What is the Gospel?

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

Maybe.


Infinity does not arrive at a destination.
Neither does time.
You can't have infinity without time because infinity is a term for infinite time frontwards and backwards.

I understand your perspective and appreciate you sharing it. This is a heartfelt matter for all, because it is beyond scriptures direct scope and thus very special.

It’s easy for me to forget how much all of us here Love God, and how meaningful the sharing of our deep thoughts about Him are.

 

[meshak]

I understand your perspective and appreciate you sharing it. This is a heartfelt matter for all, because it is beyond scriptures direct scope and thus very special.

It’s easy for me to forget how much all of us here Love God, and how meaningful the sharing of our deep thoughts about Him are.

If we remember the idea that God and Jesus are love, we cannot go wrong. We don't need so much knowledge.

Jesus looks into our hearts.

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

If we remember the idea that God and Jesus are love, we cannot go wrong. We don't need so much knowledge.

Jesus looks into our hearts.

I agree

 

[Tambora]

How can time go back forever? How old is God?

Ancient of days.

Once again, you are thinking in terms of the created universe and not the eternal God.

I'm thinking of how scripture speaks of GOD, not how some philosopher speaks of GOD.

I don't see anywhere in scripture that says GOD ever did anything out of sequence.
Sequence requires time.
And if scripture doesn't tell us anything GOD did out of sequence, then why should we interject that notion into our thoughts of how GOD operates?

 

[Tambora]

I agree

When GOD looks in the heart of Meshak, will He see a heart that places only the obedience and righteousness of Christ that saves, or does she include her own obedience and righteousness?
Cause Meshak's words only reflect one of those options.

 

[Tambora]

If we remember the idea that God and Jesus are love, we cannot go wrong. We don't need so much knowledge.

Jesus looks into our hearts.

Willful defiance is not ignorance, it's just defiance.
You openly defy most of scripture.

 

[Right Divider]

Ancient of days.

That is a figure of speech. Do you think that you can count those days?

I'm thinking of how scripture speaks of GOD, not how some philosopher speaks of GOD.

Scripture often condescends to a human perspective since its target audience is humans and it often uses anthropomorphism's in relation to God's interaction with man.

I don't see anywhere in scripture that says GOD ever did anything out of sequence.

That is a red herring.

Sequence requires time.
And if scripture doesn't tell us anything GOD did out of sequence, then why should we interject that notion into our thoughts of how GOD operates?

Red herring.

 

[Tambora]

That is a figure of speech. Do you think that you can count those days?

What is it a figure of speech of?

 

[Tambora]

Scripture often condescends to a human perspective since its target audience is humans and it often uses anthropomorphism's in relation to God's interaction with man.

Then that's how we should speak of Him.
We shouldn't go beyond what He says of Himself and the way He says it.

 

[Tambora]

That is a red herring.


Red herring.

Scripture source is a red herring???

 

[JudgeRightly]

The absurdity of Religious Judgment per the Law.

Jesus says Judge not lest ye be judged.

Jesus says, "Hypocrites, judge not lest you be judged."

Read closely.

“Judge not, that you be not judged.For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. - Matthew 7:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:1-5&version=NKJV

Notice that Jesus doesn't actually condemn the removing of the mote in your brother's eye, He tells us to make sure we're not committing the same sin, so that we are not influenced to judge unrighteously.

One sinner forgiven wants to judge other sinners.

JESUS HIMSELF tells us to judge with righteous judgment.

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” - John 7:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John7:24&version=NKJV

A forgiven sinner says... Oy! Ya might want to remember what Jesus said.

Hypocrite, look in the mirror.

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:2-5&version=NKJV

The sinner forgiven that likes judging to feel better than other sinners replies... Oy... your judging me!

Someone who judges someone else for judging, even and especially if the former thinks judging is wrong, is a hypocrite.

The one who judges rightly, who believes judging to be good, is in line with scripture.

But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.For “who has known the mind of the L ord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians2:15-16&version=NKJV

The Fallacious argument of the forgiven sinner (1 John 1:8) that likes to judge other sinners ... falls flat on it’s face.

As far as I'm aware, not one Christian here in this thread who has participated has claimed to no longer sin.

However, Paul tells us that we saints are no longer called sinners, but saved, because of what Christ did. "Sinner" no longer applies to us, even though we still sin.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.For he who has died has been freed from sin.Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:1-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-23&version=NKJV

Argument A: Listen to Jesus
Argument B: Judge Not lest ye be judged is only for those with planks in their eye. (Spiritual Irony in play)

 

[Right Divider]

What is it a figure of speech of?

It is symbolic of His authority over everything.

Dan 7:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:9) ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.
​

The entire verse is symbolism.

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

When GOD looks in the heart of Meshak, will He see a heart that places only the obedience and righteousness of Christ that saves, or does she include her own obedience and righteousness?
Cause Meshak's words only reflect one of those options.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God

Only God and Meshak know Meshak’s heart.

 

[Right Divider]

Then that's how we should speak of Him.
We shouldn't go beyond what He says of Himself and the way He says it.

I agree and I don't go beyond.

