ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

God's Truth

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If you're Christian you're Catholic & our home is our home.

The Catholic denomination goes against Jesus it is not my home.

I know you see it that way. I don't.

I do appreciate your keeping your arguments focused on the teaching, and not dwelling on sins. She is perfect in teaching, but not in action, being composed of sinners.

The Catholic denomination is not perfect in teaching, for she goes against the Word of God.

If you believed what God says, then you would not call your brothers ‘father’. You would not have statues and bow to them. You would not pray to Mary.
 

Nihilo

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Do you know what having the mind of Christ means?

To have the mind of Christ means to HAVE AN OBEDIENT MIND.
Surely: Luke 22:42 Philippians 2:5
Catholics are not obey God when they make statues and bow to them, when they call their brothers ‘father’, when they pray to Mary to get to God, and many other things.
We've gone through each of these at length. We simply disagree. At this point, it could be more fruitful to speculate about why we believe the way we believe, rather than fight about who's right and who's wrong. :idunno:
Jesus is the way, not the Catholic denomination.
False dilemma.
 

Nihilo

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It is up to you only in your mind.
:confused:
The Catholics dig up their “Saints”, they take whatever decayed body part is left, and they put it on display to be prayed to for a healing.
2nd Kings 13:21
Then you are ignoring what Paul said about putting one apostle over another.
In Galatians 2:9, Saint Paul seems to accept it. :idunno:
Paul was not there with Jesus when Jesus was on earth.

The twelve are apostles to the Lamb.

Judas was replaced:


Acts 1:20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’
and,
“‘May another take his place of leadership.’

Acts 1:21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”


Read these scriptures, it shows Matthias was chosen by the Lord.



24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
Both the case of St. Matthias and the case of Paul are special. While Christ personally sent Paul, making him a genuine Apostle, Matthias took his place after the Ascension yet before Pentecost. I am under the impression that Judas was not given the Great Commission and so was never an Apostle, and that since Paul was personally commissioned by Jesus, that he is among the 12 Apostles, and not Matthias.
 

Nihilo

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The Catholic denomination goes against Jesus it is not my home.
You are missed.

True story. :)
The Catholic denomination is not perfect in teaching, for she goes against the Word of God.
Right, every protestant thinks so. If you didn't think so, you'd be Catholic.
If you believed what God says, then you would not call your brothers ‘father’. You would not have statues and bow to them. You would not pray to Mary.
Again, we've established that we disagree on many issues. Perhaps it would be better to speculate why we each profess what we do, rather than try to win this unending battle.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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I think Rome is onto something here:

Cardinal Manning said: "The Catholic Church is either the masterpiece of Satan or the kingdom of the Son of God" ("Lectures on the Four-fold Sovereignty of God," London, 1871, page 171)... Cardinal Newman declared: "Either the Church of Rome is the house of God or the house of Satan; there is no middle ground between them" (Essays 11, page 116).

Src: J.M. Foster, "Rome, The Antagonist of the Nation," The Fundamentals

:AMR:

AMR
 

God's Truth

New member
We've gone through each of these at length. We simply disagree. At this point, it could be more fruitful to speculate about why we believe the way we believe, rather than fight about who's right and who's wrong.

Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man 'father'?

I will tell you how I obey Jesus.

I obey Jesus by not calling any of my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn.
 

God's Truth

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2nd Kings 13:21
That scripture says nothing about digging up a decayed body and praying to it.

In Galatians 2:9, Saint Paul seems to accept it.

1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.


Both the case of St. Matthias and the case of Paul are special. While Christ personally sent Paul, making him a genuine Apostle, Matthias took his place after the Ascension yet before Pentecost. I am under the impression that Judas was not given the Great Commission and so was never an Apostle, and that since Paul was personally commissioned by Jesus, that he is among the 12 Apostles, and not Matthias.
Your reasoning is not reasonable.
You ignored the scriptures I gave you.
 

God's Truth

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You are missed.

True story.

You can never say to God that you never heard the truth.

