He was the first created angel by God.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
He was the first created angel by God.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Cite Scripture, please . . .
God's Truth
New member
They are the same.
keypurr
Well-known member
Sorry, my error.
Rosenritter
New member
...
Just trying to elicit an answer or question from someone?
Rosenritter
New member
I was going to ask you for the scripture reference for Lucifer being the first created angel. Tried to save board space by deleting the question when you'd already answered it by the time I finished creating the post.
Job 17:58
genuineoriginal
New member
When Jesus said many would "come in my name", He used a phrase that indicates that the people would claim to be an official representative of Him.
Jesus knew that those people would say Jesus was the Christ, but would be false teachers.
Was Paul mistaken?
Luke 13:25 25 [JESUS]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[/JESUS] |
Jesus said people would come and call Him Lord, but He would not know where they came from.
Paul was obviously talking about those people that obey Jesus as Lord, not those that just say the words "Jesus is Lord" without meaning it.
Luke 6:46 46[JESUS]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?[/JESUS] |
Rosenritter
New member
Use a little more discretion in your reading. It is required by Apple's claim that the word spirit must be interpreted as needing a capital "S" to make it abide by Trinitarian beliefs. I am content to let the context speak for itself without applying such eisigesis.
Please clarify.
Matthew 28:19-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
They are the same essence.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
They are the same essence.
The Oneness of God
The Nature of God
There is only one God, and we are to worship Him alone. “Hear, O Israel: TheLord*our God, the*Lord*is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength” (Deut. 6:4–5,*NKJV). The Old Testament emphasizes God’s numerical oneness in the strongest possible terms. No one else shares God’s glory, He created the universe alone and by Himself, no one is before or after Him,no one is beside Him, there is no one else, no one is equal to Him, and no one is like Him. (See*Isa. 42:8;*43:10–11;*44:6–8,*24;45:21–23;*46:5–9.) The New Testament also proclaims that God is one.*(See*Mark 12:28–30;*Gal. 3:20;*James 2:19.) There are no distinctions in God’s eternal being; He does not have plural centers of consciousness.
“God is a Spirit” (John 4:24). He is not made of physical matter. He is invisible to humans unless He reveals Himself in some way (John 1:18). He is omnipresent (everywhere present), omniscient (all knowing and wise), and omnipotent (all powerful). In short, He is transcendent—above and beyond human existence. At the same time, He loves humans, participates in human affairs, and works to deliver them from sin. In other words, He is also immanent—involved with His creation, manifesting Himself to humans, and actively working in their lives. The Bible describes God as*a single personal being who thinks, feels, and acts. He is not an abstract, impersonal substance in which multiple actors can dwell or in which multiple personalities can participate.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
God has revealed Himself as Father—as the Creator, as the source of all existence and life, and in parental relationship to humanity. (See*Isa. 63:16;Mal. 2:10;*Heb. 12:9.) He has revealed Himself in the Son—God coming in human identity. (See*Luke 1:35;*Gal. 4:4.) He has also revealed Himself as the Holy Spirit—in spiritual presence and action. (See*Gen. 1:2;*Acts 1:8.) Another divine title is the Word, which describes God in self-revelation. The Word is God Himself, particularly His character or mind as ultimately revealed in flesh (John 1:1,*14). Before His incarnation, we can describe the one God as Father, Word, or Spirit. When Jesus walked on earth as Godincarnate, the Spirit of God continued to be omnipresent.
The roles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are necessary to God’s plan of redemption for fallen humans. In order to save us, God provided a sinless Man who could die in our place, the Son of God. In foreordaining the plan of salvation and begetting the Son, God is the Father. In working in our lives to transform and empower us, applying salvation to us individually, God is the Holy Spirit. In sum, the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit describe God’s redemptive roles or works,*but they do not indicate eternally distinct persons in God, just as the Incarnation does not indicate that God had eternally preexistent flesh. The terms “Father” and “Son” in the New Testament serve to emphasize the true humanity of Jesus, not to make distinctions within God’s being. The title of Father reminds us of God’s transcendence, while the title of Son focuses on the Incarnation. Defining the Son as a second divine person would result in two Sons—an eternal, divine Son who could not die and a temporal, human Son who did die. The Bible never speaks of God as a “trinity” or as “three persons.” The new revelation of the new covenant is not another divine entity but the manifestation of the one God in flesh to be our Savior. (See*Matt. 1:21–23;*1 Tim. 2:5.)
