What is the express image of God?

[keypurr]

See the difference when the translation to English comes from the :

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha.
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands……….

Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.

Miltha is the spiritual son of Elohim (God).
Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua (Jesus Christ)
YHWH is the name of the most high God.
Ruach haKodesh is the Holy Spirit.
Elohim is God or a god, it can refer to more than the creator.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You ask a very tough question freelight. But I would think that what God has joined together would stay together. Jesus Christ is our high priest. As human he paid the price for us, but that spirit became human to serve mankind, that spirit suffered along with Jesus. But I only am using my limited thought processor on this question friend. Nothing is impossible for our God. Christ is the first of all creation, he was given the power to carry out any task his Father gave him to do.

I feel very strong in my faith, I did not come to this conclusion by myself. I have been blessed, but I still have so much to learn and so little time to do it.

Yer way off base Keeps.

Yeshua was implanted in Mary.

Yeshua had the same soul and mind he had from before.

When he found himself fashioned as a man he humbled himself.


Philippians 2:8 KJV


8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Look, only Yeshua's spirit could humble himself while in a flesh body.

All other creatures had been subjected to vanity.

Yashua Messiah came to learn obedience and become the author of eternal salvation.

At his baptism the Spirit of God settled on him and he was begotten.

Not the Spirit of Messiah.

 

[freelight]

Christ, does he have a beginning?

Christ, does he have a beginning?

~*~*~

Hi keypurr,

I've dived back into some Arian studies (Arius in particular and some contemporaries), and was curious to see how much of your views correlate/agree with his. I know there's been some innovations since his time, with various modifications as well as 'semi-arian' views, etc.... so some versatility involved.

Since you hold that 'Christ' the spiritual son of God, or the 'logos' came into being before creation (at a 'point' in 'time'), as the Firstborn of creation (therefore is a 'creation' or 'offspring' himself), and all creation thus came 'by' or 'thru' him...do you acknowledge then that Christ is NOT co-eternal with the Father, in other words...there was a time when Christ was not (did not exist before time, before creation). Is this correct?

The second question concerns 'if' and 'how' Christ is like the Father. I know early church councils went thru the hoops on this one concerning the relationship between God and Christ with terms like 'homoousios' (same being), homoiousios (alike in substance), homoios (like), anhomoios (unlike), etc. There were sects/schools holding to various particulars. This can get metaphysically taxing somewhat,....but here is the 2nd question: Does Christ has the exact same nature/essence/being as the Father, or is Christ only like the Father, of a like substance/essence but different, being a created offspring of God? Does this 'likeness' (as an express image, or spiritual offspring) qualify Christ as being 'divine' or in a special or lower class of divinity as the begotten Son of God?

So, these two question-contexts, concern whether Christ is eternal (without beginning), and if or how Christ is like the Father, in substance or nature. If you can explain your view as detailed as possible, appreciated

Arianism as a nexus-point of Christological controversy deserves its own thread,...perhaps a new 'Historical Arianism' thread will be forthcoming, since my former one is no longer extant.

 

[Aimiel]

So turning water into wine, healing the blind man, raising the dead, ect., ect., was just walking entirely as a man on this earth. Perhaps now you see my incredulity at your statement. Peace

Yes, His deeds were the result of a man walking in obedience to God and making use of the Covenants available to them. Dead had been raised by men before Christ did so. Every soul who looked up to the bronze serpent that Moses erected when bitten by a snake was healed. Miracles should be commonplace, not the exception. God provides more than you've yet realized; especially in light of the Covenant WE are under.

 

[RBBI]

Yes, His deeds were the result of a man walking in obedience to God and making use of the Covenants available to them. Dead had been raised by men before Christ did so. Every soul who looked up to the bronze serpent that Moses erected when bitten by a snake was healed. Miracles should be commonplace, not the exception. God provides more than you've yet realized; especially in light of the Covenant WE are under.

Do tell.....peace.

