The Trinity

[Bright Raven]

How do you come to that conclusion?

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He would only have the x chromosome if I remember my biology correctly.

 

[keypurr]

I would say he got the blood the same way Adam did.

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[Bright Raven]

I would say he got the blood the same way Adam did.

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He didn't have a human father. The characteristics he received were from God, not a human father

 

[JudgeRightly]

[QUOTE name='JudgeRightly" post=4980950][All verses I reference below I have quoted below]
Remember back in Matthew where Jesus (prior to His birth) is called Immanuel?

Remember back in Matthew, where Jesus (after He was born) was called Christ, and Ruler, and King of the Jews?

He was not called God though.[/QUOTE]

That is not my point. My point is that Jesus is Christ, that Jesus and Christ are not two different people, with one coming into the picture later. Jesus is called Christ before his birth because they are one and the same person.

Keep in mind this was written many years later, Past tense calling him Christ for he had not yet been anointed.

Keypurr, overall (iow, as a rule of thumb), throughout the Bible, do the authors write from the perspective of themselves, "after the fact"? or do they write as an observer during the moment they are writing about? Here's a hint: God is the one inspiring them to write down the events.

Also, do you think if something is said almost exactly the same in two different parts of the Bible, that generally, it's probably what was said?

Answer: They are writing as an observer during the events they are writing about.

With that in mind, do you really think that the angel that appeared to Joseph did not call Jesus Immanuel? That Herod did not inquire of the magi "where the Christ is, that I may worship Him" (talking of Jesus)?

Remember back in Matthew, where Jesus was worshipped by the Magi? Worship is defined as "the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity." If Jesus is not God, then He is not a deity, and is not worthy of worship.

Many were worshipped in the OT.

You still have yet to show me where. Book, chapter, and verse(s), please.

Remember back in Matthew where Jesus fulfilled a prophecy made about God's Son? How could anyone but God's Son fulfill that prophecy?

Agree, God's SON was foretold, but that does not make him God.

Again, not my point. My point is that Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

Remember back in Matthew where Jesus and His mother were taken by Joseph into the city of Nazareth, so that Jesus would be called a Nazarene, fulfilling a prophecy about God's Son?

Where does it say in this verse that God's son is God?

See my previous sentence. These are about Jesus (prior to his baptism/annointing) being God's Son. (And not like Adam was God's Son, but God's only begotten Son, the Spirit Son made flesh.

Remember back in Luke, where Jesus is named Son of the Highest, and promised the throne of David, and that He would rule forever and ever over the house of Jacob? Where Jesus is called "Holy One" and "Son of God"?

Where does it say in this verse that God's son is God?

Talk about missing the point...

Remember back in Luke where Elizabeth calls Jesus her Lord, and then two sentences later, she calls God in Heaven her Lord?

Lord and God are not the same.

Yet Elizabeth calls God in Heaven her Lord almost immediately after calling Jesus in Mary's womb her Lord. If there is only one Lord and Savior, why does she call God her Lord. It's the same word in the Greek. It's also the same word used by Mary in her song that is recorded immediately after Elizabeth says this.

Here is the English version (from the NKJV):

*Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, *and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. *And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. *Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! *But why is this granted to me, that the mother of [RED]my Lord[/RED should come to me? *For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. *Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from [RED]the Lord[/RED].”*And Mary said:“My soul magnifies [RED]the Lord[/RED],*And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.*For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.*For He who is mighty has done great things for me,And holy is His name.*And His mercy is on those who fear HimFrom generation to generation.*He has shown strength with His arm;He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.*He has put down the mighty from their thrones,And exalted the lowly.*He has filled the hungry with good things,And the rich He has sent away empty.*He has helped His servant Israel,In remembrance of His mercy,*As He spoke to our fathers,To Abraham and to his seed forever.”*And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house. - Luke 1:39-56 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:39-56&version=NKJV

