Why We Are Justified by Faith Alone

[beloved57]

Nothing is yours if it is not received by faith.

"I come in my Fathers name and you receive me not: if another (Calvinism) shall come in his own name, him you will receive" John 5:43.

That is a false statement. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, hating God and rejecting Him Rom 5:10!

 

[Robert Pate]

That is a false statement. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, hating God and rejecting Him Rom 5:10!

Your Calvinist God will not let you see the truth. You have been blinded.

Romans 5:10, says... "For if WHEN WE WERE ENEMIES we were reconciled to God by his Son.

Your Calvinist God has tricked you into believing that people can be reconciled to God while they are enemies. Which is a lie.

 

[jamie]

If a person is "righteous" in the eyes of the Lord he is saved.

So righteousness earns salvation? I don't believe that.

 

[beloved57]

Your Calvinist God will not let you see the truth. You have been blinded.

Romans 5:10, says... "For if WHEN WE WERE ENEMIES we were reconciled to God by his Son.

Your Calvinist God has tricked you into believing that people can be reconciled to God while they are enemies. Which is a lie.

When or while doesnt matter, observe Rom 5:10

For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! NIV

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.ESV

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So all you doing is trying to find a way to justify your unbelief. A third grader can see theres no difference between saying when we were enemies and while we were enemies !

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Five Part Series on Sola Scriptura

Five Part Series on Sola Scriptura

Romanists need to be better informed:

http://effectualgrace.com/2016/10/10/sola-scriptura-five-part-series/

AMR

 

[turbosixx]

You have a different Bible than I do.

The whole book of John is about Jesus Christ, his life, his death and his resurrection.

I thought that might be the problem. When did the conversations you like to use take place, before or after his D,B &R?

If his sacrificed changed nothing then I wouldn't have a problem apply things said before to things after. However, I believe it changed everything.

 

[turbosixx]

Earlier I said:

You just refuse to believe what is so plain in Paul's epistles, that one's faith is counted for righteousness.​

To which you replied:



I cannot find any Greek expert who says that the Greek word translated "faith" means anything other than believe or conviction. And here is how "faith" is defined in the Bible:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).​

I always like to use bible definitions. If you keep reading we can see what faith looks like according to the bible. These people of faith obeyed God.
4 By faith Abel offered
7 By faith Noah,.. constructed an ark
8 By faith Abraham obeyed
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac
33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.

Do you believe that Paul makes it plain here that nothing but faith is needed for a person to be counted as righteous in the eyes of the Lord:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).​

Here the word "faith" is used in the sense of "believing," as the context indicates.

Yes, because here he is talking about works of the law of Moses. The law of Moses could not save anyone, if it could Jesus wouldn't have needed to die.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

James uses the exact same OT verse to show that faith isn’t complete without works, but not works of the law of Moses.
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I always like to use bible definitions. If you keep reading we can see what faith looks like according to the bible. These people of faith obeyed God.
4 By faith Abel offered
7 By faith Noah,.. constructed an ark
8 By faith Abraham obeyed
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac
33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.

You confuse "faith" with the "obedience of faith." They are not the same thing.

Yes, because here he is talking about works of the law of Moses.

No,the words in bold are written in regard to Abraham, and that was before the law of Moses was even in existence:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:3-5).​

James uses the exact same OT verse to show that faith isn’t complete without works, but not works of the law of Moses.
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

In the following verse James makes it plain that the Christians received life by the word of God and nothing else:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​

In the verses of which you speak from the epistle of James the subject is what one person might know about another person's faith:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jms.2:18).​

So one man is justified before another man by works and not by faith alone. On the other hand, the Lord knows the heart of man and does not need to see a man's works in order to know whether he has faith or not. I explained the verses to which you brought up from the epistle of James so now address what James said here:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​

Then tell me why I should believe that "faith" is the exact same thing as the "obedience of faith."

Thanks!

 

[turbosixx]

You confuse "faith" with the "obedience of faith." They are not the same thing.

I understand faith doesn’t require action but to live the Christian life by faith does require action.

No,the words in bold are written in regard to Abraham, and that was before the law of Moses was even in existence:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:3-5).​

That is exactly why he uses Abraham to prove his point. He’s proving we can be justified apart from the law of Moses and circumcision. They were trusting in the law.
2:17 But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God,

In the following verse James makes it plain that the Christians received life by the word of God and nothing else:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​

In the verses of which you speak from the epistle of James the subject is what one person might know about another person's faith:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jms.2:18).​

So one man is justified before another man by works and not by faith alone. On the other hand, the Lord knows the heart of man and does not need to see a man's works in order to know whether he has faith or not. I explained the verses to which you brought up from the epistle of James so now address what James said here:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​

That is not James’ point. Men have zero input on our justification. Do you have any other passage that might back up this claim?

I believe what James is saying is faith will be evident by action. When Abraham offered Isaac, there were two men with them but they stayed back and probably didn’t know what took place at the alter.

I believe the parable of the sower backs up my understanding of the passage along with others I could cite. Tell me, of all the soils, which one represents the saved soul and why?

Then tell me why I should believe that "faith" is the exact same thing as the "obedience of faith."

Thanks!

First, when the bible defines faith then shows us what faith looks like I see faith causing action.
Second, when I read about people being separated at judgment, it always comes down to their deeds. If you can show me otherwise, I would be appreciative.

 

[Robert Pate]

When or while doesnt matter, observe Rom 5:10

For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! NIV

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.ESV

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So all you doing is trying to find a way to justify your unbelief. A third grader can see theres no difference between saying when we were enemies and while we were enemies !