 

[RBBI]

If I could interject......what is it that made Him the Son of God? His flesh or His Spirit? ONLY begotten means, there's only one, and that one became a many-membered seed when it fell to the ground and died, producing a harvest. It is not the flesh of Yeshua that makes any of us adopted, it is the seed of the Son that we received, and that seed also has to grow to maturity in us.

There is one seed, but many members to that body, and that body is not of flesh of Yeshua. What you interpret as being Spirit of God is the SON of HaShem, a fully formed being, who existed from the beginning, and whose image and likeness has been reproduced in us, just like the fullness of Him that begot Him, was reproduced in Him, grace for grace have we ALL received.

The translators translated 3 Greek words into son further obscuring the meaning intended as usual, but in reality, they mean "babes, youths, mature sons", corresponding once again to the 3 compartments of the tabernacle.

A very real experience happened to an old friend of mine who was having trouble obeying HaShem in coming out from under the Assembly of God false covering. She went to a convention of 5000 AOG pastors in a convention center, and the Lord showed her Yeshua in a vision, in every one of them as she looked out over the place, BOUND, saying, "Set me free!" Peace

 

[Aimiel]

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jesus' Body was conceived by The Father, but He was in Heaven, before creation. All things were created by Him, for Him and through Him. He is way more than Keypurr has imagined.

 

[RBBI]

Yes, but it wasn't flesh....

 

[Aimiel]

So, The One Who created flesh from the dust of the ground could not take on The Form of Flesh, if He so desired? Everyone has this 'idea' of God being Spirit, but being some wispy ghost-like nothing with no form or shape. Spirit is ABOVE flesh, not beneath it. Just because we don't have the ability to see or feel God doesn't mean that He is Casper the ghost. He is Spirit, but that means that He is whatever He needs to be wherever He needs to be whenever He needs to be.

 

[RBBI]

No, not everyone does. There is flesh terrestrial and flesh celestial, and different glories. Peace

 

[Puppet]

Because they deny the deity of both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, Jehovah's Witnesses deny the essential Bible doctrine of the Trinity. In fact, they say that those who believe in the Trinity are apostates who will be annihilated by God.

 

[RBBI]

Because they deny the deity of both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, Jehovah's Witnesses deny the essential Bible doctrine of the Trinity. In fact, they say that those who believe in the Trinity are apostates who will be annihilated by God.

Am I to understand you think "we" as in me included, is a JW? Roflol.....nothing could be farther from the truth. Peace

 

[keypurr]

Yer way off base Keeps.



Yeshua was implanted in Mary.



Yeshua had the same soul and mind he had from before.



When he found himself fashioned as a man he humbled himself.





Philippians 2:8 KJV





8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.





Look, only Yeshua's spirit could humble himself while in a flesh body.



All other creatures had been subjected to vanity.



Yashua Messiah came to learn obedience and become the author of eternal salvation.



At his baptism the Spirit of God settled on him and he was begotten.



Not the Spirit of Messiah.

Its not about Yeshua friend, its about the spirit son of God that was IN him.

Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with the Christ. Jesus is the shell that held the seed from our God. He descended from heaven to dwell in Jesus to make a better understanding of God to mankind. Christ, the spirit son, is the son of man. He alone has come down to us, Jesus did not pre exist, Christ did.

 

[keypurr]

~*~*~



Hi keypurr,



I've dived back into some Arian studies (Arius in particular and some contemporaries), and was curious to see how much of your views correlate/agree with his. I know there's been some innovations since his time, with various modifications as well as 'semi-arian' views, etc.... so some versatility involved.



Since you hold that 'Christ' the spiritual son of God, or the 'logos' came into being before creation (at a 'point' in 'time'), as the Firstborn of creation (therefore is a 'creation' or 'offspring' himself), and all creation thus came 'by' or 'thru' him...do you acknowledge then that Christ is NOT co-eternal with the Father, in other words...there was a time when Christ was not (did not exist before time, before creation). Is this correct?



