He was not called God though.
That is not my point. My point is that Jesus is Christ, that Jesus and Christ are not two different people, with one coming into the picture later. Jesus is called Christ before his birth because they are one and the same person.[/quote]
I apologize for not seeing this post friend.Here is the English version (from the NKJV):
*Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, *and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. *And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. *Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! *But why is this granted to me, that the mother of [RED]my Lord[/RED should come to me? *For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. *Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from [RED]the Lord[/RED].”*And Mary said:“My soul magnifies [RED]the Lord[/RED],*And my spirit has rejoiced in
God my Savior.*For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.*For He who is mighty has done great things for me,And holy is His name.*And His mercy is on those who fear HimFrom generation to generation.*He has shown strength with His arm;He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.*He has put down the mighty from their thrones,And exalted the lowly.*He has filled the hungry with good things,And the rich He has sent away empty.*He has helped His servant Israel,In remembrance of His mercy,*As He spoke to our fathers,To Abraham and to his seed forever.”*And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house. - Luke 1:39-56
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:39-56&version=NKJV[/QUOTE]
I do not trust this against the Aramaic.
And here is the Greek interlinear (and just a side note, I don't use Aramaic version because it is not what the New Testament was originally written in, it was written in Greek, therefore, that is the standard that I and almost every scholar uses for translating purposes, not the Aramaic):
*In en those houtos days h?mera Mary Mariam arose anist?mi · de · ho and went poreu? into eis the ho hill oreinos country with meta eagerness spoud?, to eis a town polis in Judah Ioudas, *and kai she entered eiserchomai into eis the ho house oikos of Zechariah Zacharias. · kai She greeted aspazomai · ho Elizabeth Elisabet, *and kai when h?s Elizabeth Elisabet heard akou? the ho greeting aspasmos of ho Mary Maria, · ho the ho baby brephos leaped skirta? in en · ho her autos womb koilia. · kai Elizabeth Elisabet was filled pimpl?mi with the Holy hagios Spirit pneuma, · ho*and kai exclaimed anaph?ne? with a loud megas cry kraug?, · kai saying leg?, “ Blessed euloge? are you sy among en women gyn?, and kai blessed euloge? is the ho fruit karpos of ho your sy womb koilia! *And kai why pothen should this houtos happen to me eg? that hina the ho mother m?t?r of ho [RED]my eg? Lord kyrios[/RED] should come erchomai to pros me eg?? *For gar behold idou, as h?s the ho sound ph?n? of ho your sy greeting aspasmos came ginomai into eis · ho my eg? ear ous, the ho baby brephos in en my eg? womb koilia leaped skirta? for en joy agalliasis. · ho*· kai Blessed makarios is she ho who believed pisteu? that hoti there would be eimi a fulfillment telei?sis of what ho was spoken lale? to her autos from para [RED]the Lord kyrios[/RED].” *And kai Mary Mariam said leg?, “ My eg? soul psych? magnifies megalyn? · [RED]ho the ho Lord kyrios[/RED], *and kai my eg? spirit pneuma rejoices agallia? · ho because epi of ho
God theos · ho my eg? Savior s?t?r, *for hoti he has looked epiblep? on epi the ho humble tapein?sis estate of ho his autos maidservant doul?. For gar behold idou, from apo · ho now nyn on all pas generations genea will declare makariz? me eg? blessed , · ho*because hoti the ho Almighty dynatos has done poie? great things megas for me eg?. · kai His autos name onoma is holy hagios, · ho*and kai · ho his autos mercy eleos extends to those ho who fear phobeomai him autos, from eis generation genea to kai generation genea. *“ He has displayed poie? might kratos with en his autos arm brachi?n; he has scattered diaskorpiz? those who are proud hyper?phanos in the thoughts dianoia of their autos hearts kardia. *He has brought kathaire? down rulers dynast?s from apo their thrones thronos and kai exalted hypso? those of humble tapeinos position . *He has filled empipl?mi the hungry peina? with good agathos things , but kai the rich ploute? he has sent exapostell? away empty kenos. *He has helped antilamban? his autos servant pais Israel Isra?l, remembering mimn?skomai his mercy eleos, *as kath?s he spoke lale? to pros · ho our h?meis fathers pat?r, to ho Abraham Abraam and kai · ho his autos descendants sperma for eis all ho time ai?n.” *Mary Mariam remained men? · de with syn her autos about h?s three treis months m?n and kai returned hypostreph? to eis · ho her autos home oikos. - Luke 1:39-56
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:39-56&version=MOUNCE
The m/s were in Hebrew and Aramaic, not Greek. That is debated among scholars from what I have read, but I admit I am no expert.
