Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Then please tell me which post number we can see that one of those in the Neo-MAD crowd gave an interpretation of the meaning of the verse?

You wouldn't listen anyway. So, what's the use? You're that kind of guy.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Plenty have over the years.

Over the years?

Is that the best excuse you can give as to why they refuse to address John 3:16 now?

All I see from you people is an utter lack of desire to discuss the meaning of the verses which I continue to quote and a great desire to put me down.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You wouldn't listen anyway. So, what's the use? You're that kind of guy.

All you are doing is what those in the Neo-MAD camp always do and that is to give excuses why you all refuse to actually address the verses which I quote.

I am not the only one reading this thread so if you actually are capable of interpreting of interpreting the meaning of the verses which I quoted then you can share your wisdom with them. Why don't you prove that you really have an understanding of the meaning of this verse, especially what is said in "bold":

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

This says that whosoever believes is saved but the false teaching within the Neo-MAD camp says that a Jew who lived under the law could believe and not be saved. According to you that Jew could not be saved even if he believed unless he didn't do works.

The Lord Jesus Himself said the following to the Jews who lived under the law which makes it plain to anyone with an open mind that "faith" was all that was needed to be saved:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

For the best of me I cannot understand why you cannot see the truth revealed there. Instead of believing what the Lord and Savior Himself said about the salvation of the Jews who lived under the law you cling desperately to what those in the Neo-MAD community say.

Do you not realize that it is those who "believe God" who are saved and believing what some men say about the Scriptures saves no one?

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

 

[Danoh]

Jerry, you are making a fool of yourself.

How much might Paul have accomplished if afyer he had written the Galatians he had then wasted decades hounding after them insisting on being debated until he was acknowledged as correct?

What a fool you continue to make of yourself before all who read this decades old insistence of yours.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, you are making a fool of yourself.

What a fool you continue to make of yourself before all who read this decades old insistence of yours.

When I quote Scriptures you think it is foolish and the reason is simple:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

Anyone reading this thread can see that in your mind what is said at John 3:16 is foolishness. And that is the reason that you do not have the ability to give an interpretation of it, especially the part in "bold":

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to your foolishness a Jew who lived under the law could believe but yet not be saved.

You prove that you believe foolish things while rejecting the truths found in the Bible.

 

[DAN P]

Paul Sadler, the President of the Berean Bible Society and one of the chief spokesmen of the Neo-MAD view, says that salvation according to the gospel of circumcision could not be achieved apart from "works":

"We should add that the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the kingdom are inseparably bound together. Both are based upon a 'performance system.' It is this program and message that James was laboring under when he wrote his epistle...How often James must have heard one of his countrymen say, 'I believe in God.' But James observed that there were no fruits in his life that substantiated his claim, which was essential under the gospel of the circumcision" [emphasis added] (Sadler, "Studies in the Epistle of James", The Berean Searchlight, January, 2006, p.8-9).​

Pastor Sadler continues, writing that "According to James, Abraham served as a 'pattern' to the circumcision that faith and works were 'required' for salvation under their program" [emphasis added] (Ibid., p.10).

Hoow can that be said since we read here that those who believe are saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The Neo-MADs on this forum are absolutely convinced that the Jews who lived under the Law could not be saved apart from works. How can they be certain of that with John 3:16 in view.

That verse says that all who "believe" are saved but those in the Neo-MAD camp say the the Jews who lived under the Law could have "faith" but they are not saved unless they do works.

Every time I bring John 3:16 up to the Neo-MADs I never get an answer. They refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of that verse.

They say that they follow Paul but the certainly do not follow him when he says that he "kept back nothing that was profitable unto you" and "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:20, 27).

Will they continue to run and hide from John 3:16 or will they finally give their interpretation of the meaning of the verse?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Hi , Jerry S , and John 3:16 by CONTEXT is written to Israel , so John 3:16 as does John 3:5 also belong to Jews !!

