keypurr
Well-known member
WRONG, go back and study the dictionary.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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WRONG, go back and study the dictionary.
6days
New member
Jesus did accept worship in Scripture. He will accept worship from you also.
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. We can worship Him declaring "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever."
Jesus never stated, NOT ONCE, that He was not God.
Now, I'm not making that as a point for Him being God, but as a rejection of the claim that Jesus said He was not God. It's not in Scripture, so don't lie about what Jesus said or did not say. Don't try to defend what is not in Scripture.
popsthebuilder
New member
But why say "divine person" at all? Does that not add to the confusion? Why not divine spirit? Isnt it stated plainly that GOD is spirit?Nope....not different....distinct, and not separate.....always One.
You understand that a divine person (God) created a person (man) in His own image, right?
When you're talking about the nature of God and the nature of man, you are bound to have overlapping terms. ... (body, soul, and spirit, for instance). You see all the confusion that has produced right here on TOL. God is a Divine person, and man is a human person. The Divine person is triune, and the human person is triune. Hopefully, man understands that God is far and away superior to the man God created. At least some do.
What is 'spirit'?
marhig
Well-known member
Hi pops, no we're not the Spirit of God. We have our own Spirit. (In that our body is a vessel that houses our Spirit). But we are dead to God until we are born of God, until the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts.
I believe that Jesus also has his own Spirit which is the Christ but he was born of God in the womb. So the Holy Spirit was with him always, and he waxed strong in Spirit as a child, but I don't see Jesus as being the father come as the Son, but the Spirit of the Son come in flesh and the Holy Spirit was with him. Where as I believe that we don't receive the Holy Spirit until we believe Jesus and in the gospel that he preached, repent, and are ready to turn from sin, lay down our lives, to live by the will of God, and once we receive the Spirit, God blesses us and we are then born of God.
But I don't believe that the Spirit of Jesus is the Spirit of the Father come as the Son. But rather they are separate Spirits as is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was always with Jesus. But the father is God and father of all.
So what I'm basically wondering is, do you believe like GT that Jesus is the father? I'm not getting at you pops, I am really only wondering how you believe compared to me, because I do see many other things in God the same way as you do. And I have been told a few times that you don't believe as I do, yet from what you say, I see that we believe very much alike. So I'm wondering how you do see it. If you prefer to talk to me privately them please do PM me. Thank you.
popsthebuilder
New member
To put it as flatly as possible;
I believe the Spirit of Christ is now, at this time with the spirit of GOD which I believe to also be the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that the physical temporal man Jesus was the fullness of the eternal god as man, but that He was wholly of GOD. Finally; though I see a point in not equating man to GOD; I do equate the Christ,(the Spirit of GOD that works through us and sustains us and that we were created through, and also the spirit that filled the temple that was the man Jesus) in spirit, to GOD, as can be known by man.
Begotten isn't ever synonymous with that which begat.
The Holy Spirit is eternal, and that which all exists through as far as I am tell.
popsthebuilder
New member
glorydaz
Well-known member
Better to believe what is written in the Bible....all of it, not just select verses that speak of the humanity of the LORD Jesus Christ.
The LORD our God is ONE LORD. Think about it, Keypurr. It's as clear as the nose on your face.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Does He love? Does He think and reason? Has He a personality or merely like the wind that blows randomly across the land?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Gobble-de-gook. Words without meaning. Where is the Scripture to support the words you toss out like confetti? :chew:
marhig
Well-known member
Ok, I see Christ to be a part of the Holy Spirit. In other words he is made manifest to us through the Holy Spirit, but I don't believe he is the father or that only he is the the only Holy Spirit. But rather there is the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are one in love and nature, and we are at one with them once we are truly born of God and living by his will.