Jesus is Lord.
God is Lord.
There is only one Lord. (Eph. 4:4-6 same word used for Lord as in the passage above, talking about the same Spirit.)
ERGO Jesus is God.
There are many Lords mention in scripture but only ONE GOD.
I'm really surprised you don't, because it's the story of the events prior to our Savior's birth. Don't you think that that's kind of important to remember?
I provided it above in my previous comment, and again in this comment so that you can read it.[/QUOTE]
You only provided your assumptions of what you have read.
*But kai the ho angel angelos said leg? to them autos, “ Do not m? be afraid phobeomai; for gar behold idou, I announce euangeliz? to you hymeis good news of a great megas joy chara which hostis will be eimi for all pas the ho people laos, *because hoti this very day s?meron there has been born tikt? to you hymeis, in en the city polis of David Dauid, a savior s?t?r
who hos is eimi Messiah Christos, the Lord kyrios. - Luke 2:10-11
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:10-11&version=MOUNCE
The
original Greek NT had it. That means that any version that does not have it removed it.
Much has been altered in scripture. Being the saviour does not make him the Christ. That makes him the Lamb of God, not God.
Jesus is God's salvation. That makes him by default a Savior. There is only one Savior, who is Christ the Lord. There is only one Lord, and that is God, there is only one Savior, and that is God, ergo, Jesus is God. (see the verses above)
Paul says that we have ONE GOD and one Lord, two beings.
And you apparently didn't read and compare the scriptures I provided.
As I said above, the original New Testament was written in Greek, but even so, the Aramaic English version also says that the Miltha (aka the "Word" of the original Greek text) was with God and the Miltha was God.
And yet, none of that goes against what I said above, in this post and previous, that the Word was with God, and the Word was God, for all of eternity past.
I have heard this all before JR
No, Keypurr, I'm building on what I said above. Jesus is the Christ (even before his annointing by the Magi) and He is Immanuel, literally "God with us."
We disagee.
No, he became flesh when the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's Egg. If there is a scripture verse that says otherwise, please share it here for all to see, because I am not aware of any.
Disagree
The Holy Spirit is a person, and He is NOT the Logos.
I agree that the Holy Spirit is not the logos. The logos is the express image of the Father, the SPIRIT Son of God.
*Now de when en · ho all hapas the ho people laos had been baptized baptiz?, and kai when Jesus I?sous was baptized baptiz? and kai was praying proseuchomai, the ho heavens ouranos were opened anoig?, *and kai [RED]the ho Holy hagios Spirit pneuma[/RED] descended katabain? · ho on epi him autos in bodily s?matikos form eidos, like h?s a dove peristera; and kai a voice ph?n? came ginomai from ek heaven ouranos, “ You sy are eimi · ho my eg? Son hyios, the ho Beloved agap?tos; with en you sy I am well pleased eudoke?.” - Luke 3:21-22
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke3:21-22&version=MOUNCE
As I've said before, here and in other threads, CONTEXT is always important. It also helps to have the original text available to compare with our theology and understanding:
*So oun if ei there is any tis encouragement parakl?sis in en Christ Christos, if ei any tis comfort paramythion from love agap?, if ei any tis fellowship koin?nia in the Spirit pneuma, if ei any tis affection splanchnon and kai compassion oiktirmos, *make pl?ro? my eg? · ho joy chara complete by hina · ho being like-minded autos, having ech? the ho same autos love agap?, united sympsychos in spirit , with a ho single heis purpose phrone?. *Do nothing m?deis out kata of selfish ambition eritheia or m?de vain conceit kenodoxia, but alla in ho humility tapeinophrosyn? consider h?geomai others all?l?n more important hyperech? than yourselves heautou. *Each person hekastos should look out skope? not m? only for his own heautou interests ho, but alla also kai for the ho interests of others heteros.