And here is the Greek interlinear (and just a side note, I don't use Aramaic version because it is not what the New Testament was originally written in, it was written in Greek, therefore, that is the standard that I and almost every scholar uses for translating purposes, not the Aramaic):

*In en those houtos days h?mera Mary Mariam arose anist?mi · de · ho and went poreu? into eis the ho hill oreinos country with meta eagerness spoud?, to eis a town polis in Judah Ioudas, *and kai she entered eiserchomai into eis the ho house oikos of Zechariah Zacharias. · kai She greeted aspazomai · ho Elizabeth Elisabet, *and kai when h?s Elizabeth Elisabet heard akou? the ho greeting aspasmos of ho Mary Maria, · ho the ho baby brephos leaped skirta? in en · ho her autos womb koilia. · kai Elizabeth Elisabet was filled pimpl?mi with the Holy hagios Spirit pneuma, · ho*and kai exclaimed anaph?ne? with a loud megas cry kraug?, · kai saying leg?, “ Blessed euloge? are you sy among en women gyn?, and kai blessed euloge? is the ho fruit karpos of ho your sy womb koilia! *And kai why pothen should this houtos happen to me eg? that hina the ho mother m?t?r of ho [RED]my eg? Lord kyrios[/RED] should come erchomai to pros me eg?? *For gar behold idou, as h?s the ho sound ph?n? of ho your sy greeting aspasmos came ginomai into eis · ho my eg? ear ous, the ho baby brephos in en my eg? womb koilia leaped skirta? for en joy agalliasis. · ho*· kai Blessed makarios is she ho who believed pisteu? that hoti there would be eimi a fulfillment telei?sis of what ho was spoken lale? to her autos from para [RED]the Lord kyrios[/RED].” *And kai Mary Mariam said leg?, “ My eg? soul psych? magnifies megalyn? · [RED]ho the ho Lord kyrios[/RED], *and kai my eg? spirit pneuma rejoices agallia? · ho because epi of ho God theos · ho my eg? Savior s?t?r, *for hoti he has looked epiblep? on epi the ho humble tapein?sis estate of ho his autos maidservant doul?. For gar behold idou, from apo · ho now nyn on all pas generations genea will declare makariz? me eg? blessed , · ho*because hoti the ho Almighty dynatos has done poie? great things megas for me eg?. · kai His autos name onoma is holy hagios, · ho*and kai · ho his autos mercy eleos extends to those ho who fear phobeomai him autos, from eis generation genea to kai generation genea. *“ He has displayed poie? might kratos with en his autos arm brachi?n; he has scattered diaskorpiz? those who are proud hyper?phanos in the thoughts dianoia of their autos hearts kardia. *He has brought kathaire? down rulers dynast?s from apo their thrones thronos and kai exalted hypso? those of humble tapeinos position . *He has filled empipl?mi the hungry peina? with good agathos things , but kai the rich ploute? he has sent exapostell? away empty kenos. *He has helped antilamban? his autos servant pais Israel Isra?l, remembering mimn?skomai his mercy eleos, *as kath?s he spoke lale? to pros · ho our h?meis fathers pat?r, to ho Abraham Abraam and kai · ho his autos descendants sperma for eis all ho time ai?n.” *Mary Mariam remained men? · de with syn her autos about h?s three treis months m?n and kai returned hypostreph? to eis · ho her autos home oikos. - Luke 1:39-56 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:39-56&version=MOUNCE

Jesus is Lord.
God is Lord.
There is only one Lord. (Eph. 4:4-6 same word used for Lord as in the passage above, talking about the same Spirit.)
ERGO Jesus is God.

I do not remember this verse though.

I'm really surprised you don't, because it's the story of the events prior to our Savior's birth. Don't you think that that's kind of important to remember?

I provided it above in my previous comment, and again in this comment so that you can read it.

Remember back in Luke where Jesus, mere moments after He was born, was called Savior, and Christ the Lord?

Some translations do not include the word "Christ" in this verse as it is not there.

