keypurr
Well-known member
The blind blind do not wish for the truth, it would upset their comfort zone.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
SimpleMan77
New member
I think we're making the same point (about people who love comfort zones). The difference between myself and some others on here is that I have not dodged any question, nor ducked any challenge on my view of a verse, etc.
Typically those that hide and can't answer simple questions are the ones staying in the comfort zone.
I love to discuss and debate the Word of God, and one of the main reasons is that it sharpens my understanding. I love it when someone challenges me in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I've changed in response to that, when the truth revealed a flaw in my understanding.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
And how do you interpret John 1:1, 14
John 1:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Word Made Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh, and [a]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
SimpleMan77
New member
The one, invisible God spoke the worlds into existence using his spoken word. That word was with him (in the sense that my words are "with me") before He spoke them, and really His words are Him (because they reveal him - His nature, will, power, etc).
If u see me or hear about me, you may think you know me. If I show up and cuss you out, you'd say "I saw the real him today". Jesus said we will be judged by our words, because they reveal the abundance of our heart. Our words are us.
God wasn't content with just his words to reveal Himself, He wanted to both reveal His nature fully and feel what we feel, so he turned the revelation of Himself - His word - into flesh, and Himself took on the nature of humanity.
The Trinitarian concept doesn't work here. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Father, and the Word was the Father"? Or maybe "the Word was with the triune God and the Word was the triune God"?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Please cast your vote in the poll above. Why are you afraid to make your view plainly seen?
AMR
SimpleMan77
New member
I use the iOS app for this, and it splits this one into 187 pages. How far back do I have to go to find the poll?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
You should be able to go to the first page and vote
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
In case I never answered your question simply and distinctly, the answer is no. In fact, not only is it never taught, it is actively taught against.
God spends 2/3 of His word and 2/3 of History explicitly and repeatedly reinforcing the nation-defining Jewish theology of God's singularity.
Throughout OT Scripture, he is purposely forcing and reinforcing the paradigm, setting the stage for when Jesus would come. He essentially says, in his word, here is my (personal) DNA, and if you find anyone with this DNA you have found me, because there is no one else with it.
True Hebrew scholars never looked at the words of the Hebrew Scriptures, and saw anything other than God being one person. Modern Hebrew scholars cannot match the understanding of that language, because they are looking back on it 2000 years later. The ones that truly understand a language are those that understand all of its cultural implications, nuances, etc. - those that have been bathed in the language from birth.
If God knew his people misunderstood what "one God" meant, and that the misunderstanding was defining them as a nation, there is no way that he would have sent Isaiah to push them deeper into heresy with all his talk of one God (by the way Heb 1:1-2 says that was the Father speaking through Isaiah, saying there is no one like me, With me, and I made the heavens and earth by myself without any help). It is just not his M.O. to purposely mislead people and set them up for believing a damnable heresy.
The child that was born and given was the Everlasting Father. God and man.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
In case I never answered your question simply and distinctly, the answer is no. In fact, not only is it never taught, it is actively taught against.
God spends 2/3 of His word and 2/3 of History explicitly and repeatedly reinforcing the nation-defining Jewish theology of God's singularity.
Throughout OT Scripture, he is purposely forcing and reinforcing the paradigm, setting the stage for when Jesus would come. He essentially says, in his word, here is my (personal) DNA, and if you find anyone with this DNA you have found me, because there is no one else with it.
True Hebrew scholars never looked at the words of the Hebrew Scriptures, and saw anything other than God being one person. Modern Hebrew scholars cannot match the understanding of that language, because they are looking back on it 2000 years later. The ones that truly understand a language are those that understand all of its cultural implications, nuances, etc. - those that have been bathed in the language from birth.
If God knew his people misunderstood what "one God" meant, and that the misunderstanding was defining them as a nation, there is no way that he would have sent Isaiah to push them deeper into heresy with all his talk of one God (by the way Heb 1:1-2 says that was the Father speaking through Isaiah, saying there is no one like me, With me, and I made the heavens and earth by myself without any help). It is just not his M.O. to purposely mislead people and set them up for believing a damnable heresy.
The child that was born and given was the Everlasting Father. God and man.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
SimpleMan77
New member
The only thing I can see on the first page is the initial question, and the first 20 responses. iOS app breaks it into 20 responses per page.
I will gladly answer a poll question if someone wants to repeat the question.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
The Trinity not taught?
Matthew 28:19-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 [Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
Either that "name" is the name of Jesus, or the Bible is not the word of God, and is full of discrepancies. The apostles knew exactly what Jesus was instructing them to do, and went and baptized in His name.
If you read four abbreviated biographies of my life totaling 114 pages, and someone else lived with me for 16 hours a day for 3 1/2 years, who would be more of an expert on my wishes and desires? Who would better know how to understand what I meant?
The book of acts is extremely important, because it shows how the men who had spent approximately 20,000 waking hours with Jesus interpreted and put into action his commands.
