When does one become part of the body of Christ?

[God's Truth]

If believing is not work, then, if a man believes, he does nothing. Conversely, if a man does nothing, then, he is believing. Therefore, to do NOTHING is believing. I don't think so.

To believe is to exercise faith. It is an act, hence, work.

This is so good to hear from you.

Faith is a work, and faith alone is dead it must be accompanied by more than itself.

 

[God's Truth]

We become a member in particular in the body of Christ when receive the gift of salvation.

We do this by meeting the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10

You keep posting that scripture to support believing and doing nothing.

That scripture proves we have to do something.

If you call someone Lord---then they became your Lord WHEN YOU OBEYED THEM.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

 

[God's Truth]

You were physically born into your earthly family.

You must be born again, I Peter 1:23, spiritually to be part of the family of God.

That is right, but one must be accepted first by Christ in order to be born into his family.

 

[God's Truth]

In that case, all are born already part of the body of Christ, because we all descended from Adam & Eve who were created in the image of God.

If it is argued that Adam sinned and was separated from God, then all his descendants are born NOT part of the Body of Christ. And we are back to square one: When does one become part of the body of Christ, without falling prey to salvation by works?

Epo is a Universalist.

 

[God's Truth]

People are not born part of the body of Christ unless their parents put them under grace from birth which rarely happens in our day. For most lost sinners they do not become part of the body of Christ until conversion which is the act of God not man. We don't have the power to convert ourselves which is like Nicodemus saying how can a man enter a second time into his mother's womb.

Parents can't make their children saved. AND, you are changing up your beliefs aren't you, for you said before that all were saved when Jesus died; which is not true.

 

[God's Truth]

IF, as alleged by both Calvinists and Arminians, people are born NOT part of the body of Christ, and it is God Who converts man who can do NOTHING unless first made part of the body of Christ, PLUGGED IN to Him Who is the ONLY source of power, under what circumstance will God initiate the conversion process?

If God, Who does not play favorites converts one, what would prevent our God of agape, Who wants all men saved, from converting all?

If these questions remain inadequately addressed via Scripture, then, the doctrine that people are born in sin is not scriptural and must be rejected.

You need to reject your teachings on faith alone.

You need to stop claiming to obey Jesus makes a condemnable works salvation.

The 'no works' is about no ceremonial works.

Only from hell would a person be condemned for believing and obeying Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Hardly.

If you believe that God is the author of scripture, then you might want to take your objection with him not me

Both you and Samie are entangled with false teachings. Get rid of the false teaching of faith alone without obedience.

 

[God's Truth]

Your own scripture quote shows your error and inability to properly divide the Word of truth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith and belief are not works.

There are the works of law that do not save:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


Those are the works of the law, it is the works that the people used to have to do to enter the covenant with God and be called His child. Those were the works that dealt with man's sin nature. It was about cleaning yourself to be able to go to the temple where God's Spirit was...those works though were a shadow of Jesus, a teaching tool about Jesus and being cleaned. Jesus cleans us now. Now one has to do those works anymore because just believing that Jesus' blood cleans us IS what CLEANS us. That is faith alone without works.

We are NOT saved by faith and not obeying Jesus.

God NO LONGER commands the purification/ceremonial works. Jesus fulfilled those things and now cleans us by our faith that he does. THAT DOES NOT mean we do not have to obey anything anymore.

Jesus tells us how to be saved, how to enter.

Do what he says right now and find the Way.

 

[God's Truth]

You can't do anything Samie, that's the whole lesson of conversion.

That is a lie from the pit of hell.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

 

[beloved57]

Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.

The Elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 which are also the Church the Body of Christ He gave Himself for Eph 5:25ff are the Body of Christ before the fooundation of the world, according to having been chosen in Him as Early !

 

[oatmeal]

You keep posting that scripture to support believing and doing nothing.

That scripture proves we have to do something.

If you call someone Lord---then they became your Lord WHEN YOU OBEYED THEM.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Do you have a point?

What is your beef? Specifically I mean.

It takes believing to receive anything from God.

Take for instance, Proverbs 3:5-6

God says that He will direct our paths

That's wonderful, but is there a prerequisite on our part for him to do so?

Yes, there are three prerequisites.

1. Trust in the Lord with all your heart

2. lean not unto your own understanding

3. in all your ways acknowledge him


then will He direct your paths

Is the promise greater than meeting the prerequisites?

Who does the great work?

a. God who directs our paths

b. Us in meeting the prerequisites

Does "b" even compare to "a"?

 

[Samie]

So are you saying that you can believe without the gospel? without the actual words on the page?

When Abraham believed, on what page was he?

