God's Truth
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I believe there are three, but I do not believe in the trinity doctrine.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I believe there are three, but I do not believe in the trinity doctrine.
marhig
Well-known member
also @GT What about the things that you've been saying about me that aren't true, being a liar and dishonest for a start? Are you doing the works of Satan too?
God's Truth
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Just listen to yourself. Where did I say I was Jesus?
God's Truth
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I don't say the word liar, but you have definitely been dishonest. You are still doing the work of Satan. You just couldn't stand it that pops and I were discussing the topic of the thread and were getting along.
marhig
Well-known member
You referred to Jesus saying get behind me Satan, so what do you mean by that? Jesus did that because Satan in Peter was trying to get him not to go through what was set before him. Not because Jesus' pride was dented!
Why did you bring up that scripture?
God's Truth
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Are you admitting then that they are EXACTLY the same?
If not, how many King of kings are there? How many Lord of lords are there?
marhig
Well-known member
What? Not at all, if you agree then so be it. It's you calling people workers of Satan one minute and then all over them when they agree with you. You fly hot and cold
I don't agree with you in some things, but I wouldn't call you a worker of Satan.
Those doing the works of Satan, (and I don't think they many realise that they are.) Are those who fall for his lies, trying to turn us from God and also saying that we can sin and be ok. No we can't and we have to live by the will of God.
marhig
Well-known member
No I'm not, the father is above Christ, the head of Christ is God!
And Christ is in subjection to the father.
God's Truth
New member
Popsthebuilder falsely judged me, as he has done before. I have asked him kindly to stop, but he continued to falsely judge me. I called him a worker for Satan because Satan is the accuser.
When Peter said something false, Jesus said to him get behind me Satan. You are bewildered that I could tell pops that he was doing Satan's will by falsely judging me but then when he stops doing it you want me to keep saying it to him. That is unreasonable. Jesus is the example, and you are going against that example.
marhig
Well-known member
Falsely judge you? In what way?
I'll have to leave these with you, I've got things to do.
God's Truth
New member
So how then is it that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords yet different from God the Father? That is what you say. So explain how someone I say is exactly the same is not according to you.
God's Truth
New member
I am not going to let you keep slandering me. Stop talking about me now. This thread is about the trinity, and not about you getting to rant on about me.
Rosenritter
New member
Jamie? I'm Mary
Anyway, yes Harrison ford is Indiana Jones, but Indiana Jones doesn't call himself "we" and "our"
Jesus isn't the father.
0. Ah, sorry about that. I had asked that of Jamie in a different forum.
1. I infer that you would also say that Han Solo is Harrison Ford.
2. I see your answer above, Harrison Ford is Indiana Jones
But Question 3 is where I was going with this.
3. Is Indiana Jones is Han Solo? Both of them are Harrison Ford, but is one the same as the other?
You could have one being, yet "we" or "our" might be dependent (or appropriate) depending on the frame of reference being used. I don't mean the "royal we" in this case, where one person speaks in the plural because they reign over others. I mean specifically because of the unique situation described in the gospel where Jesus (whom is called God in multiple places, and in Revelation identifies himself by the unique names of God) ...
It says that his own knew him not. We know that he had to go to the cross (and he rebuked Peter for offering to prevent it) and how would this have happened if Jesus had displayed the power that he had, or summoned even one of his legions of angels? Given that in the gospel context Jesus was willing to allow people to make their own conclusions and speak with indirection, the pronouns may be confusing.
There is a principal however, that one is always allowed to down-state their rank and position, but never to increase it beyond its actual level. Jesus does not deny being a prophet, because he is that and more. Jesus does not deny being the Messiah, because he is that and more. Jesus does not deny being the Son of God, because he is that and more. Jesus did not deny being God, he accepted worship and the confession of Thomas. and come the book of Revelation, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ reveals himself as God, using titles that would be blasphemy for any other to assume.
I was using the Harrison Ford example to illustrate a communication slip that I was sensing. Jesus is not the Father, the Father is not Jesus, in a matter of speaking. These distinctions don't appear until the New Testament because there was no reason for them yet in the Old. We didn't call the creator "The Father" but rather YHWH (Jehovah). The New Testament tells us that the name of the Creator is Jesus.