But I don't believe that Jesus the man or his Spirit which is Christ is God, but is of God. He comes from God. And speaks only what the father gives him to speak thus the word of God was made flesh through Jesus Christ, and the word that he speaks is God and is given to him from the father, as Jesus himself says his words are not his, but his father's who sent him. And Jesus didn't live by his will, and he denied the flesh, he denied satan and this world right up until his last breath and he overcame him completely and only lived by the will of the father and by the commandments given to him from the father, and spoke only what was given him to speak. So he isn't the father, and according to Jesus, the Father is his God and father also.
If Jesus grew Stronger in the Spirit as a child then how can he be the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit was always with him, that's what I believe anyway. And he can't be the father as he lived by his father's will and obeyed the commandments of the Father. That's how I see it written in the bible.
Anyway thanks for taking that time to explain what you mean.
You say Jesus was not a man.
Jesus said He was the Son of God.
He also said His Father was greater than Himself.
He also said there is only one good and that it was not Him.
He also said His Father is the only true God.
Scripture continually states Jesus is a man, the first born of many brethren.
LA
The filling of the Holy Spirit was subsequent to His being filled with Gods Word over the period of His 30 years with attendant struggles in/from the world--
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
His spirit (from man) was pure at birth, untainted by the iniquities of man because His Father was God-
All other men are born in sin so to speak, depending on the lives of their ancestors to various degrees--
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Yes.
Yes.
LA
I never said you didn't answer. I said you didn't answer directly, which you didn't. All three of those questions should have one syllable answers but you can't do that. Not because the questions were complex but because of your convoluted doctrine.
That is not relevant! If Jesus wasn't God then He didn't deserve worship - period! Jesus Himself said so! An argument I've already made and a verse I've already quoted!
Why do you just repeat yourself instead of responding to the arguments I've made? Why is this website worth giving the time of day too if all you're interested in is repeating the same irrelevant crap that you've already said while ignoring when someone has made an argument?
I am going to die of boredom!
Asked and answered - in more than one thread, no less!
Did you read my post or did you just hit the quote button?
Is this really all you've got?
This thread is over fifteen thousand posts long and this is the best that you can do in response to someone who has destroyed your entire theological construct by asking you three simple questions and demonstrating that they directly contradict the words of Jesus Himself. Fifteen thousand posts populated with this mindlessly idiotic drivel?! Just how much time do you have to waste?
I don't quote "the church" or anything theology book nor do I make any other sort of unbiblical argument. I don't even make commentary about what the bible verses I quote mean. I simply quote the exact words you said and then directly quote the bible and compare the two. You then ignore that entirely and simply repeat yourself like a mindless idiot.
Why on Earth do you even come here? Who is it that you're trying to convince? You act like the doctrine with which you disagree are self-evidently unbiblical and the result of some intra-church, Satan inspired conspiracy but you offer next to nothing as evidence - never mind proof. And when what modicum of an argument you do make is refuted, you ignore it and start repeating yourself as though no argument has been made and talking down your nose at people as though you're better than they are because you don't worship the Incarnate Creator as the God He is.
Look, if you want to respond directly to the arguments I made then I'll continue. Otherwise, you're wasting my time.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Fixed that for you. Let's not misrepresent Scripture, and then twist it for our own argument's sake, shall we?
The verses all of those claims come from are not problem-texts for Trinitarians. They fit within our theology. Doesn't that tell you something?
Either way, you missed my point, which is that Keypurr's argument that "Jesus said He was not God" is false.
In fact, Jesus claimed the exact opposite, which has been explained before many times.
Saying otherwise has you making Jesus out to be a liar.
Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic, or LORD. There are no other possibilities. And I'm pretty sure He's not a liar or a lunatic.
popsthebuilder
New member
God loves per scripture and logic.
As far as having to think and reason; GOD is omnipotent.
Random is a human construct.
John: 3. 2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
God's Truth
New member
You are not speaking the truth. Jesus was a Man.
God's Truth
New member
Pops,
LA believes that Jesus a mere Man, not God, became God.
LA denies that Jesus came from heaven.
Jesus did come from heaven and was already God in heaven who came as a Man in the flesh.