Your Calvinist God does not want you to believe the truth.

"When we were" is past tence. They were no longer enemies. This person has accepted Christ as his savior and is at peace with God.

"While we were enemies" is present tence. And does not make sense. This person has not accepted Christ and is still in rebellion against God and his Son Jesus Christ.

You cannot be reconciled to God while you are still his enemy. You must accept the offer of reconciliation.

You cannot be reconciled to God and be his enemy.

 

[Samie]

You cannot be reconciled to God while you are still his enemy. You must accept the offer of reconciliation.

Just curious.

Is reconciliation OFFERED or was it already DONE? I believe it is the latter.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation is by the death of Jesus, as the verse says, NOT by man's acceptance. Man has NOTHING to do with his being reconciled to God. It's all grace. Now that we are reconciled to God, all we need to do is live reconciled lives - overcome evil with good.

Overcomers will Christ NOT blot out from the book of life and will be seated with Him in His throne even as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:5, 21). All NOT blotted out will be allowed entry to heaven (Rev 21:27); all blotted out will have their portion in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I understand faith doesn’t require action but to live the Christian life by faith does require action.

Yes, to live the Christian life by faith does require action. However, "action" or "obedience" comes after one's "faith" has already been exercised. So by the time a person does any action he has already been counted as being righteous in the eyes of the Lord as a result of his faith:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).​

In the eyes of the Lord just as soon as a person exercises his faith he is counted as being righteous. Then after that "action"or "obedience" follows.

Do you agree?

If not, what specifically do you not agree with and why?

Thanks!

First, when the bible defines faith then shows us what faith looks like I see faith causing action.

Yes, since faith causes action then that means that in time actions come after faith or as a result of faith.

Agree?

Second, when I read about people being separated at judgment, it always comes down to their deeds. If you can show me otherwise, I would be appreciative.

The believer does not come into judgment in regard to salvation, as witnessed by the words of the Lord Jesus here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

It could be said that a Christian's judgment in regard to salvation happened when, on the Cross, the Lord Jesus suffered for our sins (1 Pet.3:18).

 

[musterion]

Yes, to live the Christian life by faith does require action.

Action, such as?

Not saying I necessarily disagree; just don't know what you mean by that.

 

[Ben Masada]

Of course we are justified by faith alone.

The reason that salvation is by faith alone is because it is by Christ alone.

What work or merit do you posses that God will accept, seeing that you are a sinner?

Does God accept the works or the merit of sinners? I am afraid not. Jesus is separate from sinners, Hebrews 7:26.

Jesus was separated from sinners! On what basis, that he could sin without becoming a sinner? If we are to believe in the NT, Jesus caused hatred to others with his sins. Fifteen times when he cursed the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers (Mat. 23:13-33)and once when he armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the moneychangers on that area in front of the Temple; especially because the moneychangers were working with the authorization of the High Priest. He should have considered at least that much! Perhaps he thought that Robert Pate would not consider his sins to be sins and let the whip loose.

 

[Samie]

Yes, to live the Christian life by faith does require action. However, "action" or "obedience" comes after one's "faith" has already been exercised. So by the time a person does any action he has already been counted as being righteous in the eyes of the Lord as a result of his faith:

Hi Jerry;

If a man is already counted righteous, is there any possibility that he could become unrighteous again and then he has to exercise faith again to be counted righteous again?

I am asking the question because I want to know your real position on this matter. Thanks.

 

[musterion]

You cannot be reconciled to God and be his enemy.

Yet God did it anyway.

Needing reconciliation assumes being an enemy, Robert.

How did God reconcile the world to Himself? By the cross.

When did He do this? While all of us were yet sinners...enemies.

 

[beloved57]

Your Calvinist God does not want you to believe the truth.

"When we were" is past tence. They were no longer enemies. This person has accepted Christ as his savior and is at peace with God.

"While we were enemies" is present tence. And does not make sense. This person has not accepted Christ and is still in rebellion against God and his Son Jesus Christ.

You cannot be reconciled to God while you are still his enemy. You must accept the offer of reconciliation.

You cannot be reconciled to God and be his enemy.

You deny the truth. This is proof you don't believe the scripture!

 

[musterion]

One of my favorite "faith alone" stories —-and it's true, not making it up……..Some gal on another Christian Forum, posted a lot about her great faith alone and reading the Bible. Over time,people reveal a great deal about themselves, and she stated she had been married and her husband had died, and presently she had a boyfriend.

Well it seems that the husband was alive, some posters questioned her relationship with the boyfriend———-She stated, that she considered her husband dead and since that's how she felt, well the relationship with the boyfriend was not considered adultery……and since she was a devouted lover of Christ——————no problem…..

Most "faith alone" or Bible alone people belong either to no Church or belong to a very loose bible study group or just read the Bible———good enough……..they are their own pope, priest, pastor, minister teacher all in one.

Oh well——-lest we be judged. ehhh?

She sounds like a moby.

 

[Robert Pate]

You deny the truth. This is proof you don't believe the scripture!

Your Calvinist God causes you to change the words in the Bible so as to please him. You need to scrap your Calvinist God and accept the God of the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry;

If a man is already counted righteous, is there any possibility that he could become unrighteous again and then he has to exercise faith again to be counted righteous again?

I am asking the question because I want to know your real position on this matter. Thanks.

No, in the eyes of God he will remain righteous. No true believer will ever have to exercise faith in the gospel again because the truth "shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.2).