The second question concerns 'if' and 'how' Christ is like the Father. I know early church councils went thru the hoops on this one concerning the relationship between God and Christ with terms like 'homoousios' (same being), homoiousios (alike in substance), homoios (like), anhomoios (unlike), etc. There were sects/schools holding to various particulars. This can get metaphysically taxing somewhat,....but here is the 2nd question: Does Christ has the exact same nature/essence/being as the Father, or is Christ only like the Father, of a like substance/essence but different, being a created offspring of God? Does this 'likeness' (as an express image, or spiritual offspring) qualify Christ as being 'divine' or in a special or lower class of divinity as the begotten Son of God?



So, these two question-contexts, concern whether Christ is eternal (without beginning), and if or how Christ is like the Father, in substance or nature. If you can explain your view as detailed as possible, appreciated



Arianism as a nexus-point of Christological controversy deserves its own thread,...perhaps a new 'Historical Arianism' thread will be forthcoming, since my former one is no longer extant.

Consider that time might have began at the creation so Christ was created before our time was. This is pure speculation on my part but it could be.

Christ is the express IMAGE so he would be made in like substance, not the same substance of his creator. Every image in not the subject of the image, it is just an image of the substance. God being a spirit being created another spirit being which he used to create everything else. Eternal, to my understanding, concerns not ending. Only the Father is without beginning. Christ had a beginning before time as we know it.

 

[RBBI]

Time did begin at the creation, because time is the measurement of death; something has to die to create time. In this case, that something was the Seed who was slain from the foundation, making time and the invisible, visible. There is no time in the Spirit, because there is no death in the Spirit.

For instance; observe the seasons of the trees. When you see the leaves fall, a type of "death" occurs in winter. This is why the scripture says to take care that your flight be not in winter (death). Peace

 

[keypurr]

What is the express image of God?

Time did begin at the creation, because time is the measurement of death; something has to die to create time. In this case, that something was the Seed who was slain from the foundation, making time and the invisible, visible. There is no time in the Spirit, because there is no death in the Spirit.



For instance; observe the seasons of the trees. When you see the leaves fall, a type of "death" occurs in winter. This is why the scripture says to take care that your flight be not in winter (death). Peace

Not to many folks give that a thought. Time has always been to them. What does man really know about time before the creation??? Nothing. There was none?? How can there be movement without time???

Questions that may never be answered.

But did not the spirit of God move across the face of the waters?. Was that the start of time?

 

[Omniskeptical]

Yes, His deeds were the result of a man walking in obedience to God and making use of the Covenants available to them. Dead had been raised by men before Christ did so. Every soul who looked up to the bronze serpent that Moses erected when bitten by a snake was healed. Miracles should be commonplace, not the exception. God provides more than you've yet realized; especially in light of the Covenant WE are under.

Total manure. God did not spare Job from Satan, and yet you think miracles happen because of faith. Miracles are the exception. God is a sadist, because he doesn't want lazy people revering him.

Modern science is the closest thing to a miracle in these days, and God is not disappointed by Mankind in such regard.

 

[RBBI]

Manure is right. Miracles DO happen, and faith combined with action (works) moves the hand of HaShem to heal. I know; I'm a walking miracle. Peace

 

[Bright Raven]

Manure is right. Miracles DO happen, and faith combined with action (works) moves the hand of HaShem to heal. I know; I'm a walking miracle. Peace

:thumb:

 

[RBBI]

Not to many folks give that a thought. Time has always been to them. What does man really know about time before the creation??? Nothing. There was none?? How can there be movement without time???

Questions that may never be answered.

But did not the spirit of God move across the face of the waters?. Was that the start of time?

The start of it was the "death" or lowering of the Spiritual into the physical.

I had a vision once in a bible study during prayer and worship. I saw light moving really fast, coming from my left and it slowed down and as it did it became darker and darker until it was pitch black and slowed down to a stop nearly. Then it started to speed up again, becoming lighter and lighter and faster and faster until it was completely light as before speeding past me to my right. Just then He spoke, "You have just witnessed creation."

We came from HaShem and we will return to Him. Peace