Right, every protestant thinks so. If you didn't think so, you'd be Catholic.

The scriptures are clearly written.

Again, we've established that we disagree on many issues. Perhaps it would be better to speculate why we each profess what we do, rather than try to win this unending battle.
I know why you believe in the false doctrines that you do.
 

RichRock

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and so do I

it is a great read

You've most probably heard of him, but I just read Marcus Grodi's story of converting from Presbyterian Pastor to Catholic. I have been enjoying watching the shows he hosts on EWTN called 'The Journey Home' here: https://www.ewtn.com/tv/live/journeyhome.asp in which he interviews many Pastors, Ministers etc who converted to Catholicism (as a result it appears of mostly of researching the origins of the biblical canon and Church, the sayings of the Church Fathers etc).

I was intrigued to see the same book we mentioned and which I am reading, ''Catholicism and Fundamentalism, the attack on 'Romanism' by 'Bible Believing Christians'' was partly instrumental in his conversion. Here's his great testimony, it might help those on the same path as myself:


Dead Duck

Marcus Grodi grew up in a somewhat liberal Lutheran church near Toledo, Ohio. He was active in the youth group, catechized and confirmed. "I knew many things," he says, "but they hadn't gotten into my heart." The church summer camps were "like being prepared to be involved with SDS, rather than spiritual'.

Grodi's high school acquaintance included students from many denominations, but no Catholics—"other than across an athletic field. My view of Catholicism was not extremely negative, but we had lots of mythological understandings of the Catholic church on the other side of town. We figured it was full of superstition, and people being almost enslaved to the priests and nuns."He began to wonder, though, about the differences among the Protestant denominations.

Grodi studied engineering at Case Western Reserve. "I went three years without entering a church door," he recalls. "I was involved in fraternity life and all that brings with it. Then in the summer before my senior year I had a deep renewal of my faith through the testimony of a friend—really a 180-degree turn in my life. "

Grodi went back to his Lutheran church and found that the words of the liturgy made sense for the first time. "But as I looked down the pew I saw high school students, like myself when I was that age, reciting the things without meaning. I decided that traditional liturgicalism was dead, that it produced nominal, almost mindless Christians. I figured God wanted to hear something different, not the same thing every Sunday.

"Upon graduating, Grodi began his first engineering job—and a youth ministry. He chose Congregationalism. "Every Congregational church is autonomous and can decide what it wants to do. It can write its own creed. It's amazing what some Congregational churches really believe."

In 1978, after four years of engineering and part-time ministry, Grodi entered Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. He gained much from his years there."I don't bash my evangelical background. It brought me back to Jesus Christ. It put in my heart a sincere desire to give my life totally to Him; and I do believe that it was because of that conviction that I'm now a Catholic.

Even Gordon-Conwell, with its commitment to Scripture, to the truth—because it's interdenominational it avoids the denominational slants of the Baptist Church, or the Methodist or Presbyterian Church—I think that trajectory is what ended up bringing a lot of us into the Catholic Church."

Grodi went out to his first church with enthusiasm and conviction. It was a Congregational church in Florida. "I hadn't been there six months when I realized there was something wrong with Congregationalism. I couldn't put my finger on it."He entered the Presbyterian Church as a pastor, but the doubts continued. "How could I be sure that our Presbyterian slant was the best slant, compared to my Methodist brothers, my Assembly of God, Church of Christ and Episcopalian brothers—even to the Catholics? How could I know that my interpretation of Scripture had any connection whatever with what Jesus really said?"

I wanted to be faithful. I knew I would one day stand before Jesus Christ, my Lord, and be accountable for the souls of the people I led. I knew I had to make sure that what I was teaching was true, and that what I was doing was true."Grodi couldn't turn for help to the leadership of the Presbyterian Church. "I had almost universally rejected their perspectives. Most of them were very liberal. They were pro-choice. Nine out of ten things that came across my desk from the head office ended up in the wastebasket."