When the Bible is speaking about God interacting with His creation, it is speaking about Him interacting with His creation.

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

Jesus says, "Hypocrites, judge not lest you be judged."

Read closely.

“Judge not, that you be not judged.For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. - Matthew 7:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:1-5&version=NKJV

Notice that Jesus doesn't actually condemn the removing of the mote in your brother's eye, He tells us to make sure we're not committing the same sin, so that we are not influenced to judge unrighteously.



JESUS HIMSELF tells us to judge with righteous judgment.

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” - John 7:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John7:24&version=NKJV



Hypocrite, look in the mirror.

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:2-5&version=NKJV



Someone who judges someone else for judging, even and especially if the former thinks judging is wrong, is a hypocrite.

The one who judges rightly, who believes judging to be good, is in line with scripture.

But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.For “who has known the mind of the L ord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians2:15-16&version=NKJV



As far as I'm aware, not one Christian here in this thread who has participated has claimed to no longer sin.

However, Paul tells us that we saints are no longer called sinners, but saved, because of what Christ did. "Sinner" no longer applies to us, even though we still sin.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.For he who has died has been freed from sin.Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:1-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-23&version=NKJV

JR,

You and I have never clashed.

I’m stepping out on a limb that you judge doctrine and not people. I could be wrong.

 

[glorydaz]

:mock: The Evil One's "LOVING" address to Clete. And an entire spoiler filled with his New Man of "love and forgiveness". :sigh:

I had you nailed within my last post that you dodged and lifted To arrogance towards. You and Glory are of the same spiritual makeup.

As far as you employing the words “ground to powder”... I find your mind too rigid to even begin discussion of “judgment” with. ... because you fancy yourself a god. I will speak no more, but to point out the arrogance that dares belittle and in Glory’s place... judge others arrogant.

Spoiler

Okay... proof Glory is being "Intellectually Dishonest" with you and others here. She wants to say key Calvinist phrases and claim she doesn't embrace the "L". Well, nope. Not going to happen. She is relentless on others and daily tells many people they are hypocrites and Proud... but do as she says, not as she does!

I addressed this so ardently because [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] is indeed a Calvinist and he will say the Atonement is sufficient in ability for all, but not "indented" for all. In other words... after hours of debate... Lon will say... "Jesus only died for those that "believe". This is Glorydaz exact stance and it is proven in her very own words!

Calvinist's even say that the Blood "could" save all, but it is not for "all". This is not a semantics GAME! It is saying we shouldn't tell others Jesus died for all. Glorydaz applauded the quote that you initially saw from [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] ... that he had taken from a Calvinist on the site... about it being ... some harsh word like abominable or something... to tell all people that Jesus died for them.

Clete...

You are a scholarly person... reach past the bias. The evidence is clear, and you all would do well to humble and correct Glory! She does it daily for others. It would be well if someone she would listen to would be 100 with her!

I've never been a butt kisser and I never will. I'm transparent and I have even talked as I talk sometimes publicly... here. I don't hide the music I listen to, language I use, or the fact that I am a saved sinner! You can write this off, but Clete... I didn't get so upset because I dislike Glory... but because I used to see her as a powerful witness, but now... I see hooks that are bad in her.



I have no issue saying we all struggle with hypocrisy... (We includes I) I have no issue with saying I have imperfect Love. I do feel convicted for all of the hate I've dished out under the applause of people like Glorydaz and others... on this site. The issue here is that this is Glory... again refusing to say the words... Jesus died for ALL.

You say that anything else is essentially demented. Well, by your words... the message and judgment is clear. I would say opinion, but you like the word "Judge".







This is Limited Atonement... flirtation... and though the Atonement is said to be "Sufficient"... she is iterating that she refuses to tell the unbeliever that Jesus died for them.

The attitude here appears to be that the Holy Spirit isn't there to explain this to the individual... but instead... Glory inserts herself into the need of the person knowing that the person will die in their sins... the issue here is that Glory knows that Sonnet already knows this portion of the Gospel and thus... Glory is deferring.... to a 50% argument that says... "No... Because that person may die in their sins if I tell them Jesus Died for their sins..."

Sonnets point and the Bibles is "Behold what manner of LOVE"... "While we were yet sinners"... "He Who justifies the Ungodly" "While we were at enmity"...



Sonnet didn't ask this... and Glory knows Sonnet already knows what she is intentionally saying to avoid saying "Jesus died for even the unbelieving". The fact remains that Glory corrects people for saying that Jesus died for all. You can even go to Pate's threads and see her in action. She's becoming a regular TULIP Bee. She's Duplicitous and I wanted to drop this, but you exonerated her out of friendship, instead of doing research for a matter you decided to help mediate. I trusted you to research something you were stepping into without bias.

I was wrong.



Clete,

I'm glad you are a "Will" Theist. I see your point, but think we have to say "Free" because of the massive damage Reformed influence has had on western civilization. It's like people need to be reminded they have a brain God gave them, and they are allowed to use it.



This is in response to me forgiving someone for calling me an Unbeliever, a source of discord, invalid and many other things that have been leveled all throughout this thread.