The Identity of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the one God incarnate. “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Col. 2:9). “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, God manifest in flesh, our God and Savior, and the express image of God’s own person (substance). (See*2 Cor. 4:4;*Col. 1:15;*1 Tim. 3:16;*Titus 2:13;*Heb. 1:3;*2 Pet. 1:1.) When the New Testament writers called Jesus God, they confessed Jesus to be God in the Old Testament sense. Jesus accepted Thomas’s confession of him as “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28–29). Jesus is not the incarnation of a portion of God but of all*the identity, character, and personality of the one God. As to His eternal deity, there can be no subordination of Jesus to anyone else, whether in essence or position. Jesus is the*revelation of the*one God—I AM, Jehovah (Yahweh), the Father (John 8:58;10:30–38). In Heaven if we asked to see the Father apart from Jesus, the words of Jesus to Philip would still apply: “He who has seen Me has seen*the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?… The Father who dwells in Me does the works” (John 14:9–10,*NKJV). In eternity, we will see one God as revealed in the person of Jesus Christ (Rev. 22:3–4).
Jesus is also the Son of God. The term “Son” refers to Christ’s human identity (as in “the Son died”), and it acknowledges the union of deity and humanity in Christ (as in “the Son has power to forgive sin”), but it is not used apart from God’s incarnation. The terms “God the Son” and “eternal Son” are not biblical. The role of the Son began when Jesus was conceived miraculously in the womb of a virgin by God’s Spirit, so that God was His Father. (See*Matt. 1:18–20;Luke 1:35;*Heb. 1:5.) As the glorified Messiah, Jesus is now “on the right hand of God”—in the position of divine glory, exercising the power and authority of the invisible Spirit (Acts 7:55–60).
Jesus Christ is completely and genuinely human—in body, soul, spirit, and will. (See*Luke 22:42;*23:46;*Acts 2:31;*Rom. 1:3.) Christ’s humanity means that everything we can say of ourselves, we can say of Jesus in His earthly life, except He had no sin. (See*Heb. 2:14–18;4:15;*5:7–8.) Moreover, in every way that we relate to God, Jesus related to God, except that He did not need to repent or be born again. Thus, when Jesus prayed, submitted His will to the Father, and spoke about and to God, He simply acted in accordance with His authentic humanity. Although we recognize both deity and humanity in Christ, these two aspects of His identity were inseparably joined. While there was a distinction between the divine will and His human will, He always submitted the latter to the former. Jesus was, and remains, the one God manifested in flesh.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ. (See*2 Cor. 3:17;*Phil. 1:19.) The Holy Spirit does not come as another person but comes in another form (in spirit instead of flesh) and another relationship (“in you” instead of “with you”); the Holy Spirit is actually Jesus coming to dwell in human lives (John 14:16–18). By the presence of the Holy Spirit, Jesus fulfills His promise to dwell in our midst when we gather in His name (Matt. 18:20). All who experience a genuine work of God encounter one Spirit, not two or three. They do not experience three personalities when they worship, nor do they receive three spirits, but they are in relationship with one personal spirit being.
As Yahweh manifested in the flesh, Jesus is the only Savior (Isa. 45:21–23;Matt. 1:21–23). His name actually means “Yahweh-Savior,” and Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only*one who literally embodies the meaning of that name. Thus, Jesus is the only name given for our salvation (Acts 4:12). The Father was revealed to the world in the name of Jesus, the Son was given the*name of Jesus at birth, and the Holy Spirit comes to believers in the name of Jesus. (SeeMatt. 1:21;*John 5:43;*14:26;*17:6.) Thus, the one name that reveals the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit*is Jesus.
While on earth Jesus was fully God, not merely an anointed human. At the same time, He was fully human, not just an appearance of a human. He possessed the unlimited power, authority, and character of God. He was God by nature, by right, by identity; He was not merely deified by an anointing or indwelling. Unlike a Spirit-filled believer, the humanity of Jesus was inextricably joined with all the fullness of God’s Spirit. Jesus is the fullness of God dwelling in perfect humanity and manifesting Himself as a perfect human being. He is not the transmutation of God into flesh,the manifestation of a portion of God, the animation of a human body by God, or God temporarily dwelling in a separate human person. Jesus Christ is the incarnation—embodiment, human personification—of the one God.