*Your hymeis attitude phrone? toward one another should be the same houtos as kai that hos of en Christ Christos Jesus I?sous, *who hos, although he was hyparch? in en the form morph? of God theos, did h?geomai not ou regard h?geomai equality isos with God theos a thing to be eimi grasped harpagmos, *but alla emptied keno? himself heautou, taking on lamban? the form morph? of a servant, being born ginomai in en the likeness homoi?ma of man anthr?pos. And kai being found heurisk? in appearance sch?ma as h?s a man anthr?pos*he humbled tapeino? himself heautou, becoming ginomai obedient hyp?koos to the point mechri of death thanatos, even de death thanatos on a cross stauros! *Therefore dio · kai · ho God theos has highly exalted hyperypso? him autos and kai bestowed charizomai on him autos the ho name onoma that ho is above hyper every pas name onoma, *so that hina at en the ho name onoma of Jesus I?sous every pas knee gony should bow kampt?, in heaven epouranios, and kai on earth epigeios and kai under the earth katachthonios, *and kai every pas tongue gl?ssa confess exomologeomai that hoti Jesus I?sous Christ Christos is Lord kyrios, to eis the glory doxa of God theos the Father pat?r. - Philippians 2:1-11
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:1-11&version=MOUNCE
Here is the specific portion that you provided, in English, with the interlinear Greek text (or is it Greek with interlinear English? :think
.
*Your hymeis attitude phrone? toward one another should be the same houtos as kai that hos of en Christ Christos Jesus I?sous, *who hos, although he was hyparch? in en the form morph? of God theos, did h?geomai not ou regard h?geomai equality isos with God theos a thing to be eimi grasped harpagmos, *but alla emptied keno? himself heautou, taking on lamban? the form morph? of a servant, being born ginomai in en the likeness homoi?ma of man anthr?pos. And kai being found heurisk? in appearance sch?ma as h?s a man anthr?pos - Philippians 2:5-7
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-7&version=MOUNCE
Ponder that for a bit.
"Christ was born in Bethlehem does not make Jesus the Christ at his birth.
Christ equals anointed. He became the Christ when he was anointed with the logos.
Keypurr, overall (iow, as a rule of thumb), throughout the Bible, do the authors write from the perspective of themselves, "after the fact"? or do they write as an observer during the moment they are writing about? Here's a hint: God is the one inspiring them to write down the events.
Also, do you think if something is said almost exactly the same in two different parts of the Bible, that generally, it's probably what was said?
Answer: They are writing as an observer during the events they are writing about.
President Kennedy was born in Boston. Does that men he was President when he was born?
No it does not friend
.
With that in mind, do you really think that the angel that appeared to Joseph did not call Jesus Immanuel?
How does this prove you point?
That Herod did not inquire of the magi "where the Christ is, that I may worship Him" (talking of Jesus)?
I believe they were looking for the King of Israel
Yet Elizabeth calls God in Heaven her Lord almost immediately after calling Jesus in Mary's womb her Lord. If there is only one Lord and Savior, why does she call God her Lord. It's the same word in the Greek. It's also the same word used by Mary in her song that is recorded immediately after Elizabeth says this.
Christ emptied Himself of His power when he made himself of no reputation, coming in the form of a baby in a manger.
You still have yet to reply to the portion I quoted above. Could you do so, please?
And I have much to learn? Keypurr, while I don't deny that there is so much more I can learn about my God, you seem to have unlearned everything about Him, and you've forgotten what He says. If you hadn't, then you would read the following and admit your entire theology is wrong.
Friend my eyes are failing and so is my memory. I hope this post came out the way I want it to.