To spend that much time with a preacher today in a normal setting would take 39 years at 10 hours a week:
5 hrs Sunday (two services @ 2hrs each, plus Sunday dinner)
2 hours at midweek Bible study
3 hours in personal Bible study
If you spent 39 years with someone, and I read 114 pages of their story, I would hope that everyone would believe you.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Either that "name" is the name of Jesus, or the Bible is not the word of God, and is full of discrepancies. The apostles knew exactly what Jesus was instructing them to do, and went and baptized in His name.
If you read four abbreviated biographies of my life totaling 114 pages, and someone else lived with me for 16 hours a day for 3 1/2 years, who would be more of an expert on my wishes and desires? Who would better know how to understand what I meant?
The book of acts is extremely important, because it shows how the men who had spent approximately 20,000 waking hours with Jesus interpreted and put into action his commands.
To spend that much time with a preacher today in a normal setting would take 39 years at 10 hours a week:
5 hrs Sunday (two services @ 2hrs each, plus Sunday dinner)
2 hours at midweek Bible study
3 hours in personal Bible study
If you spent 39 years with someone, and I read 114 pages of their story, I would hope that everyone would believe you.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
It is the name of the Father, the name of Jesus and the name of the Spirit. Why is that so hard to see?
SimpleMan77
New member
Because the three are one essence, God.
SimpleMan77
New member
Why did the ones who had spent the modern day equivalent of roughly 39 years under his teachings go out and baptize, to a man, in the name of Jesus?
Why did Luke, in recounting the exact same teaching, record it as Jesus saying "that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name"?
Why did Isaiah let us know that the son's name would be called the Everlasting Father?
It is because "Everlasting Father" and "Father" are titles, not names. Jesus's name will be called the Everlasting Father according to Isaiah 9:6.
Son wasn't His name either. Jesus is the name.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
keypurr
Well-known member
You sound like me friend.
Like the Apostle Paul, I have one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. My Lord has a God who sent him to guide us.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
I think it is up to you to say why he said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit.
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
The main point is that the ones who knew him best, and chose to die rather than to disobey Him, interpreted baptizing in the name of Jesus as fulfilling His command. I agree with them. Jesus was the Father, the invisible Spirit of God, in the flesh. He was the one who said "I'm with you, but I'll be in you". The Apostles weren't confused.
But to answer the why...
I will say out if the gate that this is my feelings on it. I do know for 100% certainty that the Apostles felt that baptizing in Jesus name fully fulfilled and obeyed that particular command. If they said that the name "Jesus" was the 1 name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, I'll take their word (and actions) for it. The rest is my strong feeling on it, but the Bible doesn't say explicitly.
After Calvary there are three main components of our walk with God.
1. There is our relationship to the almighty Spirit of God. Sin is a transgression of His law, so repentance must be toward Him. He provides for us as a father to us.
2. We must embrace the work of Calvary. The shed blood of Jesus provides the only remission for our sins.
3. The Holy Ghost is the power of God inside. Grace always works from the inside out, and that is through the "enduing with power" that comes from the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Trying to have a relationship without all 3 aspects and components of our faith and experience is pointless and useless.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
The main point is that the ones who knew him best, and chose to die rather than to disobey Him, interpreted baptizing in the name of Jesus as fulfilling His command. I agree with them. Jesus was the Father, the invisible Spirit of God, in the flesh. He was the one who said "I'm with you, but I'll be in you". The Apostles weren't confused.
But to answer the why...
I will say out if the gate that this is my feelings on it. I do know for 100% certainty that the Apostles felt that baptizing in Jesus name fully fulfilled and obeyed that particular command. If they said that the name "Jesus" was the 1 name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, I'll take their word (and actions) for it. The rest is my strong feeling on it, but the Bible doesn't say explicitly.
After Calvary there are three main components of our walk with God.
1. There is our relationship to the almighty Spirit of God. Sin is a transgression of His law, so repentance must be toward Him. He provides for us as a father to us.
2. We must embrace the work of Calvary. The shed blood of Jesus provides the only remission for our sins.
3. The Holy Ghost is the power of God inside. Grace always works from the inside out, and that is through the "enduing with power" that comes from the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Trying to have a relationship without all 3 aspects and components of our faith and experience is pointless and useless.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Last edited:
SimpleMan77
New member
I answered you distinctly.
Now it's up to you to answer why you wouldn't choose to take the word of 12 men who spent around 20,000 waking hours each with Jesus, and were so committed to his teachings and intents that they would die for Him.
I said earlier it was the equivalent of someone today spending 39 years under a preacher, but I was terribly understating it. It actually is 12x that. All 12 men spent those 20,000 hours with Him, and every one of them understood Jesus to mean the same thing. All of them interpreted Matthew 28:19 as a commandment to baptize in His name.
Why look at modern understanding of one or two verses, instead of listening to the men who had a combined 240,000 hours listening to His instructions?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Then why mention the Father and the Spirit?