ECT Who is responsible for "dying to self"?

serpentdove

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[:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach: ] I don't believe I need any, serp. How 'bout scratching me off your list of the demon possessed you so freely announce, and I will do the same on my end?

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).
 

Cross Reference

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On Topic!

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16 (KJV)
 

chrysostom

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paul is responsible
-his stuff is hard to understand
-unlearned and unstable people will misquote him
-they might even nail their sins to the cross
 

Danoh

New member
paul is responsible
-his stuff is hard to understand
-unlearned and unstable people will misquote him
-they might even nail their sins to the cross

Some years ago, while discussing eternal security with a "works for salvation/works in order to stay saved" old school Pentecostal, he attempted to sway me to his view, based on PARTS OF the following passages, stripped of their overall scope and context...

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Curious about what those passages were actually referring to, I did what I often do whenever I have such a question.

I went home, grabbed an index card, numbered it from 1 to 50, and then proceeded to read Hebrews in its' entirety, that many times.

Soon into my reading, I began to note patterns in sameness within various verses in Hebrews.

One passage in one part of Hebrews shedding further light on some other passage in Hebrews.

With each reading, more and more passages began to come to mind as I was reading some other passages elsewhere in Scripture.

An aside:

Much later, when I ran into the Right Dividers, or MADs, and found we had some understandings in common, I couldn't help but be amused in a positive sense, by their same practice of both comparing and contrasting, various passages throughout Scripture, in light of overall scope and context.

In fact, where MADs hold a different understanding from that of other MADs; a failure on the part of one side as to this extensive verse comparison in light of overall scope and context practice that I have just described, is often behind it, on one side of the equation.

But anyway, only after those 50 times through Hebrews; the passages having begun to result in their own comparisons; contrasts; and light on one another, did I allow myself to begin to look at that old school Pentecostal's assertions.

And I found he had not had a solid grasp of the sense of the above passages at all.

I'll end this long wind with the following; chrysostum...

A man famous over the years throughout his country for his great lectures on the ocean, once had occassion to take some time off.

So he decided to visit the ocean.

As he stepped into the ocean, he was overheard to say "ah, so this is the ocean..."

In short, chrysostum, put away your theories and books by supposed experts, and Get - In - THE - Book!
 

Cross Reference

New member
Some years ago, while discussing eternal security with a "works for salvation/works in order to stay saved" old school Pentecostal, he attempted to sway me to his view, based on PARTS OF the following passages, stripped of their overall scope and context...

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For this I am going to assume you realize Jesus was man who didn't fail His mission, however, had He not taken necessary precautionary steps to avoid weakness, He could have failed. Had he failed, how could salvation ever be made available to Him since had He failed would have meant, God had failed as well.

Now pkease don't take this understanding somewhere else in an attempt you prove to me Jesus was always God. Scripture tells He divested Himself of divinity to suffer death, etc., etc., etc.. Lets not sidetrack the question and think about the "what if" in the matter, ok? The reward to our thinking is the realization of the "WHY" for the Glory God gives Him and we are included "IF" we endure as He did and in the same manner...His allegiance to our Father.
 

Faither

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We die to self daily. How do "we" do that? By faithing into Him. Faithing being a "personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender. "We die to self every time we surrender our lives to Jesus. It's 4100, pisteuo in the Greek. We die to self every time we surrender our lives to Him, and back up that surrender with the many decisions we make daily that show God we really have surrendered our lives to Him.
 

Cross Reference

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We die to self daily. How do "we" do that? By faithing into Him. Faithing being a "personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender. "We die to self every time we surrender our lives to Jesus. It's 4100, pisteuo in the Greek. We die to self every time we surrender our lives to Him, and back up that surrender with the many decisions we make daily that show God we really have surrendered our lives to Him.

And when temptation happens, then what? What can only be the reason for failure except the law of the flesh is stronger than dead doctrine? . . just askin'.
 

Faither

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And when temptation happens, then what? What can only be the reason for failure except the law of the flesh is stronger than dead doctrine? . . just askin'.

Rom 7: 14-21, the sinful nature tethers us to this world. But, when God accepts the surrendered life, we become sanctified or separated from that sinful nature. We become like paul when he says, "it's not me doing the sinning , but sin dwelling in me thats doing the sinning. " He is merely an onlooker, watching the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature in gauge in what the Greek describes as "trench warfare" over our souls. Our only way to be in the same state as Paul in Rom 7 is a continual surrendering of our lives to Him, that is simply what NT faith is. We are either surrendering to God the Holy Spirit inside us, or we are surrendering to the sinful nature inside us. What ever we surrender to the most will claim us.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Rom 7: 14-21, the sinful nature tethers us to this world. But, when God accepts the surrendered life, we become sanctified or separated from that sinful nature. We become like paul when he says, "it's not me doing the sinning , but sin dwelling in me thats doing the sinning. " He is merely an onlooker, watching the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature in gauge in what the Greek describes as "trench warfare" over our souls. Our only way to be in the same state as Paul in Rom 7 is a continual surrendering of our lives to Him, that is simply what NT faith is. We are either surrendering to God the Holy Spirit inside us, or we are surrendering to the sinful nature inside us. What ever we surrender to the most will claim us.

If it is as you say then what is overcoming sin all about? What is the law of the flesh?
 
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