How will you defend the Greek word WORLD / KOSMOS since it has many meaning and is a Transliteralation ?

Many then believe those He is talking about , the WORLD / KOSMOS of the enslaved jews under ROME !!

DAN P

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi , Jerry S , and John 3:16 by CONTEXT is written to Israel , so John 3:16 as does John 3:5 also belong to Jews !!

Even if you are right the fact remains that the verse says that "whosoever" believes in Him are saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The Greek word translated "whosoever" means "every one, any one" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So every person who believes is saved.

Those in the Neo-MAD crowd say that every one who believes might not be saved. They teach that the Jews who lived under the law who believe will not be saved if they do not do works.

Their teaching is directly contradicted by what is said at John 3:16.

Do you agree with them that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works?

 

[patrick jane]

Plenty have over the years. But what can you expect from someone who one size fits all everyone who he thinks does not agree with him, into this Neo label of his.

He has yet to lay out what said Neo's beliefs supposedly are.

Only that he alone has the truth and has been given some special dispensation of some sort that he conduct this fool, decades old hunt down of these Mid Acts criminals his Don Quixote joke of mind compels him to hunt down and try them by the fire of his hot air.

he has ancient dispensation secrets ?

View attachment 20006

 

[Jerry Shugart]

he has ancient dispensation secrets ?

No, he is so delusional that he actually believes that I have not said what the errors of those in the Neo-MAD movment are.

He suddenly forgets the fact that I have said that they make a huge blunder when they say that the book of Hebrews through Jude are not for those in the Body of Christ.

They also show their ignorance because they say that the Jews who lived under the law cannot be saved apart from works.

 

[Danoh]

he has ancient dispensation secrets ?

View attachment 20006

Make your point.

 

[way 2 go]

The Jews who believed and lived under the law were saved the same way which David was saved, apart from works:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).​

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
this refers to :
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
Psa 32:3 For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.

which was God forgiving David for murder and adultery


faith with works

2Sa 24:25 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel.

There is no great mystery to this truth but those in the Neo-MAD community are unable to understand this fact.

what fact ?

In fact, Paul made it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Abram's first covenant was faith only Gen 15:5-6
Abraham's second covenant had works and faith Gen 17:5 Gen 17:10

Since the Jews under the law were saved by grace through faith it is obvious that they were saved apart from works. That is because if it is of works then it cannot be described as being of grace:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

This is so simple but those in the Neo-MAD community just refuse to believe it.

What do you think? do you think that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith apart from works?

I know the Jews under the law had to offer sin offerings
Lev 4:25 Lev 4:29

 

[way 2 go]

Way 2 go, the sense of what you are asserting by way of your bringing up Saul, as an example, is very simple to follow, when one actually has an open mind to the views of others, and doesn't just call for that from them.

What's his name wrote "The Neo-MADs on this forum are absolutely convinced that the Jews who lived under the Law could not be saved apart from works. How can they be certain of that with John 3:16 in view."

You responded with "1Sa 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him."

You brought up Saul as an example of , and in your response to what's his name's assertion that "Jews who lived under the Law could not be saved apart from works."

Not that I agree, or disagree. My point is that what you wrote is very simple to follow when some one actually has an open mind, and is not just blowing hot air at others about how they would get what he is talking about if they had an open mind.

One more case of the blow hard what's his name proves himself to be; exposing his inability by his own words, in his failure once more, to get the sense of another's simple words, unless he's first read some interpretation about them in some fifty, sixty, one hundred year old external source somewhere.

so are you saying he is
kinda like a jw or mormon
can only answer with prefab answers
that have been researched by their leaders

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I know the Jews under the law had to offer sin offerings Lev 4:25 Lev 4:29

Not for salvation.

Those under the law were saved in exactly the same way which all others are saved--by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Since the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith we can know for certain that "works" played no part in their salvation:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

Do you agree that "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive when it comes to a person's salvation?