*But kai the ho angel angelos said leg? to them autos, “ Do not m? be afraid phobeomai; for gar behold idou, I announce euangeliz? to you hymeis good news of a great megas joy chara which hostis will be eimi for all pas the ho people laos, *because hoti this very day s?meron there has been born tikt? to you hymeis, in en the city polis of David Dauid, a savior s?t?r who hos is eimi Messiah Christos, the Lord kyrios. - Luke 2:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:10-11&version=MOUNCE

The original Greek NT had it. That means that any version that does not have it removed it.

Remember back in Luke, where Simeon calls Jesus God's salvation, a light, and the glory of Israel?

But he did not call him God.[/QUOTE]

Jesus is God's salvation. That makes him by default a Savior. There is only one Savior, who is Christ the Lord. There is only one Lord, and that is God, there is only one Savior, and that is God, ergo, Jesus is God. (see the verses above)

Need I go on? Or are these Scriptures enough to show you that Jesus is Christ, and is the [Spirit] Son of God made flesh, as John 1:14 says? (Which passage also calls Jesus "Jesus Christ" before Jesus' baptism, need I remind you.)

Yes, for you have shown nothing but your assumptions.

And you apparently didn't read and compare the scriptures I provided.

*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. *He was in the beginning with God. *All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. *In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. *And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.*And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.*John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”*And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. *For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. *No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. - John 1:1-5,14-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1-5,14-18&version=NKJV

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that [RED]Miltha was with Elohim[/RED]. And [RED]Elohim was that Miltha[/RED].
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands.

As I said above, the original New Testament was written in Greek, but even so, the Aramaic English version also says that the Miltha (aka the "Word" of the original Greek text) was with God and the Miltha was God.

Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.

Miltha is the spiritual son of Elohim (God).
Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua (Jesus Christ)
YHWH is the name of the most high God.
Ruach haKodesh is the Holy Spirit.
Elohim is God or a god, it can refer to more than the creator.

And yet, none of that goes against what I said above, in this post and previous, that the Word was with God, and the Word was God, for all of eternity past.

Jesus is the Word made flesh. Don't believe me? Read through the four Gospels again.

It does not say that JESUS is the Word made flesh, your still assuming.

No, Keypurr, I'm building on what I said above. Jesus is the Christ (even before his annointing by the Magi) and He is Immanuel, literally "God with us."

The Son of God BECAME a Man, the Man, Christ Jesus.

The logos became flesh when Jesus was anointed with the logos.

No, he became flesh when the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's Egg. If there is a scripture verse that says otherwise, please share it here for all to see, because I am not aware of any.

The Holy Spirit is a person, and He is NOT the Logos.

*Now de when en · ho all hapas the ho people laos had been baptized baptiz?, and kai when Jesus I?sous was baptized baptiz? and kai was praying proseuchomai, the ho heavens ouranos were opened anoig?, *and kai [RED]the ho Holy hagios Spirit pneuma[/RED] descended katabain? · ho on epi him autos in bodily s?matikos form eidos, like h?s a dove peristera; and kai a voice ph?n? came ginomai from ek heaven ouranos, “ You sy are eimi · ho my eg? Son hyios, the ho Beloved agap?tos; with en you sy I am well pleased eudoke?.” - Luke 3:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke3:21-22&version=MOUNCE

=====================================

Spoiler

*Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. *But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. *And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”*So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: *“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”*Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, *and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus. - Matthew 1:21-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew1:21-25&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, *saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”*When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. *And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.*So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet:*‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,Are not the least among the rulers of Judah;For out of you shall come a RulerWho will shepherd My people Israel.’” - Matthew 2:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew2:1-6&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh. - Matthew 2:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew2:11&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, *and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” - Matthew 2:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew2:14-15&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. *And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.” - Matthew 2:22-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew2:22-23&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. *He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. *And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”*Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”*And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:31-35 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:31-35&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! *But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? *For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. *Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.” - Luke 1:42-45 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:42-45&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. - Luke 2:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:11&version=NKJV

Spoiler

*And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. *And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. *So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, *he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:*“Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,According to Your word;*For my eyes have seen Your salvation*Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,*A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,And the glory of Your people Israel.” - Luke 2:25-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:25-32&version=NKJV

=====================================

The verse says "O God" or in the Greek, "ho theos", literally "the God." "?" (ho) is the definite article "the" in Greek.

