toldailytopic: Why do atheists spend so much time on Christian forums such as Theolog

[Town Heretic]

Well, there's more to happiness than just not believing in a god.

Where I'd be inclined to say there's no real happiness absent God, only echoes that feel sufficient for a want of compare.

There's a whole different way of viewing life, that has to be built up.

Hmmm. I would have said there is a way of life stripped of artifice in my days on that side of the river, but to each his own.

I don't necessarily place myself as a model of how to do this...but it's a work in progress.

I think that's true enough for anyone earnestly attempting to navigate the experience of life and its oddly comforting, these similarities of ours. Don't you think?

What I do know is that I'm a lot happier not trying to believe things which I can't,

That makes sense to me, though I suspect most of our limitations in this regard are self inflicted.

and that there are a good many people who live in perpetual guilt which is essentially baseless because of religion.

I think that's a great deal of hooey, but I understand you. That is, if you're miserable with God you might have standards issues. lain:

Well, I had precisely the opposite experience.

Then, with respect, you had something that wasn't what I'm describing/experiencing, but I'm sorry that you went through whatever it was....

I just assume that everyone else is fundamentally like me.

Where I'm more inclined to suspect no one is, but that God, thank God, is rather constant.

 

[Nick_A]

Well, there's more to happiness than just not believing in a god. There's a whole different way of viewing life, that has to be built up. I don't necessarily place myself as a model of how to do this...but it's a work in progress. What I do know is that I'm a lot happier not trying to believe things which I can't, and that there are a good many people who live in perpetual guilt which is essentially baseless because of religion.



Well, I had precisely the opposite experience. I just assume that everyone else is fundamentally like me.

Well Rex, if it's any consolation, I agree with you. Blind belief IMO just enables a person to turn in circles from the need for consolation and self justification.

Perhaps you are not really an atheist but just wary of blind belief.

"Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong."
- Simone Weil, Faiths of Meditation; Contemplation of the divine,
the Simone Weil Reader, edited by George A. Panichas (David McKay Co. NY 1977) p 417

If she's right, it adds and entirely new potential to the relationship between the essence of religion and atheism.

 

[Flipper]

Why do you feel compelled to trounce even if they appear wrong to you? That is the question. If they come into Richard Dawkins site and begin to preach I can see why you would want to trounce. But the question is why come to a Christian site in order to trounce?

Who wants to hang around in a giant echo chamber of agreement? That's totally boring. A lot of atheists really enjoy seeking out arguments of all kinds.

Heck, I got cornered around a camp fire in Montana by a couple of tea partiers who were spoiling for debate. It fairly made my vacation.

 

[Nick_A]

Who wants to hang around in a giant echo chamber of agreement? That's totally boring. A lot of atheists really enjoy seeking out arguments of all kinds.

Heck, I got cornered around a camp fire in Montana by a couple of tea partiers who were spoiling for debate. It fairly made my vacation.

Discussion is one thing and trouncing is another. If you want to discuss the relationship between the essence of religion and atheism, I'm game. I just have no reason to attack. I just appreciate discussing the human condition and its possible conscious potential.

Not many atheists I know are willing to do it since they hide behind a demand for proof or bottom up reason. But a meaningful discussion requires being open to top down reason as well.

Atheists are quick to defend bottom up "evolution." Yet discussing "involution" or the top down universal process of unity into diversity that creates the foundation for evolution is taboo and falls to the demand to "prove it" before pondering it.

The result is that atheism only accepts evolution or half of a cyclical universal process. It is like saying "What goes up" without adding "must come down." Nothing can be understood in this way. So without discussion the only alternative appears to be to trounce.

I don't see the sense of it, but it happens.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No, you have directly stated that what I say is irrelevant. You will always consider me an inherent liar because you believe the scripture does, and will always accurately describe every atheist that has ever lived and will live. Your attitude will never convert anyone to your cause because you refuse to listen to them.

What you say is not irrelevant, only devoid of any foundation that would make what you say genuinely meaningful, other than to showcase what I have been saying all along. So, yes, there's that.

By the way, any Christian who claims they have converted someone needs to be shown to the woodshed immediately.

And what part of what I have said precisely confirms that?

How many posts have you made so far? :squint:

Reading the content of your posts and the tired canards you are tossing about, I suspect you are a relatively new non-believer or else a very inept one. With time and practice you may perfect the insidiousness craft of your ilk to the level that some among the faithful will actually count you as charming and entertaining. But for the time being you are just a screaming child in the room where grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.