Rosenritter
New member
Because it became absurd attempting to respond to her name. The actual truth of God (God's Truth) is pure and of peaceful spirit. When she started saying "You speak against God's Truth" and using the label for both herself and the Divine at the same time I got fed up with the borderline blasphemy. GE stands for "Great Ego" so as not to get confused with the real thing.
Before that I would always have to abbreviate her name to GT to avoid blasphemy. It's not because I'm a slow or lazy typist. So now it's GE.
God's Truth
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God was called the Father in the the Old Testament.
Rosenritter
New member
Glory, that's a valid point. The reason to practice civility or turn the other cheek or to forgive seventy times seven isn't because we know the hearts of men, but because God asked us to.
Assuming you equate Jesus with God, that is. If you don't accept that, then at least do it for Jesus.
Where, Book, Chapter and Verse.
God's Truth
New member
Fatherhood of God in the Old Testament.
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.
Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?
Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father
Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?
Isaiah 63:16 But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
God is called the Father of Israel, Isaiah 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; Malachi 1:6 ; 2:10, and the Father of certain individuals, 2 Samuel, 1 Chronicles 17:13, 22:10, Psalm 89:26.
Read these scriptures, they are prophecies about Jesus:
2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands.
1 Chronicles 17:13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor.
1 Chronicles 22:10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'
Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, 'You are my Faher, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
Sometimes the Father image is present, although the term 'Father' was not used.
Exodus 4:22-23 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"
Jeremiah 31:20 Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD.
Hosea 11:1-4 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Isaiah 64:8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.
Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?
Throughout the Bible we read that God is the Father
Deuteronomy 32:6 Is this the way you repay the LORD, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?
Isaiah 63:16 But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
God is called the Father of Israel, Isaiah 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; Malachi 1:6 ; 2:10, and the Father of certain individuals, 2 Samuel, 1 Chronicles 17:13, 22:10, Psalm 89:26.
Read these scriptures, they are prophecies about Jesus:
2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands.
1 Chronicles 17:13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor.
1 Chronicles 22:10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'
Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, 'You are my Faher, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
Sometimes the Father image is present, although the term 'Father' was not used.
Exodus 4:22-23 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"
Jeremiah 31:20 Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD.
Hosea 11:1-4 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Rosenritter
New member
If they are ultimately the same, then how could the Father leave him? And how could he possibly displease the Father?
You just said that the Father never leaves him.
Because "these words are mine and not the Father's" would have the opposite meaning.
Rev 3:21 KJV
(21) To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Even the grammar of this passage lends some support to equality and sameness. Whose throne is it? "My throne" yet this is equated to "his throne" in the second half of the passage. Note that this never becomes "our throne." We inherit "thrones" (Revelation 20:4) but that throne always remains his. One throne, belongs to Jesus. Also belongs to the Father. Makes more sense when you recognize those as the same.
But why use this type of reference? Because he is still speaking from the sense of when he was on the earth, from when we last knew him.
If Jesus could do things without the Father, that would be consistent with him being a DIFFERENT person.
The Father is greater than him in the sense that the Father is in heaven with unlimited power and omniscience. Jesus was God, manifested in the flesh, and though he created the worlds and all that are in it, he came unto his own, took upon himself the nature of men, with limited power and presence. This limitation of power and awareness and glory was for a limited time. Afterwards, it said that he ascended to the Father, he received all power and authority, he would be restored to the glory that he had with the Father... so "greater" was within a limited time frame. .
Those are just off the top of my head, I can find many more verses that clearly show us that Jesus isn't the father![/QUOTE]
I could show many reasons why Indiana Jones isn't Han Solo. I could also prove that Harrison Ford is (or at least was) neither one of them, if I am allowed to pick the time frame (of his life) of my choosing. If you were to change your statement to "Jesus was not the Father" I might agree after a fashion.
You're looking at the wrong question. The right question is "Is Jesus our God?"
Thanks