Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I hope you just go away.

I'll bet you do.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It looks as if Jerry S is about to have some kind of nervous breakdown? I
hope he gets some counseling, before he winds up going off the deep end?
I'd hate to see him ranting and raving like some kind of maniac/lunatic.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It looks as if Jerry S is about to have some kind of nervous breakdown? I
hope he gets some counseling, before he winds up going off the deep end?
I'd hate to see him ranting and raving like some kind of maniac/lunatic.

Once again instead of actually addressing verses you try to smear the one who proved that John 5:24 contradicts your ridiculous idea that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

Since you have no answer for what the Lord Jesus said there you have decided to sling mud in the hope that no one will notice that you have nothing intelligent to say about the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24.

I have nothing but pity for you.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It looks as if Jerry S is about to have some kind of nervous breakdown? I
hope he gets some counseling, before he winds up going off the deep end?
I'd hate to see him ranting and raving like some kind of maniac/lunatic.

I wish he would quote all of it:



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Danoh]

I wish he would quote all of it:



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Lol, you must know he is off somewhere "solving for" what that "good" is. Mark my words.

 

[Lighthouse]

I wish he would quote all of it:



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Yup.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I have nothing but pity for you.

We're even then, I have nothing but DISDAIN for you!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We're even then, I have nothing but DISDAIN for you!

You think you have a disdain for me but it is actually the Scriptures which I quote to you which you hate!

You continue to insist that the Jews who lived under the law were not saved by faith alone. But these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law make it plain that you are wrong:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:25).​

If you actually think that you are believing the words of the Jesus Christ there you are delusional!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lol, you must know he is off somewhere "solving for" what that "good" is. Mark my words.

I solved that a long time ago and a look at the context demonstrates exactly what one must do:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

By the context it is easy to understand that believing is how a person does good.

Since you do not believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 then you are unable to understand that "believing" is how a person attains to the resurrection of life.

 

[musterion]

Are you going to harmonize 1Jn 1:9 with your interpretation of Jn 3:16, and the Lord's equating entering life with entering the Kingdom, Jerry?

 

[Danoh]

I solved that a long time ago and a look at the context demonstrates exactly what one must do:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

By the context it is easy to understand that believing is how a person does good.

Since you do not believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 then you are unable to understand that "believing" is how a person attains to the resurrection of life.

Perhaps you ought to shift focus and lay out proof as to who on here believes what.

Or do you just like slandering people?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Perhaps you ought to shift focus and lay out proof as to who on here believes what.

Or do you just like slandering people?

In what way did I slander you? I said that you do not believe what the Lord Jesus said here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Here the Lord Jesus tells the Jews who lived under the law that they only had to do "one" thing in order to be saved and that one thing is to believe.

You say that the Jews who lived under the law had to do "two" things in order to be saved and those two things are to "believe" and do "works."

Since the Lord Jesus names only one thing then it is obvious that you do not believe Him.

Then since you have no answer to that you falsely accused me of being a slanderer. Typical!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are you going to harmonize 1Jn 1:9 with your interpretation of Jn 3:16, and the Lord's equating entering life with entering the Kingdom, Jerry?

In what way do you think that my interpretation of either verse needs to be harmonized with the other?

 

[Danoh]

In what way did I slander you? I said that you do not believe what the Lord Jesus said here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Here the Lord Jesus tells the Jews who lived under the law that they only had to do "one" thing in order to be saved and that one thing is to believe.

You say that the Jews who lived under the law had to do "two" things in order to be saved and those two things are to "believe" and do "works."

Since the Lord Jesus names only one thing then it is obvious that you do not believe Him.

Then since you have no answer to that you falsely accused me of being a slanderer. Typical!

What's typical is that you have been saying for sometime now that I say that. Where is your evidence, you "Accuser of the Brethren."

Give me three posts where I have said what I believe about that one way, or the other.

Unless you just like slandering people.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I wish he would quote all of it:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So you think the Lord Jesus made an error in what He said here? Do you think He meant to say that in order to be saved the Jews under the law had to "believe" and do "works"?