AMR

 

[aSeattleConserv]

There’s not much to elaborate, boss.

Even atheists acknowledge that they answer to someone. Today a blog administrator; who knows, maybe God tomorrow.

 

[DoogieTalons]

For me it's like missionary work only the message is this.

1) Stop wasting your life submitting to Gods made up by men to control you, your thoughts and your intelligence.

2) Once you are stupid enough to believe this stuff don't take out your gullibility on others like children for example the creation "Museum" and all this intelligent design nonsense.

3) My salvation is none of your business, if your god can't convert me what chance do you have ?

4) Someone has to keep telling you all how dumb you are.

 

[Frank Ernest]

For me it's like missionary work only the message is this.

1) Stop wasting your life submitting to Gods made up by men to control you, your thoughts and your intelligence.

Can I stop wasting my life by rejecting you?

2) Once you are stupid enough to believe this stuff don't take out your gullibility on others like children for example the creation "Museum" and all this intelligent design nonsense.

And then we become stupid enough to believe you and your nonsense?

3) My salvation is none of your business, if your god can't convert me what chance do you have ?

I agree. Matthew 7:6 (KJV)

4) Someone has to keep telling you all how dumb you are.

:darwinsm: We try to tell you, but you won't listen.

 

[DoogieTalons]

Can I stop wasting my life by rejecting you?

You couldn't reject me if you tried, deep down inside you know conversing with athiests is the only thing keeping you sane !

And then we become stupid enough to believe you and your nonsense?

Oh please you believe in a GOD how dumb can you get, people used to pray to gods to get love and clear seas and you do the same silly things. Ritual and obedience and to be frank Frank.. you're no better than it.

I agree. Matthew 7:6 (KJV)

Yet still y'all do it. Day after day after day. See? dumb!

:darwinsm: We try to tell you, but you won't listen.

Oh the that's what you are what am I line, great are you still at school ?

 

[Frank Ernest]

You couldn't reject me if you tried, deep down inside you know conversing with athiests is the only thing keeping you sane !
Oh please you believe in a GOD how dumb can you get, people used to pray to gods to get love and clear seas and you do the same silly things. Ritual and obedience and to be frank Frank.. you're no better than it.
Yet still y'all do it. Day after day after day. See? dumb!
Oh the that's what you are what am I line, great are you still at school ?

:rotfl: As a missionary, you suck. :argue: Matthew 7:19 (KJV)

 

[DoogieTalons]

Matthew 7:19 (KJV)

LOL Turn or burn, pathetic that all your God has for us is fear. You still don't see it do you ?

If there was a creator, all I could ask of God is "Really, that the best you can do?"

My imagination is far more creative than every word in the bible. It's so obvious that is was written by superstitious nutters trying to make sense of the crazy world around them.

Adam and Eve LOL
Stupid nonsensical story about God making mistakes.

Noah LOL
Stupid nonsenical story about God regretting his mistakes and compounding those errors with even more mistakes.

Jonah and the whale LOL
Where to start ?

Bable LOL
God geting miffed at his mistakes continuing to annoy him so then pettily makes them talk different languages... whens the amendment to what he's gonna do about all these different lanuages building a space station ?

Soddom and Gammorah LOL
Here rape some daughters not angels !!!

Everything in acts LOL
Some fool thinks he see's god and goes onto write about him for far too many books. If you believe this you may as well also be a mormon, many a clown has believed they speak for God. Why do you believe this one his claims are no less idiotic.


Want me to go on ? If you were to come across the bible and read it on your own without some loony telling you what it means it would be consigned to the bin as a third rate read at best. I might keep it in the loo so I can dip in and out everynow and then for a few laughs.

AND YOU FOLLOW IT !!!:hammer:

 

[Nick_A]

LOL Turn or burn, pathetic that all your God has for us is fear. You still don't see it do you ?

If there was a creator, all I could ask of God is "Really, that the best you can do?"

My imagination is far more creative than every word in the bible. It's so obvious that is was written by superstitious nutters trying to make sense of the crazy world around them.

Adam and Eve LOL
Stupid nonsensical story about God making mistakes.

Noah LOL
Stupid nonsenical story about God regretting his mistakes and compounding those errors with even more mistakes.

Jonah and the whale LOL
Where to start ?

