The Trinity

[Ask Mr. Religion]

How to link to previous posts

How to link to previous posts

@Squeaky

I said
did you see my reply on pg 247?

A page number is dynamic, that is, it depends upon default settings or exactly how many posts per page a person sets in his TOL preferences. One person may have settings to show 100 posts per page, another, 10 posts per page. This usually depends upon how powerful the device the user is using. For example, on a mobile device, 10 posts per page would be normal as it would take lots of time (and data) to load 100 posts.

When using a web browser on a mobile device or a computer please use the link function to point to a post.

1. Go to the post in question.
2. Select the post number (#XX) in the upper right, then right-click that number.
3. In the popup that appears, select the "Copy link address..." option.
4. Paste that which you just copied in step #3 above into your new post, versus just posting the page number or even the post number itself.

This saves everyone plenty of time and is a proper etiquette for discussion sites.

AMR

 

[Lilstu]

John 17:6-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

So as we can see, Jesus was GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracles, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracles. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak.

John 7:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

John 8:26New American Standard Bible (NASB)
I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.”

John 14:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

So everything Jesus had was from God, from the Gospel to his miracles. God needs no one to give him power, God needs no one to tell him what to do, therefore Jesus is not God.

 

[TulipBee]

 

[Squeaky]

No, what post #

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I said
Post 3704

 

[SimpleMan77]

The Trinity

Fact: before Jesus, the Jews interpreted all the scriptures as saying that God was one Person

Fact: God knew that the Jews believed this to the point of it becoming their NATION-DEFINING theology

Fact: God purposely reinforced this concept, over and over and over in OT scripture, especially in Isaiah, saying "I created everything alone and by myself, there is none WITH ME, BESIDE ME, or even LIKE ME".

Fact: If Israel's concept was damnable heresy, as many claim (saying "to reject Trinity is to reject God"), then God purposely pushed them into it and purposely deceived them.

Oh, and BTW, Heb 1:1-2 says it was the Father saying all of that in the OT through the prophets. "God, who spake unto our fathers by the prophets, has spoken unto us by HIS SON". The one who fathered the Son was the one saying "there is no one like me or with me".

The only thing that was with God in the OT was His word, which revealed Him when He spoke to someone. That word (the revealing of God) became flesh according to John 1:14. God with us. It was none other than the Father of the OT in human form, who became a man.


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[Caino]

God has a Son who is God.

 

[Lilstu]

According to the poll about one third of the respondents do not believe the Bible teaches the Trinity.
Do the "rules" forbid a discussion of the Trinity vs Monotheism?

 

[Crucible]

Fact: before Jesus, the Jews interpreted all the scriptures as saying that God was one Person

Fact: God knew that the Jews believed this to the point of it becoming their NATION-DEFINING theology

Fact: God purposely reinforced this concept, over and over and over in OT scripture, especially in Isaiah, saying "I created everything alone and by myself, there is none WITH ME, BESIDE ME, or even LIKE ME".

Fact: If Israel's concept was damnable heresy, as many claim (saying "to reject Trinity is to reject God"), then God purposely pushed them into it and purposely deceived them.

Oh, and BTW, Heb 1:1-2 says it was the Father saying all of that in the OT through the prophets. "God, who spake unto our fathers by the prophets, has spoken unto us by HIS SON". The one who fathered the Son was the one saying "there is no one like me or with me".

The only thing that was with God in the OT was His word, which revealed Him when He spoke to someone. That word (the revealing of God) became flesh according to John 1:14. God with us. It was none other than the Father of the OT in human form, who became a man.
[/QUOTE]



The Trinity was a revelation that had not yet occurred. God had yet to reveal the Son, and Since the Trinity is nonetheless monotheistic He simply referred to Himself as such.

You see, your arguments don't hold any weight. In order to do so, you must prove that 'Son of God' was not understood as 'God the Son', and you must not perch yourself on your own petard doing so because Jesus did many things that according to the OT that is reserved only for God.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I will have to log in on a regular computer. I used Chrome browser on my phone, and went to the non-mobile site, and it did show the poll, but still would not let me vote with the touchscreen interface.

When will you cast your vote?

AMR

 

[SimpleMan77]

When will you cast your vote?

AMR

Another dodge. Sigh. I already said plainly that my answer is "no", but I'll go to a computer to log in and vote (can't do it on the phone) to humor you.

If I go vote on the poll will you answer my questions without dodging anymore?


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[Lilstu]

Fact: God knew that the Jews believed this to the point of it becoming their NATION-DEFINING theology

Fact: God purposely reinforced this concept, over and over and over in OT scripture, especially in Isaiah, saying "I created everything alone and by myself, there is none WITH ME, BESIDE ME, or even LIKE ME".

Fact: If Israel's concept was damnable heresy, as many claim (saying "to reject Trinity is to reject God"), then God purposely pushed them into it and purposely deceived them.

Jesus and the Woman at the Well
We are all familiar with the story of the Samaritan woman who speaks with Jesus at Jacob's well. John chapter 4.
I would like you to examine an important verse in their conversation.......John 4:22

22"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Consider what Jesus meant in this verse as he spoke to the Samaritan woman.

Jesus is telling her that the Samaritans do not know God but that the Jews do know God. Jesus is saying "We Jews worship the God we know"
Jesus is saying that the Jews know God.

Jesus makes another interesting comment on this subject at Matthew 23:2-3
2saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;

3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

Please take notice that Jesus says ...""all that they tell you, do and observe""

In the Scriptures I have quoted, Jesus is endorsing the Jews understanding of God.

