The Timelessness of God

[Right Divider]

Then it's part of the creator.

Nope

No more than a carpenter is part of a table.

 

[Right Divider]

Remember means to bring it up in your mind.
To not remember means to not bring it up to your mind.

That's what forgiveness is ----- no longer bringing up one's faults.
When we are faulted and we forgive them of their faults, we say 'forget about it'.

That was exactly what I was saying.

It's NOT that God no longer knows.

 

[Right Divider]

I was asking you based on your interpretation of what I believe.

I think He does what He says He will do. Or do you think He lied when He said He would forget the sins?

Where does it says that God forgets?

You're very emotional.

God does not lie. God CANNOT lie.

 

[JudgeRightly]

First my view regarding God:

I view God as a construction, an idea constructed in an effort to understand our mysterious and uncertain lives, evident by the pantheon of historically existing, primarily irrelevant, gods. As such the question of God's existence between existing as a mere idea against His presumed ontological being maintains a wider gap than the average believer will comfortably admit to.

With this in mind....the answer to your question is, no...quite to the contrary.

I think we can safely say that God does exist, and not just in our imaginations.

See Battle Royale VII in the Coliseum.

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[quip]

Nope

No more than a carpenter is part of a table.

Yep.

Time is both a collorary of the carpenter's action to his creation of the table.

 

[Right Divider]

An attribute? No.

An aspect of His existence, YES.

The Bible does not mention that aspect of Him.

I think God had some idea that Abraham loved God, and as you say, God knows what is on a man's heart. But I think God likes to confirm things, instead of just look and see.

I cannot understand what you mean by that.

God could have, but chose to do it in 6 days, and rested on the 7th, so that He could admire His work. He wanted to intimately know what He was creating.

Scripture please.

In the Bible, we see the 7 day week as a MODEL for work and rest for Israel. That is not conjecture like I see you use above.

Exod 20:8-11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (20:9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (20:10) But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: (20:11) For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ​

 

[Right Divider]

Yep.

Time is both a collorary of the carpenter's action and his creation of the table.

Nowhere near the same.

The carpenter takes EXISTING objects and puts them into a new form.

God created something out of NOTHING.

 

[quip]

If I have not ears to hear my neighbor, how can I open mouth towards my neighbor?

Your turn to "shoot". [MENTION=2365]quip[/MENTION]

Unlike the collorary relating a carpenter to his created table....how can God create sans time?
It seems a rational dead-end. Must you simply rely upon the appeal of a inexplicable supernatural explanation?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Unlike the collorary relating a carpenter to his created table....how can God create sans time?
It seems a rational dead-end. Must you simply rely upon the appeal of a inexplicable supernatural explanation?

No

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Unlike the collorary relating a carpenter to his created table....how can God create sans time?
It seems a rational dead-end. Must you simply rely upon the appeal of a inexplicable supernatural explanation?

Do you believe in life after death in any fashion?

 

[Yahu]

Those who exist in "time" are constrained by time. They cannot go back in time and they cannot go forward in time. In fact, they cannot even know things which will happen in the future.

In this verse the Scriptures speak of the "foreknowledge" of God:

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2).​

It is obvious that God is not constrained by time because He can know things which will happen in the future. Since He is not so constrained then we can know that He exists outside of time so it can be said that He exists in a "timeless" environment.

I agree that the Father is outside of time and that time is part of creation.

What is also clear is He knows how His interactions can alter the future. This is seen in the story of David when Saul had him trapped in a city. David is warned to flee or the city will turn him over to Saul and David will be killed. So this shows how Yah not only knows THE future but all possible futures based on our actions.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Bible does not mention that aspect of Him.

You cannot show me a verse that indicates that God is outside of time, that He is atemporal, yet I can show you multiple verses throughout the Bible that God has a past, is in the present, and is looking forward to the future.

In the Bible, we see the 7 day week as a MODEL for work and rest for Israel. That is not conjecture like I see you use above.

You're right, it is conjecture. But it's based on the idea that we are at the center of His attention, that He is interested in what we do.

Unlike the collorary relating a carpenter to his created table....how can God create sans time?
It seems a rational dead-end.

This is one area where I agree. Mayhaps you would want to view kgov.com/time

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[Yahu]

GOD - I'll do this if and when you do that.
That's not GOD working in timelessness, that's GOD waiting to see what happens before He reacts.

I disagree. It just shows that multiple futures are possible.

 

[Clete]

Greetings Clete,

Perhaps we have a different understanding of the meaning of the word "constraint." I am using that word in the sense of "the state of being restricted," or to confine within bounds.

Nope. Same understanding.

You cannot be physically constrained by the boundaries of an idea. Time does not exist ontologically. It is an idea.

As mere creatures we are restricted from traveling into the future so in that sense we are "constrained" by time.

No one can go to a place that does not exist, including God.

It is irrational to suggest otherwise.

In fact, we cannot have a definite knowledge of very specific things which will happen in the future, such as knowing who will believe the gospel and who will not.

This is an unsubstantiated claim. You have made no attempt to establish this claim. Even if it is true (which it may well be), the fact that we cannot says nothing about what God can or cannot do. Further, what you'll never be able to establish is that God's knowledge or lack thereof has anything to do with existing outside of time.

That is what I mean when I am talking about the fact that we are constrained by time.

It isn't a fact. Time is not a real thing. It's just a convention of language that we use to convey information about the duration and sequence of events.

But the LORD is not so constrained (Acts 13:48) so we can know that the environment in which He exists, the eternal state, is one which can be described as being timeless.

We know no such thing.

Claims don't just magically turn into facts because you want them too.

I have used the same method which Paul used (he reasoned out of the Scriptures) in coming to my conclusion.

No, you haven't. You've argued for your doctrine from your doctrine.

If you think that anything which I said is in error then I will be willing to listen to what you may have to say.

Thanks!

No, you wouldn't! I've done NOTHING at all on this whole thread except talk about what you've said in error and you couldn't care less, which I specifically predicted before I ever finished typing my first post on this thread. Your argument falls apart in at least two different ways which I spelled out very clearly and to which you have failed to respond at all.

 

[Clete]

Says God.

God declares what will come to pass with absolute certainly. He is not guessing.

F=ma

Why then do some prophecies go unfulfilled?

 

[quip]

Nowhere near the same.

The carpenter takes EXISTING objects and puts them into a new form.

God created something out of NOTHING.

That's no more a rational explanation than "magic".

 

[quip]

No

:idunno:
Anything more to add?

 

[quip]

Do you believe in life after death in any fashion?

Perhaps reincarnation..though ive no way to prove this assertion. It may well be nonsense.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

:idunno:
Anything more to add?

No, not at this "time". Our discussion started on "Time".

If when we conclude this train of thought, I still have an opertunity to more fully answer your question, I would love to... but time it is.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why then do some prophecies go unfulfilled?

And the reverse of that, Why does God say that some things will not happen, and then they do?

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