*But de regarding pros the ho Son hyios he says, · ho “ Your sy throne thronos, O ho God theos, is for eis all ho time ai?n ho, · ho and kai the ho scepter rhabdos of ho absolute justice euthut?s is the scepter rhabdos of ho your sy kingdom basileia. - Hebrews 1:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:8&version=NKJV

KJV
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

AENT
8 But of the Son He said; Your throne, O Elohim, is for ever and ever; a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore Elohim, your Elohim, has anointed you with the oil of rejoicing more than your associates.

Your Greek is questionable.

Who's the one assuming things now?
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g3588

The Logos was not created.

*In en the beginning arch? was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos. - John 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1&version=NKJV

"The Logos was with God, and the Logos was God."

The beginning is the creation

Ok, and?

the express image was created before the main creation

No, He created all things, and all things that were created were created by Him, What you say contradicts what is said in John 1:3:

*All pas things were created ginomai by dia him autos, and kai apart ch?ris from him autos not oude a single thing heis was created ginomai that hos has been created ginomai. - John 1:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:3&version=NKJV

AND Colossians 1:15-18:

*He hos is eimi the image eik?n of the ho invisible aoratos God theos, · ho the firstborn pr?totokos over all pas creation ktisis; *for hoti in en him autos all pas things ho were created ktiz?, in en · ho heaven ouranos and kai on epi · ho earth g?, things ho visible horatos and kai · ho invisible aoratos, whether eite thrones thronos or eite dominions kyriot?s, whether eite principalities arch? or eite powers exousia— all pas things ho have been created ktiz? through dia him autos and kai for eis him autos. *And kai he autos is eimi before pro all pas things , and kai in en him autos all pas things ho hold synist?mi together . *And kai he autos is eimi the ho head kephal? of the ho body s?ma, the ho church ekkl?sia. He hos is eimi the beginning arch?, the firstborn pr?totokos from ek the ho dead nekros, in hina order that he autos might be ginomai preeminent pr?teu? in en everything pas. - Colossians 1:15-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:15-18&version=NKJV

for God created all through his first creation/creature.

Corect.

That logos is the spirit son of the Father

Correct.

and the Father was pleased that IT

"It"? Verse please.

contained his fullness. Heb 1:3, Col 1:15. All IMAGES are creations.

*God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, *has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; *who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, *having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. - Hebrews 1:1-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews1:1-4&version=NKJV

Look at the underlined portion of scripture I provided above. Does any of that say that the image was created? No, it says "BEING". Meaning it already existed. Something cannot "be" if it does not already exist. And there's no mention of any "creation" of an image. It also says image of "His person". So not only are we talking about the Son here, but the Son (who is a person) is the image of the person of the Father.

Now look at the bolded portion of the passage. Can anyone but God purge our sins? No, not a single created being has the power to purge sins. If what you say is true, that Jesus is not God, then Jesus, being a created being, and not God, who has all power that He keeps for Himself, then Jesus does not have anywhere near the amount of power that God has, and therefore could not cleanse away all of our sins. However, Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus washed away our sins BY HIMSELF.

Here is another passage:

*This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. *If we say that we have fellowship with Him {God}, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. *But if we walk in the light as He {God} is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His {God's} Son cleanses us from all sin.*If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. *If we confess our sins, He {God, not Jesus} is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. *If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him {God} a liar, and His {God's} word is not in us. - 1 John 1:5-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John1:5-10&version=NKJV

So if the verses above, from 1 John AND John, do not contradict, that shows us that Jesus is God, and the Father is God.