Now consider......Do the Jews believe that God is a Trinity?
If Jesus said ""we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. "" and ""all that they tell you, do and observe"" how can you possibly believe that Jesus believed in a trinity.

 

[Lilstu]

You see, your arguments don't hold any weight. In order to do so, you must prove that 'Son of God' was not understood as 'God the Son', and you must not perch yourself on your own petard doing so because Jesus did many things that according to the OT that is reserved only for God.

Adam was a Son of God and he was not a God.
Luke 3:38King James Version (KJV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Israel was a Son of God and he was not a God.
Exodus 4:22-23King James Version (KJV)
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Deuteronomy 14:1-2King James Version (KJV)
14 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Solomon was a Son of God and he was not a God.
1 Chronicles 22:9-10King James Version (KJV)
9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

1 Chronicles 28:6King James Version (KJV)
6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.



Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


0 Bible results for “"God the Son".”

 

[Crucible]

Adam was a Son of God and he was not a God.
Luke 3:38King James Version (KJV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Israel was a Son of God and he was not a God.
Exodus 4:22-23King James Version (KJV)
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Deuteronomy 14:1-2King James Version (KJV)
14 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Solomon was a Son of God and he was not a God.
1 Chronicles 22:9-10King James Version (KJV)
9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.
10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

1 Chronicles 28:6King James Version (KJV)
6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.



Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


0 Bible results for “"God the Son".”

Go spread your vain heresy somewhere else. You're not saying anything that hasn't been brought up and debunked on here a thousand times over before.
That's all you anti-Trins got- al of which can be remedied by you simply referencing Isaiah beside the NT. But that's completely wasted on yall, because yall are simply 'denialists'= it's impossible to convince such a person.

 

[Lilstu]

Go spread your vain heresy somewhere else. You're not saying anything that hasn't been brought up and debunked on here a thousand times over before.
That's all you anti-Trins got- al of which can be remedied by you simply referencing Isaiah beside the NT. But that's completely wasted on yall, because yall are simply 'denialists'= it's impossible to convince such a person.

I'm quoting Scripture. Are you quoting your Trin Pastor?

 

[Crucible]

I'm quoting Scripture. Are you quoting your Trin Pastor?

Quoting scripture only has value when it's done correctly and with reason. You're just throwing out whatever random thing you find hoping it sticks.
And it won't, because I've debunked every single thing you've posted on here a hundred times over before. I just don't feel like arguing with denialists right now :wave:

 

[keypurr]

AND THE DEITY OF SATAN

xxxThe devil is a deity.

4567 Satanas (sat-an-as');

of Aramaic origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. the devil:

KJV-- Satan.

1140 daimonion (dahee-mon'-ee-on);

neuter of a derivative of 1142; a daemonic being; by extension a deity:

KJV-- devil, god.

The only three in one trinity god in the bible is the dragon, devil, satan.

2316 theos (theh'-os);

of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:

KJV-- X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].


2 Cor 11:14-15
14And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)

II Th 2:4
4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(NKJ)

xxx There is only one three in one god in the whole bible. Satan is useing the trinity to mock the living God.

Rev 20:2
2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)

How do we define Deity?
God or godlike?

I believe all power comes from the Father.
I also think the Father gave that power to his son.

To us, Christ is a form of God, however not God himself.

Satan is an Angel, not God. As powerful as he is, he is limited by his God. I find it hard to call him as a god. All angels are creations. There is only one true God, the Father.

I will give this more of my attention when my surgery is over. Right now my mind is thinking of other things friend.

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[keypurr]

Quoting scripture only has value when it's done correctly and with reason. You're just throwing out whatever random thing you find hoping it sticks.
And it won't, because I've debunked every single thing you've posted on here a hundred times over before. I just don't feel like arguing with denialists right now :wave:

Run, run. Why not just give scripture to disprove him?

You can't. Man has assumed many things that are not true. There is no Trinity God to be found in scripture. If your faith is based on false teachings it is worthless.

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[Crucible]

Run, run. Why not just give scripture to disprove him?

You can't. Man has assumed many things that are not true. There is no Trinity God to be found in scripture. If your faith is based on false teachings it is worthless.

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You all reject cross referencing and inductive reasoning. It's either "God is Triune" literally stated in the Bible or nothing, and that is why it's pointless debating with any of you. Denialism at it's worst.

 

[keypurr]

Its pointless because you have no valid argument. You can not twist scripture to say what you want it to say. Any power that Christ has was given to him by his Father. If he was God he would not have had to get it from his God. Yes he has a God, yes there is only one true God. That destroys your Trinity.


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[marhig]

Quoting scripture only has value when it's done correctly and with reason. You're just throwing out whatever random thing you find hoping it sticks.
And it won't, because I've debunked every single thing you've posted on here a hundred times over before. I just don't feel like arguing with denialists right now :wave:

So what about these two verses? Jesus explains himself very clearly here.

John 20

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 17

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus is making it quite clear that there is only one true God and that he is God the father, and that God is his God and his father and he calls his apostles and disciples his brethren making God the father of all of them, him included.

Jesus calls himself the son of God, never God the son, and his disciples and apostles do the same. If he was God the son, don't you think that God would have made sure that this would have been in the Bible? Even just once? But no, it's nowhere to be seen because it's a false teaching made up by man!

There is no God the son in the Bible, and the trinity is a false doctrine thought up by a group of men 300 years after Jesus. Starting with a duality, leaving out the holy spirit until a later date then eventually deciding to add him in too, thus making false the trinity doctrine.