Bable LOL
God geting miffed at his mistakes continuing to annoy him so then pettily makes them talk different languages... whens the amendment to what he's gonna do about all these different lanuages building a space station ?

Soddom and Gammorah LOL
Here rape some daughters not angels !!!

Everything in acts LOL
Some fool thinks he see's god and goes onto write about him for far too many books. If you believe this you may as well also be a mormon, many a clown has believed they speak for God. Why do you believe this one his claims are no less idiotic.


Want me to go on ? If you were to come across the bible and read it on your own without some loony telling you what it means it would be consigned to the bin as a third rate read at best. I might keep it in the loo so I can dip in and out everynow and then for a few laughs.

AND YOU FOLLOW IT !!!:hammer:

See what I mean Flipper. It is typical of the positive atheist and the Richard Dawkins crowd.

Some people play the race card when incapable of discussion and the positive atheist plays the "yo momma sucks" card.

It is impossible to get past square one with all this card playing going on.

 

[Skavau]

The positive atheist feels superior to the believer. What good is feeling superior if you can't demonstrate it through attacks on believers regardless of how misguided the attacks?

What good is believing in denial if you can't express the imagined superiority of denial? But that isn't to say deniers do not have a need for belief.

Atheists still believe in things.

Just not God. Why is the definition of atheism just so hard for people to understand?

 

[Skavau]

Huh. I see... but it seems to me that atheists take up an unnecessary burden then... what use is there in "saving" another when you've no hope of life yourself?

Btw, nice to meet you . Name's Dave.

Who says that atheists hold no hope of and for life?

 

[Town Heretic]

Who says that atheists hold no hope of and for life?

:think: Rationalists?

Not sure what hope of life would look like though. Maybe viewing a still body from a great distance?

 

[Skavau]

What you say is not irrelevant, only devoid of any foundation that would make what you say genuinely meaningful, other than to showcase what I have been saying all along. So, yes, there's that.

You keep insisting that what I say is to showcase your points but everytime I actually ask you what part of my posts you are talking about, you merely come up with this playschool answer of "everything!"

Reading the content of your posts and the tired canards you are tossing about, I suspect you are a relatively new non-believer or else a very inept one.

What would an 'inept' non-believer be? Anyway, I've never been a christian or theist in general.

With time and practice you may perfect the insidiousness craft of your ilk to the level that some among the faithful will actually count you as charming and entertaining. But for the time being you are just a screaming child in the room where grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.

And where have I screamed? You choose to insinuate petulance on my part and yet you are the only person to have directly stated that what I say to you is irrelevant. It would matter not if I posted my full life philosophy, my full ideology, for you would have to contend as a matter of consistency that everything you need to know and do know about me is already penned in the Bible.

So ultimately, it cannot matter (to you) what I say. So don't pretend otherwise.

 

[Skavau]

:think: Rationalists?

Not sure what hope of life would look like though. Maybe viewing a still body from a great distance?

Holding hope for life does not demand a belief in an afterlife. People can hold hope for the future of humanity, and the future of their loved ones after they pass on.

 

[Town Heretic]

Holding hope for life does not demand a belief in an afterlife. People can hold hope for the future of humanity, and the future of their loved ones after they pass on.

You can hold your wedding reception in a McDonald's, but the food is going to be lousy.

As to the rationality of holding out some vague hope for people next in line for the abyss...I suppose it beats disco, but not by much.

:e4e:

 

[ex nihilo]

You can hold your wedding reception in a McDonald's, but the food is going to be lousy.

As to the rationality of holding out some vague hope for people next in line for the abyss...I suppose it beats disco, but not by much.

:e4e:

HA! I love you man.

 

[El DLo]

I'm answering this from a personal perspective (being an Atheist myself). As an atheist, I do not believe in religion or God (obviously), but just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean I'm willing to discredit someone else's beliefs when they're just as unprovable as my own (particularly in how the universe started). While I don't think this qualifies me as agnostic (because I truly don't believe in God), I still value and want to know what others believe.

I'm sure this rings true for most Atheists on here that, while the intelligent debate makes for some good fun, the ideal of understanding someone else's believe systems are important to being an open-minded person, and when it comes to religion, I want to know as much as I can about other people's beliefs before I feel that I have a right to assert my own (and I don't, unless challenged), because everyone's entitled to believe what they want, I just like to know what it is that makes them believe it.