"There were no rules; I was re-inventing the wheel. It didn't make sense that Jesus would have planted a church and then left everything up for grabs." Grodi considered trying a more conservative denomination, but what he calls the "poll-taking" aspect of denominationalism still bothered him. He resigned his pastorale and returned to Case Western Reserve, intending to earn a Ph.D. in molecular biology and then to combine his science and religion backgrounds into bioethics. "I figured I'd end up being a genetics professor or an ethicist somewhere."

He wasn't far into his doctoral work when one morning a newspaper advertisement caught his eye. "Catholic theologian Scott Hahn to speak at local parish."<Catholic> theologian Scott Hahn? "We hadn't seen each other for eight years. So I went to hear him speak, and listened to his tape, and read Karl Keating's book, <Catholicism and Fundamentalism.> By the end of that, just those three things, I was a dead duck."

Grodi began to read the early Church Fathers, and Church history. He knew he could not remain a Protestant. "My problem was that I couldn't be a Catholic. There were too many weird things. When you've been a Protestant for forty years, face it: the Infant of Prague is really strange. And I had grown up with those prejudices. The Catholic Church and the Mafia were the same thing. Catholics drank and smoked."

But I knew that if I could trust the authority of the Magisterium centered on the See of Peter, then everything else would fall into place. It was Newman's <Development of Christian Doctrine> that convinced me of that. And then I was a Catholic."

Marcus Grodi was received into the Catholic Church in 1993.
 

Nihilo

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Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man 'father'?

I will tell you how I obey Jesus.

I obey Jesus by not calling any of my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn.
I really was not envisioning that we substitute one endless competition for another . . . .
 

Nihilo

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Banned
That scripture says nothing about digging up a decayed body and praying to it.
Right. It actually suggests much more than you're willing to admit.
1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
Right. And, "In Galatians 2:9, Saint Paul seems to accept it."
Your reasoning is not reasonable.
Fine. Show me.
You ignored the scriptures I gave you.
I don't do that. :nono:
 

Nihilo

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Who do you think you are to make that unqualified judgment on me?
Are you serious? You just judged another person's heart, and I said you can't do that, and then you turn it around on me and try to make it look like I'm the one making these outrageous judgments? Really? :AMR:
You do not speak God's word, for God's word says we will know them by their fruit.
So that is how you justify yourself in judging another person's heart? Which only God has a right to judge?
 

God's Truth

New member
I really was not envisioning that we substitute one endless competition for another . . . .

Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man 'father'?

I will tell you how I obey Jesus.

I obey Jesus by not calling any of my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn.
 

God's Truth

New member
Right. It actually suggests much more than you're willing to admit.
Right. And, "In Galatians 2:9, Saint Paul seems to accept it."
Fine. Show me.
I don't do that. :nono:

You add and take away from God's word.

Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say to dig up decayed bodies and put them on display to be prayed to for a healing, as the Catholics do.
 

God's Truth

New member
Are you serious? You just judged another person's heart, and I said you can't do that, and then you turn it around on me and try to make it look like I'm the one making these outrageous judgments? Really? :AMR:
So that is how you justify yourself in judging another person's heart? Which only God has a right to judge?

RichRock exposed himself when he constantly puts me down.

Then you came and made a false judgement about me.

Jesus says we will know them by their fruit.

Jesus says what comes out of a person's mouth is WHAT IS IN THEIR HEART.
 

Cruciform

New member
I think Rome is onto something here:

Cardinal Manning said: "The Catholic Church is either the masterpiece of Satan or the kingdom of the Son of God" ("Lectures on the Four-fold Sovereignty of God," London, 1871, page 171)... Cardinal Newman declared: "Either the Church of Rome is the house of God or the house of Satan; there is no middle ground between them" (Essays 11, page 116).
I agree completely. That's why I entered Christ's one historic Catholic Church thirteen years ago this past Easter.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Nihilo

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Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man 'father'?

I will tell you how I obey Jesus.

I obey Jesus by not calling any of my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the most significant literature ever.

Your turn.
 
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