bed'. You choose life or death...in so many words and so many worlds.
Make makes his own 'heaven' or 'hell'.......
Yes, since its basic to human conscience that there are consequences for ones actions and that a person experiences his own condition of consciousness or mentality, however 'heavenly' or 'hellish' that might be. The law of karma (cause/effect) is a universal law, and it pertains to activity on all levels of existence....naturally.
Beyond what one can philosophically determine or rationally assume, granted the reality also of one's own experience,....any sphere or realm of 'heaven' or 'hell' beyond the grave is pure speculation. It is only the imagination of man and his mythology that projects some 'compensation' of good or evil deeds to be reaped in the afterlife, but this is because we experience the law of karma here (it is reasonable to assume, by way of law).
Life is granted, existence IS. - however our own mentality, attitude, actions condition HOW we experience life, since we are continually reaping what we sow. This is why I see karmic law as being essential in this whole business of 'heaven' or 'hell'....conditionally speaking. This is why its been a basic principle of understanding in all spiritual philosophy that souls will be judged according to their works, and compensated thereby (in the world and in all worlds). Seedtime and harvest. There is also the element of 'time' involved here, in experiencing one's harvest.
This also holds that all souls are responsible to atone for their own sins, and also responsible for their own salvation (as much as in man's own power and ability to make reparation for his own mistakes, and repent). - before any 'traditionalists' protest, this remains true, while of course all powers and potentials are granted by 'God', and grace is ever present upholding all things (that's granted). - but the law of self-responsibility still holds....'you make you own bed'. You choose life or death...in so many words and so many worlds.
Last edited:
way 2 go
Well-known member
gotta go somewhere .
way 2 go
Well-known member
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
karma
murder a person -1 ,fornicate have a child +1 = even
Death and hades[hell] will be cast into gehenna[hell]. One hell goes, one hell remains.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Try again..........
Try again..........
Very good, notice there is only 'life' or 'death' mentioned. Immortality is a 'gift'....according to the writer. The wicked who suffer the 'second death' are not given to share the immortality (divine nature/life) of God. They 'perish'.
I'm afraid your understanding of 'karma' is misconstrued,..the above makes no sense. But be reminded,....'God'(law) is not mocked,...whatsoever a man sows, that also he reaps'. It is a law intrinsic to existence itself, that actions produce corresponding re-actions/consequences. Seedtime and harvest; sowing and reaping. Each one is judged according to his works. Each reap what they sow, its a law inherent in every 'action'.
Try again..........
Very good, notice there is only 'life' or 'death' mentioned. Immortality is a 'gift'....according to the writer. The wicked who suffer the 'second death' are not given to share the immortality (divine nature/life) of God. They 'perish'.
I'm afraid your understanding of 'karma' is misconstrued,..the above makes no sense. But be reminded,....'God'(law) is not mocked,...whatsoever a man sows, that also he reaps'. It is a law intrinsic to existence itself, that actions produce corresponding re-actions/consequences. Seedtime and harvest; sowing and reaping. Each one is judged according to his works. Each reap what they sow, its a law inherent in every 'action'.
Last edited:
What are your thoughts on re-incarnation ? There are people that remember another lifetime.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Reincarnation.....
Reincarnation.....
Where have you been?
- I had my own thread on 'Reincarnation' and was presiding on another thread on Reincarnation as well,....but these threads were 'purged' in some recent system upgrades/cleaning sprees. Sadly I didn't save any of the discussion, other than what you can find online thru a 'wayback machine' or some other online data archive resource.
Beyond that I've mentioned 'reincarnation' here and there without getting too deep into it, unless/until a new thread on the subject is forthcoming. Lets note that many of the esoteric schools of western religions include a kind of 'rebirth' or 'reincarnation' (I use the terms synonymously) for souls as part of the their eternal progression of learning, souls coming back to re-learn lessons or make right the wrongs they committed in previous life-times, or other ventures that only another physical embodiment could facilitate to further their spiritual evolution and path of perfection. It is natural for souls then to 'reincarnate' or pass thru 'multiple life experiences' per the law of evolution and spiritual progress.
It is more openly believed to be part of the natural cycle of life in the Eastern religious traditions (Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism, etc.)....where spirit-souls naturally re-incarnate by karmic-law,.....progressing along working out their karma until perfecting or purifying themselves into a condition of purity where incarnation in the physical realm is no longer necessary, unless one is going down as a 'bodhisattva' to give his life in serving others as a teacher or healer, to help relieve the suffering of others.
I approach the subject mostly 'philosophically' as its closely related to the law of karma, since a soul reincarnates in accord with its own historical thread of karma, whereby its condition is 'adjusted' or 'balanced' by such, since every life-time is a continuation of experience of effects passed down from previous actions and so on. Souls are making their own 'heaven' or 'hell' by their own mental states and actions, and reaping what they are sowing, however, this is being 'harvested' in time,....the seeds planted must sprout. So this understanding of 'cyclic law' and seed-time and harvest is inherent in Nature,...its just one of the laws of the cosmos.
Theosophy is a good school to learn the basics of reincarnation and karma, and then you can look over what each religious tradition teaches about the subject, which we did in one of our previous threads.