You ignore the passages that don't fit your theology, or try to explain them away, even though they very clearly go against your theology.

If you want to prove that you do not, respond to each of my points in this post, do not skip any.



Apparently not the Holy Bible, because none of what you say is backed up by the Bible.



See, you forget that the Bible has not changed much since it was first written.

Still need responses to these, Keypurr...

Which is why it's important to be aware of the fundamentals of the Bible, Keypurr.

You have been misled JR. There is many scriptures that says Jesus does have a God.

Where have I said He doesn't?

They never say that Jesus is God.

You're looking in all the wrong places.

Neither is the logos, the logos is a FORM of God.

No, the Greek, the English, and even the ANT is VERY, VERY clear in John 1:1. The logos IS God.

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

As I've said before, here and in other threads, CONTEXT is always important. It also helps to have the original text available to compare with our theology and understanding:

*So oun if ei there is any tis encouragement parakl?sis in en Christ Christos, if ei any tis comfort paramythion from love agap?, if ei any tis fellowship koin?nia in the Spirit pneuma, if ei any tis affection splanchnon and kai compassion oiktirmos, *make pl?ro? my eg? · ho joy chara complete by hina · ho being like-minded autos, having ech? the ho same autos love agap?, united sympsychos in spirit , with a ho single heis purpose phrone?. *Do nothing m?deis out kata of selfish ambition eritheia or m?de vain conceit kenodoxia, but alla in ho humility tapeinophrosyn? consider h?geomai others all?l?n more important hyperech? than yourselves heautou. *Each person hekastos should look out skope? not m? only for his own heautou interests ho, but alla also kai for the ho interests of others heteros. *Your hymeis attitude phrone? toward one another should be the same houtos as kai that hos of en Christ Christos Jesus I?sous, *who hos, although he was hyparch? in en the form morph? of God theos, did h?geomai not ou regard h?geomai equality isos with God theos a thing to be eimi grasped harpagmos, *but alla emptied keno? himself heautou, taking on lamban? the form morph? of a servant, being born ginomai in en the likeness homoi?ma of man anthr?pos. And kai being found heurisk? in appearance sch?ma as h?s a man anthr?pos*he humbled tapeino? himself heautou, becoming ginomai obedient hyp?koos to the point mechri of death thanatos, even de death thanatos on a cross stauros! *Therefore dio · kai · ho God theos has highly exalted hyperypso? him autos and kai bestowed charizomai on him autos the ho name onoma that ho is above hyper every pas name onoma, *so that hina at en the ho name onoma of Jesus I?sous every pas knee gony should bow kampt?, in heaven epouranios, and kai on earth epigeios and kai under the earth katachthonios, *and kai every pas tongue gl?ssa confess exomologeomai that hoti Jesus I?sous Christ Christos is Lord kyrios, to eis the glory doxa of God theos the Father pat?r. - Philippians 2:1-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:1-11&version=MOUNCE

Here is the specific portion that you provided, in English, with the interlinear Greek text (or is it Greek with interlinear English? :think.

*Your hymeis attitude phrone? toward one another should be the same houtos as kai that hos of en Christ Christos Jesus I?sous, *who hos, although he was hyparch? in en the form morph? of God theos, did h?geomai not ou regard h?geomai equality isos with God theos a thing to be eimi grasped harpagmos, *but alla emptied keno? himself heautou, taking on lamban? the form morph? of a servant, being born ginomai in en the likeness homoi?ma of man anthr?pos. And kai being found heurisk? in appearance sch?ma as h?s a man anthr?pos - Philippians 2:5-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-7&version=MOUNCE

Ponder that for a bit.

All the power Christ had was given to him by his God.

Christ emptied Himself of His power when he made himself of no reputation, coming in the form of a baby in a manger.

See my above challenge to you, Keypurr.



You haven't refuted anything.



Keypurr, I assert that it is you that has come to a point where you do not want to listen, and do you know what the Bible cals people who refuse to listen to correction? It calls them "stupid."