—David K. Bernard
Sent from my LG-H443 using TheologyOnline mobile app
The Nature of God
There is only one God, and we are to worship Him alone. “Hear, O Israel: TheLord*our God, the*Lord*is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength” (Deut. 6:4–5,*NKJV). The Old Testament emphasizes God’s numerical oneness in the strongest possible terms. No one else shares God’s glory, He created the universe alone and by Himself, no one is before or after Him,no one is beside Him, there is no one else, no one is equal to Him, and no one is like Him. (See*Isa. 42:8;*43:10–11;*44:6–8,*24;45:21–23;*46:5–9.) The New Testament also proclaims that God is one.*(See*Mark 12:28–30;*Gal. 3:20;*James 2:19.) There are no distinctions in God’s eternal being; He does not have plural centers of consciousness.
“God is a Spirit” (John 4:24). He is not made of physical matter. He is invisible to humans unless He reveals Himself in some way (John 1:18). He is omnipresent (everywhere present), omniscient (all knowing and wise), and omnipotent (all powerful). In short, He is transcendent—above and beyond human existence. At the same time, He loves humans, participates in human affairs, and works to deliver them from sin. In other words, He is also immanent—involved with His creation, manifesting Himself to humans, and actively working in their lives. The Bible describes God as*a single personal being who thinks, feels, and acts. He is not an abstract, impersonal substance in which multiple actors can dwell or in which multiple personalities can participate.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
God has revealed Himself as Father—as the Creator, as the source of all existence and life, and in parental relationship to humanity. (See*Isa. 63:16;Mal. 2:10;*Heb. 12:9.) He has revealed Himself in the Son—God coming in human identity. (See*Luke 1:35;*Gal. 4:4.) He has also revealed Himself as the Holy Spirit—in spiritual presence and action. (See*Gen. 1:2;*Acts 1:8.) Another divine title is the Word, which describes God in self-revelation. The Word is God Himself, particularly His character or mind as ultimately revealed in flesh (John 1:1,*14). Before His incarnation, we can describe the one God as Father, Word, or Spirit. When Jesus walked on earth as Godincarnate, the Spirit of God continued to be omnipresent.
The roles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are necessary to God’s plan of redemption for fallen humans. In order to save us, God provided a sinless Man who could die in our place, the Son of God. In foreordaining the plan of salvation and begetting the Son, God is the Father. In working in our lives to transform and empower us, applying salvation to us individually, God is the Holy Spirit. In sum, the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit describe God’s redemptive roles or works,*but they do not indicate eternally distinct persons in God, just as the Incarnation does not indicate that God had eternally preexistent flesh. The terms “Father” and “Son” in the New Testament serve to emphasize the true humanity of Jesus, not to make distinctions within God’s being. The title of Father reminds us of God’s transcendence, while the title of Son focuses on the Incarnation. Defining the Son as a second divine person would result in two Sons—an eternal, divine Son who could not die and a temporal, human Son who did die. The Bible never speaks of God as a “trinity” or as “three persons.” The new revelation of the new covenant is not another divine entity but the manifestation of the one God in flesh to be our Savior. (See*Matt. 1:21–23;*1 Tim. 2:5.)
The Identity of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the one God incarnate. “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Col. 2:9). “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, God manifest in flesh, our God and Savior, and the express image of God’s own person (substance). (See*2 Cor. 4:4;*Col. 1:15;*1 Tim. 3:16;*Titus 2:13;*Heb. 1:3;*2 Pet. 1:1.) When the New Testament writers called Jesus God, they confessed Jesus to be God in the Old Testament sense. Jesus accepted Thomas’s confession of him as “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28–29). Jesus is not the incarnation of a portion of God but of all*the identity, character, and personality of the one God. As to His eternal deity, there can be no subordination of Jesus to anyone else, whether in essence or position. Jesus is the*revelation of the*one God—I AM, Jehovah (Yahweh), the Father (John 8:58;10:30–38). In Heaven if we asked to see the Father apart from Jesus, the words of Jesus to Philip would still apply: “He who has seen Me has seen*the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?… The Father who dwells in Me does the works” (John 14:9–10,*NKJV). In eternity, we will see one God as revealed in the person of Jesus Christ (Rev. 22:3–4).
Jesus is also the Son of God. The term “Son” refers to Christ’s human identity (as in “the Son died”), and it acknowledges the union of deity and humanity in Christ (as in “the Son has power to forgive sin”), but it is not used apart from God’s incarnation. The terms “God the Son” and “eternal Son” are not biblical. The role of the Son began when Jesus was conceived miraculously in the womb of a virgin by God’s Spirit, so that God was His Father. (See*Matt. 1:18–20;Luke 1:35;*Heb. 1:5.) As the glorified Messiah, Jesus is now “on the right hand of God”—in the position of divine glory, exercising the power and authority of the invisible Spirit (Acts 7:55–60).