See: A Right understanding of Reincarnation
Also note that there are many different angles and perspectives to view 'rebirth' (reincarnation) and some schools describe the 'mechanics' of such a bit differently, so there is always room for research and speculation. I don't want to spend too much time on the subject here, respecting the topic here, but can continue this in private or save for a new thread venture
Reincarnation.....
Where have you been?
- I had my own thread on 'Reincarnation' and was presiding on another thread on Reincarnation as well,....but these threads were 'purged' in some recent system upgrades/cleaning sprees. Sadly I didn't save any of the discussion, other than what you can find online thru a 'wayback machine' or some other online data archive resource.Beyond that I've mentioned 'reincarnation' here and there without getting too deep into it, unless/until a new thread on the subject is forthcoming. Lets note that many of the esoteric schools of western religions include a kind of 'rebirth' or 'reincarnation' (I use the terms synonymously) for souls as part of the their eternal progression of learning, souls coming back to re-learn lessons or make right the wrongs they committed in previous life-times, or other ventures that only another physical embodiment could facilitate to further their spiritual evolution and path of perfection. It is natural for souls then to 'reincarnate' or pass thru 'multiple life experiences' per the law of evolution and spiritual progress.
It is more openly believed to be part of the natural cycle of life in the Eastern religious traditions (Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism, etc.)....where spirit-souls naturally re-incarnate by karmic-law,.....progressing along working out their karma until perfecting or purifying themselves into a condition of purity where incarnation in the physical realm is no longer necessary, unless one is going down as a 'bodhisattva' to give his life in serving others as a teacher or healer, to help relieve the suffering of others.
I approach the subject mostly 'philosophically' as its closely related to the law of karma, since a soul reincarnates in accord with its own historical thread of karma, whereby its condition is 'adjusted' or 'balanced' by such, since every life-time is a continuation of experience of effects passed down from previous actions and so on. Souls are making their own 'heaven' or 'hell' by their own mental states and actions, and reaping what they are sowing, however, this is being 'harvested' in time,....the seeds planted must sprout. So this understanding of 'cyclic law' and seed-time and harvest is inherent in Nature,...its just one of the laws of the cosmos.
Theosophy is a good school to learn the basics of reincarnation and karma, and then you can look over what each religious tradition teaches about the subject, which we did in one of our previous threads.
See: A Right understanding of Reincarnation
Also note that there are many different angles and perspectives to view 'rebirth' (reincarnation) and some schools describe the 'mechanics' of such a bit differently, so there is always room for research and speculation. I don't want to spend too much time on the subject here, respecting the topic here, but can continue this in private or save for a new thread venture
Last edited:
:yawn: Jesus spoke of hell more than any other person in the bible. You'll believe him or you won't. :juggle:
See:
Hell
:yawn: We're going to heaven. :straight: We know this because we have love for the brethren (1 Jn 3:14). We prove this by telling the truth (Ac 20:20).
oly: Where do you believe you'll go when you die? :smokie:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Gehenna
Gehenna
That word he mostly used that translators have rendered into the English word 'hell' is 'Gehenna',...the valley of the Son of Hinnom where trash and refuse were burned, a place of desolation, waste, destruction, incineration. It wasn't a place where bodies or souls were burning forever and ever without being consumed or destroyed. The fires of Gehenna consume all that is thrown into it (that can be burned up), and what the fires don't destroy, the worms eat. That's the picture here that Jesus knew his hearers would understand, knowing about the nearby region of Gehenna, and it what it was used for.
* It might also shock some people to know the Jesus did not speak English...so he did not use the English word 'hell' (and all its later connotations or imagery that comes with the term).
Gehenna
That word he mostly used that translators have rendered into the English word 'hell' is 'Gehenna',...the valley of the Son of Hinnom where trash and refuse were burned, a place of desolation, waste, destruction, incineration. It wasn't a place where bodies or souls were burning forever and ever without being consumed or destroyed. The fires of Gehenna consume all that is thrown into it (that can be burned up), and what the fires don't destroy, the worms eat. That's the picture here that Jesus knew his hearers would understand, knowing about the nearby region of Gehenna, and it what it was used for.
* It might also shock some people to know the Jesus did not speak English...so he did not use the English word 'hell' (and all its later connotations or imagery that comes with the term).
egyptianmuslim
New member
JOHANNAM(arabic) is the place of torture of sinful people after the Great Day of Judgement no death in it , it is not the end place of sinful because of God grace and forgiveness..... its nature is unknown because its people can eat, talk to each other and to the people of the Paradise and call God to forgive them
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Hi em,....long time no see
I'll have to brush up my study of 'hell' within Islam, but according to your prescription.....'punishment' is temporary and has a reforming or restoring effect, and is only proportional to the degree of sins committed, then a remedial period follows where one can enjoy God's grace and forgiveness. This may also be a kind of 'purgatory', where suffering for sins is only for a given period until justice is served for that term, then repentance and salvation is afforded? Such at term is allowed for within Judaism as well, where souls only spend up to a year in purgatoriral fires of Gehenna, and if inclined to repent are afforded salvation, whereas the purely wicked and unrepentant are burned up there (destroyed/disintegrated).
- Status