Did I lose my stuff? Oh yes. I admitted shame for losing it! I even wanted to speak kindly to [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] , but she mocked me when I did and like a fool, I took the bait and talked to her like she consistently talks to others... out of pride and hostility, while hiding behind a thin veil of self justification.

If you actually were emotionally invested in me as a friend like you are Glory, you would have had the courtesy to look through this thread before you said something so void of a Holy Spirit Softened Heart... but the fact remains that you most likely dislike certain views I have and know that I don't believe in "Republican Moral Majority Jesus"... thus... you claim I don't have thick skin.

The truth is that I was enormously applauded when I ripped people to shreds and placed Theological agenda over human compassion.

I literally burned all of that applause and humbled myself for my errors... out of conviction of the Holy Spirit. I wanted all the credibility I had obtained while hurting fellow human beings that Jesus died for... to go away... hence... I asked [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] to please destroy my old EE account.

The book of James supports my case and explains what the Holy Spirit has done to my heart.



Like when Jesus said... "I did not come to condemn the world but to save it"? Or, when He said... "Woman where are your accusers... I accuse you neither".

Or, how about... "Father forgive them, they know not what they do"?

How about... "Forgive 70 X 7"?

I think the issue is Bob E. is an idol here... and he promotes judging sinners that Jesus died for. How do I know Jesus died for even the sinners that Christians like to single out? Because Paul makes it clear... "WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST DIED FOR US"...

Funny how the whole judge not thing comes into light. I judge doctrine, not people.. and brother... there is a difference and Christianity as a whole would be much more full of the flavor of Love if it understood.

When most Christians in the US are a step away from Westborro Baptist Church... just without the guts they have to boldly proclaim their hatred for people... We have a problem Denver Bible. (See what I did? I replaced Houston with DBC) DBC looks wonderful BTW... I wish I could go there. The outreach on their web site, does look enormously valuable. That means a bunch!



So forgiveness as Jesus taught is a sham? The "Love your enemy" and "While we were yet Sinners" thing should clear this up.

I think Jesus has taken a back seat to the religion built around Him. We all screw up! Judge NOT means more that most admit. And why? Because people like to point fingers and say... "ewwwwww"... thank God I'm not them. James 2 and Romans 2 explain that that is spiritual SUICIDE!



I wonder who our example will be? Jesus... perhaps? He's the light and He showed us that the brutal and Spiritually judgmental of others sins are the ones that have the heat coming.

Remember Matthew 23? Remember that He came for the SINNERS and not the "Self Righteous"?



Contained in the spoiler is a link of Glorydaz teaching apathy. If we don't put our heart that Jesus gave us into the matter... we are worthless Gongs and Clanging cymbals.

Love exercises GRACE and GRACE is the FACE God wears when He sees imperfect, wicked us.

Spoiler

Glorydaz justifying apathy... despite the New Heart that Jesus gives us

Resting in His Grace and aware I am a flawed human being that was saved by the PERFECT King of Kings,

Nameless.in.Grace.Evil.Eye.<(@)>

Spoiler

:mock: The Evil Ones "Loving Counsel" to his brethren.

As far as meshak is concerned... at least Meshak has the fortitude to recognize that scripture defines how we should treat one another. I’ve screwed that up... and I might just screw up again... but the Spirit lets me know and I admit it!
meshak... don’t let them provoke you to anger... Glory and Crews Game is to do that and then say... aha! Or dig up your past posts and say... aha!

Love keeps no record of wrongs... so have no worries and again... forgive and move on.

Yep, and this is exactly what all hypocrites do.

They preach one thing after having done the exact opposite the minute before.

I can just see the "LOVE" and "FORGIVENESS" coming from the Evil One. Performed for the eyes of men. It's all a POSE. A MASK he puts on to deceive the gullible. :nono:

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

To be forth right... Infinity and Time are contradictory. We have a beginning. God doesn’t. This is the only mathematical conclusion.

Count to negative infinity and you will begin to get the point.

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

:mock: The Evil One's "LOVING" address to Clete. And an entire spoiler filled with his New Man of "love and forgiveness". :sigh:




:mock: The Evil Ones "Loving Counsel" to his brethren.



Yep, and this is exactly what all hypocrites do.

They preach one thing after having done the exact opposite the minute before.

I can just see the "LOVE" and "FORGIVENESS" coming from the Evil One. Performed for the eyes of men. It's all a POSE. A MASK he puts on to deceive the gullible. :nono:

Yes, yes... EE... ToL Anti Christ. I get it.

 

[glorydaz]

As a senior citizen was driving down the freeway, her car phone rang. Answering, she heard her husband’s voice urgently warning her”, Glory, I just heard on the news that there's a car going the wrong way on 280. Please be careful!"

"Heck," said Glory, "It's not just one car. It's hundreds of them!"

The Evil One is truly obsessed with me.

Could it be because I pointed out his pointy ears and sharp teeth? :think:

 

[Evil.Eye.*{@}*]

The Evil One is truly obsessed with me.

Could it be because I pointed out his pointy ears and sharp teeth? :think:

Indeed... You are a regular Bob Ross