Jesus Christ is completely and genuinely human—in body, soul, spirit, and will. (See*Luke 22:42;*23:46;*Acts 2:31;*Rom. 1:3.) Christ’s humanity means that everything we can say of ourselves, we can say of Jesus in His earthly life, except He had no sin. (See*Heb. 2:14–18;4:15;*5:7–8.) Moreover, in every way that we relate to God, Jesus related to God, except that He did not need to repent or be born again. Thus, when Jesus prayed, submitted His will to the Father, and spoke about and to God, He simply acted in accordance with His authentic humanity. Although we recognize both deity and humanity in Christ, these two aspects of His identity were inseparably joined. While there was a distinction between the divine will and His human will, He always submitted the latter to the former. Jesus was, and remains, the one God manifested in flesh.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ. (See*2 Cor. 3:17;*Phil. 1:19.) The Holy Spirit does not come as another person but comes in another form (in spirit instead of flesh) and another relationship (“in you” instead of “with you”); the Holy Spirit is actually Jesus coming to dwell in human lives (John 14:16–18). By the presence of the Holy Spirit, Jesus fulfills His promise to dwell in our midst when we gather in His name (Matt. 18:20). All who experience a genuine work of God encounter one Spirit, not two or three. They do not experience three personalities when they worship, nor do they receive three spirits, but they are in relationship with one personal spirit being.
As Yahweh manifested in the flesh, Jesus is the only Savior (Isa. 45:21–23;Matt. 1:21–23). His name actually means “Yahweh-Savior,” and Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only*one who literally embodies the meaning of that name. Thus, Jesus is the only name given for our salvation (Acts 4:12). The Father was revealed to the world in the name of Jesus, the Son was given the*name of Jesus at birth, and the Holy Spirit comes to believers in the name of Jesus. (SeeMatt. 1:21;*John 5:43;*14:26;*17:6.) Thus, the one name that reveals the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit*is Jesus.
While on earth Jesus was fully God, not merely an anointed human. At the same time, He was fully human, not just an appearance of a human. He possessed the unlimited power, authority, and character of God. He was God by nature, by right, by identity; He was not merely deified by an anointing or indwelling. Unlike a Spirit-filled believer, the humanity of Jesus was inextricably joined with all the fullness of God’s Spirit. Jesus is the fullness of God dwelling in perfect humanity and manifesting Himself as a perfect human being. He is not the transmutation of God into flesh,the manifestation of a portion of God, the animation of a human body by God, or God temporarily dwelling in a separate human person. Jesus Christ is the incarnation—embodiment, human personification—of the one God.
—David K. Bernard
Sent from my LG-H443 using TheologyOnline mobile app
So why would God be lower than the angels?
Rosenritter
New member
For the purpose of the suffering of death.
Hebrews 2:9 KJV
(9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
SimpleMan77
New member
Why did the Father say in Isaiah 44:24 I created heaven and earth "alone" and "by myself"?
Hebrews 1:1&2 plainly says that the God of the Hebrews, the one God who spake unto their forefather by the prophets, has a son and has spoken through him. To have a son makes you the Father.
This verse (and several like it) undeniably proves that the one the New Testament calls "the Father" was the speaker through the prophets.
So the Father says "I made everything ALONE and BY MYSELF. There is none like me, no God with me, beside me, etc".
How can the Father be so self-indulging to not share the credit with the Son and Holy Ghost? How do you think they felt, sitting there beside Him, and hearing Him make those statements.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Hebrews 1:1&2 plainly says that the God of the Hebrews, the one God who spake unto their forefather by the prophets, has a son and has spoken through him. To have a son makes you the Father.
This verse (and several like it) undeniably proves that the one the New Testament calls "the Father" was the speaker through the prophets.
So the Father says "I made everything ALONE and BY MYSELF. There is none like me, no God with me, beside me, etc".
How can the Father be so self-indulging to not share the credit with the Son and Holy Ghost? How do you think they felt, sitting there beside Him, and hearing Him make those statements.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Ask Mr. Religion
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The word is actually Lord which refers to the one, true God. Kudos for trying to smuggle in "Father" in an attempt to deny the Trinity. :AMR:
It is fine to be a simple man, but let's not be simplistic when it comes to sacred topics.
AMR
SimpleMan77
New member
So in your opinion is a triune God speaking in this passage as a composite?
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