You're blinded by your own understanding, refusing to listen to those who have been appointed to teach.



No one here, including myself, has said otherwise. Jesus Christ was spirit before he became a man, and had been a spirit for all of eternity past prior to His birth. That includes when He created the universe.



You are mistaken. I have no problem with your faith. I have a problem with your theology.



I don't doubt it.



You should worship Jesus as God, or not worship Him at all, for either you worship God, or you worship a being that is not God. There is no in between, and God forbids the worship of anything or anyone other than Him. So either you're sinning, or your worshipping God.



The Bible shows that Jesus is God, not some group of people or some doctrine.



When will you realize that you have been deceived and turned away from what is taught in Scripture?



See my above comments in this post about this topic.



Jesus, the Son of God, the logos, died for our sins, giving us the ability to be with our Creator for all of eternity.



Care to provide the book, chapter, and verses for that claim?



No, Jesus is the Spirit made flesh. See above.



No, He was the logos the moment the Holy Spirit fertilized one of Mary's eggs, and before that in Heaven. See above.



Again, see above. Basing your theology upon a false premise makes your entire argument wrong.

You have so much to learn friend, so do all of us.

You still have yet to reply to the portion I quoted above. Could you do so, please?

And I have much to learn? Keypurr, while I don't deny that there is so much more I can learn about my God, you seem to have unlearned everything about Him, and you've forgotten what He says. If you hadn't, then you would read the following and admit your entire theology is wrong.

*And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:16&version=NKJV

 

[God's Truth]

All of your recent posts are just subterfuge to avoid admitting that you were wrong in saying that Trinitarian Doctrine teaches that the three persons in one essence are separate.

And you in the past have asked why I don't continue to respond to your posts.

This is the reason.

It goes nowhere!

It goes 'round and 'round and 'round, and all it would have taken is for you to get honest and say, "Okay, I see that now. Let's move on".

Maybe you should say that?

It is not worthless to discuss; how are you on a discussion site saying I am the one going around when you are going around?

Your trinity doctrine says that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and Jesus---however, the FATHER IS SPIRIT, and Jesus is Spirit.

Now there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT, so how is there God the Father one Spirit, Jesus Christ the Son ANOTHER AND DIFFERENT Spirit?

So tell me how the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not the same.

I am waiting for you to explain.

 

[God's Truth]

If they are not distinct, then there is no they.

Simple math.

There are three. The three are one and that means the same.

I want to know from any knowledgeable trinitarian believer how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not all Spirit and the SAME Spirit?

If you could tell me, then you could win me over.

It will not be from demeaning me, not from your insults and false accusations, it will be from Truth, which you will have to prove with scripture. If you cannot understand what I am saying, and you cannot give scripture, then don't bother, but don't demean me as if you won.

 

[God's Truth]

2 points: 1) The Lord Jesus Christ talks about the Holy Spirit as "Him" in a conversation already about Himself and His Father. You don't get to correct Him on this. :nono: Thanks for applying, we don't want you correcting anything that The Lord Jesus says either for us, or in front of us. No and thank you.

Just listen to yourself. You say the Lord Jesus Christ talks about the Holy Spirit as 'Him'.

That is RIGHT! Jesus IS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The trinitarian doctrine says that Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.

You just went against the trinitarian doctrine and are not smart enough to see it, IMHO.

2) "Tri-" then/and "-une" Of course Spirit is indivisible "-Une" That's 'why' we are "Tri-une." Modalists "-une" are half right, half wrong.
Tri or Di are wrong on the other half. ONLY Tri-une theology embraces all of scripture.

I don't understand any of that non biblical mumbo jumbo, and I am not trying to understand it.

A third point would be 3) Listen to what triune/Trinitarians are trying to tell you. You can't teach us your half, we ALREADY agree with your half and reject the rest. It means, we know both your and the Unit-arian views, and arrogantly, better than either of you do, because you don't get it.

