toldailytopic: What do you think of certain cold medicines having to be purchased at

noguru

Well-known member
I'm not left. I'm closer to the middle. I just want to be realistic here. I'm not even anti death penalty, I just think it's pointless going on and on about it as a solution when practically speaking it just isn't going to happen.

Do you now know that life would be really boring if we did not sensationalize it just a little?

At any rate, I don't think such Draconian measures would be desirable despite the fact that they may appear to be successful by simply eliminating all the fringe elements of society. However, one does have to ask themselves how far we are going to let people go that repeatedly engage in such obviously destructive behavior.
 

noguru

Well-known member
Well, no... law abiding citizens are experiencing mild inconvenience.

If I had a real bad allergy attack and had to wait in line for a bunch of meth users to purchase their monthly quota, it would be a lot more than a minor convenience. But thanks for being concerned about others.
 

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
I just love it when knee jerk right meets knee jerk left.

You guys would never decide on anything effective if it were not for the middle, and then blame the other side for the failure.

:shut:
:chuckle:

I'm not left. I'm closer to the middle. I just want to be realistic here. I'm not even anti death penalty, I just think it's pointless going on and on about it as a solution when practically speaking it just isn't going to happen.
And I'm just pointing out why one solution even you admit would be effective is considered pointless. I think that's kind of important. :idunno:
 

Memento Mori

New member
Lets see.... I can't buy a decongestant at the grocery store unless I show my Driver's license, yet I can vote for the President of the United States without any identification whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. :doh:

Take advantage of your constitutional rights

Obtain a drug with the potential to develop meth

Also, meth is quickly becoming one of the most sought after drugs in the US and living in the meth capital of the US, I'm willing to accept an inconvenience in line over the sniffles.

Cite
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Suggesting execution is just silly. I mean... it isn't going to happen. Flat out won't happen. To the extent where it's a completely pointless hypothetical suggestion. Killing all meth producers and drug users would indeed reduce the illegal drug market... but it just is never going to happen. So let's try to stick with reality, and what we can actually do to reduce illegal drug production/use.
I can remember my father, my grandfather, and my great-grandfather say, "It won't ever happen", ...... and it did.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
had to wait in line for a bunch of meth users to purchase their monthly quota,
Ya know, that's what I saw happen in a movie.
The ones making and selling meth would just have all their customers go in and buy up the medicine in stores.

The point ....

The meth dealers were not hindered from having the medicine at all.
All it did was cause longer lines at the counter.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Also, meth is quickly becoming one of the most sought after drugs in the US and living in the meth capital of the US, I'm willing to accept an inconvenience in line over the sniffles.
Stop and think about what you just typed.

You state correctly that METH is becoming bigger and bigger problem.

Yet then you state you are willing to be inconvenienced to buy Pseudoephedrine. Yet, if the inconvenience were effective in any way whatsoever shouldn't it be positively effecting the growth in the meth problem?? After all, they have been required this control of Pseudoephedrine for many years now.

This is just one more example of a "feel good" law that doesn't help in the least but people support it because they think they should. Who cares if it works or not, it feels good dammit!!!
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I can remember my father, my grandfather, and my great-grandfather say, "It won't ever happen", ...... and it did.
Uh, uh, uh... STOP that line of thought!! We are only allowed to ponder solutions to problems that Layla believes are likely to happen.

:doh:
 

noguru

Well-known member
Ya know, that's what I saw happen in a movie.
The ones making and selling meth would just have all their customers go in and buy up the medicine in stores.

The point ....

The meth dealers were not hindered from having the medicine at all.
All it did was cause longer lines at the counter.

Yup, why should I have a monthly limit, possibly have to get a prescription if that is not enough and/or wait in long lines. Because a bunch of idiot wants to stay awake for days, not eat, have their teeth fall out, and suffer from chemically induced delusions of grandeur.
 

noguru

Well-known member
Stop and think about what you just typed.

You state correctly that METH is becoming bigger and bigger problem.

Yet then you state you are willing to be inconvenienced to buy Pseudoephedrine. Yet, if the inconvenience were effective in any way whatsoever shouldn't it be positively effecting the growth in the meth problem?? After all, they have been required this control of Pseudoephedrine for many years now.

This is just one more example of a "feel good" law that doesn't help in the least but people support it because they think they should. Who cares if it works or not, it feels good dammit!!!

The truth of your statement could not be more obvious.

The law in reality is simply strengthening the ties between the network of illegal manufacturers and their network(s) of users.
 

Thunder's Muse

Well-known member
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 23rd, 2012 12:26 PM


toldailytopic: What do you think of certain cold medicines having to be purchased at the pharmacy rather than over the counter due growing drug problems?






Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.




It's been like that for years here in Australia. I even have to go to the chemist to get Children's Panadol...
 

Memento Mori

New member
Stop and think about what you just typed.

You state correctly that METH is becoming bigger and bigger problem.

Yet then you state you are willing to be inconvenienced to buy Pseudoephedrine. Yet, if the inconvenience were effective in any way whatsoever shouldn't it be positively effecting the growth in the meth problem?? After all, they have been required this control of Pseudoephedrine for many years now.