 

[Danoh]

Paul Sadler, the President of the Berean Bible Society and one of the chief spokesmen of the Neo-MAD view, says that salvation according to the gospel of circumcision could not be achieved apart from "works":

"We should add that the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the kingdom are inseparably bound together. Both are based upon a 'performance system.' It is this program and message that James was laboring under when he wrote his epistle...How often James must have heard one of his countrymen say, 'I believe in God.' But James observed that there were no fruits in his life that substantiated his claim, which was essential under the gospel of the circumcision" [emphasis added] (Sadler, "Studies in the Epistle of James", The Berean Searchlight, January, 2006, p.8-9).​

Pastor Sadler continues, writing that "According to James, Abraham served as a 'pattern' to the circumcision that faith and works were 'required' for salvation under their program" [emphasis added] (Ibid., p.10).

Hoow can that be said since we read here that those who believe are saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The Neo-MADs on this forum are absolutely convinced that the Jews who lived under the Law could not be saved apart from works. How can they be certain of that with John 3:16 in view.

That verse says that all who "believe" are saved but those in the Neo-MAD camp say the the Jews who lived under the Law could have "faith" but they are not saved unless they do works.

Every time I bring John 3:16 up to the Neo-MADs I never get an answer. They refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of that verse.

They say that they follow Paul but the certainly do not follow him when he says that he "kept back nothing that was profitable unto you" and "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:20, 27).

Will they continue to run and hide from John 3:16 or will they finally give their interpretation of the meaning of the verse?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Whatever is admitted, or not, proven or not, run from, or run to, you will then turn that as you have Anderson, O'Hair, et al, where some point of theirs suits the service of your actual, decades old agenda - seeking to prove that you are right; that anyone not agreeing with you is wrong, that their every thread will be invaded by you, and in introductory words connivingly thought out by you in advance, that you not be banned for your flagrant violation of this forum's rules.

Get some help already, o neurotic one of this Gestapo "grace" of yours.

What a transparent fool you continue to prove yourself to be to everyone but your own vanity...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Get some help already, o neurotic one of this Gestapo "grace" of yours.

I had the hope that you were finally going to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16 but once again I was wrong.

Instead, all you did is to attack me personally in the hope that no one will notice that you remain silent about the meaning of that verse.

You must enjoy embarrassing yourself because every time you post on this thread and refuse to address John 3:16 you are an embarrassment!

 

[Danoh]

I had the hope that you were finally going to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16 but once again I was wrong.

Instead, all you did is to attack me personally in the hope that no one will notice that you remain silent about the meaning of that verse.

You must enjoy embarrassing yourself because every time you post on this thread and refuse to address John 3:16 you are an embarrassment!

Wow - we agree on something...

Other than those issues I agree with you on, as well those I do not - neither of which I post about with you...

We agree, that I refuse to, lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We agree, that I refuse to, lol

You think it is funny that you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16 but in truth your refusal leads one to question why you just flat out refuse.

Why is that? Are you so short on spiritual discernment that you haven't figured it out yet?

You are nothing but a pest with no intention of actually addressing the subject of this thread.

 

[Danoh]

You think it is funny that you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16 but in truth your refusal leads one to question why you just flat out refuse.

Why is that? Are you so short on spiritual discernment that you haven't figured it out yet?

You are nothing but a pest with no intention of actually addressing the subject of this thread.

My recent bee sting to your decades old pestering gnat, lol

And I long ago posted my understanding of the various ten issues or so you rant on.... and on... and on... and on... and on... about.

You just do not know how to read through another's words unless you've had them explained to you in some fifty to one hundred year old book ..."about Dispensationalism."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

My recent bee sting to your decades old pestering gnat, lol

You have no interest in discussing what is written in the Scriptures so you are a complete waste of time.

 

[Danoh]

You have no interest in discussing what is written in the Scriptures so you are a complete waste of time.

Lol, doesn't stop you from wasting it.