That is your imagination.

I am not a modalist, and until you start believing and understanding what I say about my beliefs, then you will merely contradict yourself and go not 'get it'.

 

[God's Truth]

My point, GT, is that God the Father calls the Son "God" in both passages. Two people. Yet both are God. (The Holy Ghost is also God, but we'll leave that alone for a moment.)

Why, GT, would God the Father call His Son "God" if the Son is not a different Person than the Father?

That question is a self defeating question.

 

[God's Truth]

Christians know Who Jesus is, and so we know what 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV) means in a way that without which GT entirely misses the radiant beam of pure light emanating continually from that verse, in every language in which it is translated (including in "the Greek:" Παρέδωκα γὰρ ὑμῖν ἐν πρώτοις, ὃ καὶ παρέλαβον, ὅτι χριστὸς ἀπέθανεν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἡμῶν κατὰ τὰς γραφάς·). But seeing its radiance requires knowing Who God is, the Most Holy and Most Blessed and Undivided Trinity. GT rejects the Trinity and in so doing cannot comprehend 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV). Where the Church sees brilliant radiance shining forth, GT sees an inconsequential factoid.

Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey!

You mock by saying, "Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey! Obey!"

However, Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

How will you ever get the Spirit and life if you do not obey, do, what the Word says?

 

[God's Truth]

How many true God's are there?
Jesus has a God so he is not God.


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There is only ONE GOD, and he is the Father.

Jesus is God, and he is the one and only God the Father come in the flesh as a Son.

 

[God's Truth]

Keypurr, what you believe and teach is against God, for there are NOT TWO SONS SENT.

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, what you believe and teach is against God, for there are NOT TWO SONS SENT.

GT you do not understand my thoughts.
Jesus is a man.
The son at the creation is a spirit.
God has a spirit and a flesh son.
You need to see that before you will know what I post.

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[JudgeRightly]

GT you do not understand my thoughts.
Jesus is a man.
The son at the creation is a spirit.
God has a spirit and a flesh son.
You need to see that before you will know what I post.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

And you don't know God's Word very well. You didn't even know that Elizabeth called both Jesus in the womb and God in Heaven "Lord".

 

[keypurr]

And you don't know God's Word very well. You didn't even know that Elizabeth called both Jesus in the womb and God in Heaven "Lord".

You would be surprised at what you don't know.

Work on that then we will discuss what I do know.

Each has something to share, but do not put your complete trust in the Greek to English translations as they are not perfect. Prove all things friend.

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[God's Truth]

GT you do not understand my thoughts.
Jesus is a man.
The son at the creation is a spirit.
God has a spirit and a flesh son.
You need to see that before you will know what I post.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

I understand exactly what you believe because we have debated many times for many years.

As for Jesus being a man---ALL MEN HAVE a spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

You would be surprised at what you don't know.

Work on that then we will discuss what I do know.

Each has something to share, but do not put your complete trust in the Greek to English translations as they are not perfect. Prove all things friend.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

You are so close to the truth, if you would only acknowledge that Jesus IS the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

[keypurr]

I understand exactly what you believe because we have debated many times for many years.

As for Jesus being a man---ALL MEN HAVE a spirit.

Your post proves that you do not know my thoughts GT.

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[keypurr]

You are so close to the truth, if you would only acknowledge that Jesus IS the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

If you understood this verse you would see my faith.

The Lord was and is a spirit being that dwelled in a body that was prepared for it. The Universe was not created by Jesus, it was done through the Logos, the spirit son.

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[God's Truth]

Your post proves that you do not know my thoughts GT.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

You are posting your thoughts. You say God sent His Son the Spirit, and God sent His other other Son Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

If you understood this verse you would see my faith.

The Lord was and is a spirit being that dwelled in a body that was prepared for it. The Universe was not created by Jesus, it was done through the Logos, the spirit son.

Jesus IS the Word. Jesus is the Lord. Jesus is the Spirit.