Why would He leave out doing "works" if they were necessary for salvation?

You still have not explained that.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What's typical is that you have been saying for sometime now that I say that. Where is your evidence, you "Accuser of the Brethren.".

The following quote alone proves that you said that the work of submitting to the rite of 'water baptism" was necessary for their salvation:

In this, water baptism was the issue of "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 3:21.

From what you said here I can only understand you to be saying that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith plus submitting to the rite of water baptism. On the same post you also said:

The issue of repentance with Israel was that of their need to turn back from their filthiness and their idols to the God of their fathers as they were in danger of being cut off from Covenant relationship with him.

As such they'd be lost and headed for hell, as they had broken the Covenant they had been entered into by circumcision as mandated by God through and to Abraham.

According what you said here I can only believe that you were saying that more than believing was necessary for them to be saved.

Your words which I quoted are found at post #3 on the thread titled "Repent and Be Baptized...For the Remission of Sins."

Are you saying that your position all along has been the idea that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by "faith" and "faith" alone?

 

[Danoh]

The following quote alone proves that you said that the work of submitting to the rite of 'water baptism" was necessary for their salvation:



From what you said here I can only understand you to be saying that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith plus submitting to the rite of water baptism. On the same post you also said:



According what you said here I can only believe that you were saying that more than believing was necessary for them to be saved.

Your words which I quoted are found at post #3 on the thread titled "Repent and Be Baptized...For the Remission of Sins."

Are you saying that your position all along has been the idea that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by "faith" and "faith" alone?

Ok, so now I know what I knew all along; your notions of another's words.

You'll note I exchange with others about all sorts of Bible related issues and don't hold back where I agree or disagree.

And yet, not with you.

Why?

Because your deal is this need to interrogate, and hound, and assert, and all that mess.

And last I checked "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind," is still in the Bible.

Not hound them and hound them and hound them, and brow beat them as you do.

There is so much richness in the Mystery we could all explore, but for your endless need to behave as you do.

The playground is not yours, the game is not, its rules are not, and the ball is not.

Do you not know any other way to deal with people?

 

[musterion]

In what way do you think that my interpretation of either verse needs to be harmonized with the other?

The reason is obvious, as you know. The same apostle penned both and there are no quotations in the Greek, so it's a matter of opinion whether 3:16 -- while indisputably inspired -- is John quoting the actual spoken Words of Christ to Nicodemus, or whether it's John's inspired commentary. Either way, it needs squaring with the conditional forgiveness and cleansing from sin which John prescribed in 1 John which, despite human tradition, is NOT about maintaining fellowship with God.

So how does one receive once-for-all eternal life as Paul taught it (which appears to be your point) if one also must confess sins in order to be forgiven and cleansed of them? If I'm reading you correctly, you must believe John taught both.

There is also the equating of life to entry into the Kingdom.

 

[patrick jane]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
In what way do you think that my interpretation of either verse needs to be harmonized with the other?

The reason is obvious and you know it. The same apostle penned both and there are no quotations in the Greek, so it's a matter of opinion whether 3:16 -- while indisputably inspired -- is John quoting the actual spoken Words of Christ to Nicodemus, or whether it's John's inspired commentary. Either way, it needs squaring with the conditional forgiveness and cleansing from sin which John prescribed in 1 John.

So how does one receive once-for-all eternal life as Paul taught it (which appears to be your point) if one also must confess sins in order to be forgiven and cleansed of them?

yeah, i'd like to see that answer from jerry -

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Ok, so now I know what I knew all along; your notions of another's words.

So now you are denying that you quoted 1 Peter 3:21 in an effort to prove that the Jews who lived under the law had to do works to be saved? Here are yyour words again:

In this, water baptism was the issue of "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 3:21.

Here it is clear that you are speaking of the rite of water baptism to which those at Acts 2:38 submitted to and it is obvious that you believed that submitting to that rite saved them.

So you deny the Lord Jesus' words where He told the Jews who lived under the law that they were saved by faith and faith alone:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You say that youbelieve what is written in the Bible but when we examine your beliefs it is obvious that you do not.