If it all about Christ, please tell me where you learned that?

From Scriptures.

for that matter why bother with scripture whatsoever?

Well, I bother reading and believing what Scripture says.

That's why I was saying that before one can believe, he must first have the power to believe, and that power is derived from the ONLY source of power - Christ (1 Cor 1:24) Who Himself said that all power in heaven and earth was given Him (Matt 28:18). I really wonder why many preachers teach that while yet NOT plugged in to the ONLY source of power, people are able to do SOMETHING - see, hear, believe, instead of NOTHING as Christ Himself said (John 15:5).

 

[Samie]

You need to reject your teachings on faith alone.

You need to stop claiming to obey Jesus makes a condemnable works salvation.

The 'no works' is about no ceremonial works.

Only from hell would a person be condemned for believing and obeying Jesus.

Sorry, GT. But what you paraded in your post are not what I teach.

 

[Samie]

Do you likewise believe as I do that one is part of the body of Christ first before he can do any work?

That is impossible.

What is impossible is for one to be able to do SOMETHING without first having the power to do ANYTHING, and that power can only be had when one is PLUGGED IN first to the ONLY Source of power: Christ, the power of God (1 Cor 1:24), and Who Himself said that all power in heaven and earth is given Him (Matt 28:18), and that when NOT in Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:5).

 

[God's Truth]

Sorry, GT. But what you paraded in your post are not what I teach.

You preach only those already in Christ can obey and be saved; so, yes it is your nonsense that you teach, just a different spin on it.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you have a point?

What is your beef? Specifically I mean.

It takes believing to receive anything from God.

Take for instance, Proverbs 3:5-6

God says that He will direct our paths

That's wonderful, but is there a prerequisite on our part for him to do so?

Yes, there are three prerequisites.

1. Trust in the Lord with all your heart

2. lean not unto your own understanding

3. in all your ways acknowledge him


then will He direct your paths

Is the promise greater than meeting the prerequisites?

Who does the great work?

a. God who directs our paths

b. Us in meeting the prerequisites

Does "b" even compare to "a"?

In all your ways acknowledge Him MEANS OBEY HIM.

 

[Samie]

You preach only those already in Christ can obey and be saved; so, yes it is your nonsense that you teach, just a different spin on it.

I don't think you understand what I teach.

Again, I'm saying that it is impossible is for one to be able to do SOMETHING without first having the power to do ANYTHING, and that power can only be had when one is PLUGGED IN first to the ONLY Source of power: Christ, the power of God (1 Cor 1:24), and Who Himself said that all power in heaven and earth is given Him (Matt 28:18), and that when NOT in Him, man can do NOTHING (John 15:5).

The electric bulb shines because it is PLUGGED IN to the source of power; it does not shine for it to be plugged in. So with us. We can do something because we have the power to do it, being plugged in to Him Who is the only source of power - Christ.

How is that nonsense, GT?

 

[ttruscott]

So are you saying that you can believe without the gospel? without the actual words on the page?

If it all about Christ, please tell me where you learned that? for that matter why bother with scripture whatsoever?

How did the thief on the cross come to his revelation about Jesus? Did the people being converted in Acts of the Apostles have words on a page? Your legalism is suspect...

 

[ttruscott]

It takes believing to receive anything from God.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Who is this person who receives this faith by grace...? A person who is a believer already or a person who needs conversion and does not yet believe?

 

[oatmeal]

When Abraham believed, on what page was he?

From Scriptures.

Well, I bother reading and believing what Scripture says.

That's why I was saying that before one can believe, he must first have the power to believe, and that power is derived from the ONLY source of power - Christ (1 Cor 1:24) Who Himself said that all power in heaven and earth was given Him (Matt 28:18). I really wonder why many preachers teach that while yet NOT plugged in to the ONLY source of power, people are able to do SOMETHING - see, hear, believe, instead of NOTHING as Christ Himself said (John 15:5).

The power to believe is part of every human being.

Because all humans have a brain, a mind, and the ability to use them

Granted, all ultimately came from God, but it is not in addition to what was part of the original design.

Adam and Eve had the power to use their brains, their mind and the ability to choose, as do all humans

What anyone chooses to believe after that is dependent on what they learn or are taught from references outside of themselves.

You can choose to believe God or not believe God.

You can choose to do confess and believe, Romans 10:9-10, or not.

As far as Abraham goes, I am thankful that I have the written logos of God to refer to.

Imagine if you were expected to remember all of what scripture says without a written record.

God revealed himself to His holy prophets and other men and women of God by revelation.

Some of what God revealed God had men like Moses, Jeremiah... etc. write down