This is just one more example of a "feel good" law that doesn't help in the least but people support it because they think they should. Who cares if it works or not, it feels good dammit!!!

Seizure of meth labs by year

Note the dip in 2005.

The initial laws worked but criminals always find a way.

While these can help the best way to decrease drug use is demand-side reduction rather than supply side.

But you also need to understand the production of meth. These ingredients are only produced by a handful of companies world wide. Thus the production could be controlled by intervening and limiting the sale of the bulk product to prevent it falling into the hands of large drug cookeries rather and local small meth kitchens. This is (part of) why the government seeks to limit on the supply side because it seems easier, is somewhat cheaper, and much more flashy. (The government also has a history of using supply side reduction with other drugs. So they're more of doing what comes naturally.)

Also, just out of curiosity, how dangerous do you think meth is? (Scale of 1-10, 10 being the most destructive thing ever)
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
Lets see.... I can't buy a decongestant at the grocery store unless I show my Driver's license, yet I can vote for the President of the United States without any identification whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. :doh:

Exactly! :thumb:
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
Stop and think about what you just typed.

This is just one more example of a "feel good" law that doesn't help in the least but people support it because they think they should. Who cares if it works or not, it feels good dammit!!!

:chuckle:
 

noguru

Well-known member
Seizure of meth labs by year

Note the dip in 2005.

The initial laws worked but criminals always find a way.

While these can help the best way to decrease drug use is demand-side reduction rather than supply side.

From what I know about meth the recovery percentage is about the same as heroin, if not less. I think we will probably never completely eliminate demand, nor reduce use significantly from the current measures.

The thing that makes meth so attractive to some people is that it is cheaper and lasts much longer than cocaine. Much of the current increase in meth usage is people switching over from cocaine. At any rate, I do not think we should be relying on decreasing the demand so much as enacting policy that is more precisely focused on addressing the people who are the problem and not making the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops waiting for them all to stop using of their own accord.

But you also need to understand the production of meth. These ingredients are only produced by a handful of companies world wide. Thus the production could be controlled by intervening and limiting the sale of the bulk product to prevent it falling into the hands of large drug cookeries rather and local small meth kitchens. This is (part of) why the government seeks to limit on the supply side because it seems easier, is somewhat cheaper, and much more flashy. (The government also has a history of using supply side reduction with other drugs. So they're more of doing what comes naturally.)

If we muck with the supply in such a manner, we will also be increasing the price for the legal medication. Why should the price of decongestants go up, simply because of the use of the chemical in illegal manufacture?

Also, just out of curiosity, how dangerous do you think meth is? (Scale of 1-10, 10 being the most destructive thing ever)

I'd say 9 - 10.
 

Memento Mori

New member
From what I know about meth the recovery percentage is about the same as heroin, if not less. I think we will probably never completely eliminate demand, nor reduce use significantly from the current measures.

From my recollection, the effects and potential recovery depended greatly on purity. Also, introduction and recurrent use were dependent greatly on purity. This was mimicked in the amount of use versus purity measures for that year. I really wish I could find that graph. I'll have to ask my professor to see if she has it.

The thing that makes meth so attractive to some people is that it is cheaper and lasts much longer than cocaine. Much of the current increase in meth usage is people switching over from cocaine. At any rate, I do not think we should be relying on decreasing the demand so much as enacting policy that is more precisely focused on addressing the people who are the problem and not making the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops waiting for them all to stop using of their own accord.

Crack cocaine or cocaine? These tended to be used along social guide lines with cocaine being a middle to upper class drug and crack being a lower class drug, in general. Anyways...

The problem is how? The current model is all about supply-side. And you've only got two choices when it comes to the matter. (I'll also mention the Balloon model of drug use, as you "squeeze on one end the other inflates.") So if you go after the dealers you're going to affect the average citizen in some way. Because data is required to identify those who may be engaged in the production and distribution. The easiest and most obvious way is to gather information on who is buying the raw material.

Or, you can institute social programs like detox, rehab, counter-active drugs, etc. But these also have a negative connotation with the general public. As it is seen as protecting the user. Just ask anyone about the multitude of European drug rehab programs. Those do tend to work and do help society in the long run but it's contrary to our culture in America.

If we muck with the supply in such a manner, we will also be increasing the price for the legal medication. Why should the price of decongestants go up, simply because of the use of the chemical in illegal manufacture?

Not necessarily. If we track their buyers we can attempt to isolate the larger producers who have set up business fronts in order to produce large amounts meth. These distributors also have a great impact on the distribution and sale of meth and produce underground trafficking of the drug, like cocaine and marijuana. It sheds light and takes advantage of a system already in place.

I'd say 9 - 10.

Agreed. What method do you propose of decreasing sale, production, or distribution of meth?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Really? Wow! I think I can handle the inconvenience.
Good for you.

Yet unlike you... I like to know that the inconveniences that the government impose on me are actually having some type of positive effect. Frankly I prefer to skip the "feel good" crap that is a pure waste of time.
 
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