The T in TaNaKh is for Torah.

[freelight]

I am sorry freelight, but I cannot be drawn into this.

Shalom.

Jacob

That is fine. It is a fundamental truth that 'God' (Spirit-Energy-Consciousness) is All There IS,....it is ONE, there is no outside of this Infinite One, since it is an indivisible Whole. This is the One Holy (Wholeness, condition of indivisible integrity) 'God' Reality, which the 'Shema' declares. 'God' is 'echad'

 

[freelight]

No freelight. Your words are not correct and they cut into my mind in an inappropriate way.

Shalom.

Jacob

I'm sorry your understanding of what 'repentance' means does not include the definitions I shared; perhaps learning more is something essential for yourself to progress forward, since your current attitude fosters religious and spiritual retardation. 'Repentance' is simply a re-turning of the mind towards 'God', a changing the mentality, a re-orientation towards 'God' and his laws (universal and divine principles). Hence, the Messiah says, "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand",....you have to re-turn your 'mind' towards the Spirit, and its laws, the logic and ethic of truth. Such is the return to right thinking and right doing. This understanding is pretty basic, its not rocket science. Also, this insight and understanding is 'appropriate' to the truth of the matter. A mind that is closed and restricted by dogmatism, irrationality, religious legalism or exclusivism, cannot expand or embrace a higher truth perspective. The opportunity for a greater understanding and contextual insight is always available.

 

[freelight]

There are 24 books in the TaNaKh.

Shalom.

Jacob

Who cares how many books are in your religious compendium, as if to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Does it matter beyond some trivial or mathematical equation? If you don't get the deeper spiritual meaning, intent or value within the written words (in the Torah or whatever book), and have a limited, constrained, self-serving or egotistical interpretation of such, it avails you little, but to be just another 'golden calf'.

 

[Jacob]

You listed the books and there were 39 of them!

From Judaism 101 - there are 39 books, regardless of how they are bunched up:

The TaNaKh has 24 books.

Shalom.

My understanding is that the Written Torah is five books.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, Your conversion to Judaism did not include the denial of Jesus Christ - which YOU stated. If you think you were converted and became a Jew this way, you are as wrong as a wolf among sheep. You need to face the truth instead of continually pushing a false declaration. You are not a Jew.

No

 

[Jacob]

That is fine. It is a fundamental truth that 'God' (Spirit-Energy-Consciousness) is All There IS,....it is ONE, there is no outside of this Infinite One, since it is an indivisible Whole. This is the One Holy (Wholeness, condition of indivisible integrity) 'God' Reality, which the 'Shema' declares. 'God' is 'echad'

No.

You do not understand.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

I'm sorry your understanding of what 'repentance' means does not include the definitions I shared; perhaps learning more is something essential for yourself to progress forward, since your current attitude fosters religious and spiritual retardation. 'Repentance' is simply a re-turning of the mind towards 'God', a changing the mentality, a re-orientation towards 'God' and his laws (universal and divine principles). Hence, the Messiah says, "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand",....you have to re-turn your 'mind' towards the Spirit, and its laws, the logic and ethic of truth. Such is the return to right thinking and right doing. This understanding is pretty basic, its not rocket science. Also, this insight and understanding is 'appropriate' to the truth of the matter. A mind that is closed and restricted by dogmatism, irrationality, religious legalism or exclusivism, cannot expand or embrace a higher truth perspective. The opportunity for a greater understanding and contextual insight is always available.

freelight,

I cannot accept what you are saying.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

Who cares how many books are in your religious compendium, as if to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Does it matter beyond some trivial or mathematical equation? If you don't get the deeper spiritual meaning, intent or value within the written words (in the Torah or whatever book), and have a limited, constrained, self-serving or egotistical interpretation of such, it avails you little, but to be just another 'golden calf'.

You have here demonstrated that you do not understand.

I encourage you to start somewhere. Start with something. We have Torah, the Prophets, the Writings. We have Matthew through Revelation.

Shalom.

 

[TweetyBird]

The TaNaKh has 24 books.

Shalom.

My understanding is that the Written Torah is five books.

Why do you keep saying this? There are 39 books in the Old Testament, no matter what you call it. I just listed them from a JEWISH website. COUNT THEM. There are THIRTY-NINE BOOKS, the exact same books in the OT. There was no Law given to Israel in Genesis. The Law was not given to them until Exodus.

TORAH (The Law):

Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

Yehoshua (Joshua)
Shoftim (Judges)
Shmuel (I &II Samuel)
Melakhim (I & II Kings)
Yeshayah (Isaiah)
Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
The Twelve (treated as one book):
Hoshea (Hosea)
Yoel (Joel)
Amos
Ovadyah (Obadiah)
Yonah (Jonah)
Mikhah (Micah)
Nachum
Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
Chaggai
Zekharyah (Zechariah)
Malakhi

KETHUVIM (The Writings):

Tehillim (Psalms)
Mishlei (Proverbs)
Iyov (Job)
Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
Ruth
Eikhah (Lamentations)
Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
Esther
Daniel
Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)

 

[Jacob]

Why do you keep saying this? There are 39 books in the Old Testament, no matter what you call it. I just listed them from a JEWISH website. COUNT THEM. There are THIRTY-NINE BOOKS, the exact same books in the OT. There was no Law given to Israel in Genesis. The Law was not given to them until Exodus.

TORAH (The Law):

Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

Yehoshua (Joshua)
Shoftim (Judges)
Shmuel (I &II Samuel)
Melakhim (I & II Kings)
Yeshayah (Isaiah)
Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
The Twelve (treated as one book):
Hoshea (Hosea)
Yoel (Joel)
Amos
Ovadyah (Obadiah)
Yonah (Jonah)
Mikhah (Micah)
Nachum
Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
Chaggai
Zekharyah (Zechariah)
Malakhi

KETHUVIM (The Writings):

Tehillim (Psalms)
Mishlei (Proverbs)
Iyov (Job)
Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
Ruth
Eikhah (Lamentations)
Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
Esther
Daniel
Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)

No

 

[TweetyBird]

No

Count them - I numbered them. They are the exact same books as found in the Old Testament. It does not matter what you call them and how you divide them. There are 39 books. Saying "no" is not going to change the number, no matter how many times you say it.

TORAH (The Law):

1 Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
2 Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
3 Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
4 Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
5 Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

NEVI'IM (The Prophets):

6 Yehoshua (Joshua)
7 Shoftim (Judges)
8,9 Shmuel (I &II Samuel)
10,11 Melakhim (I & II Kings)
12 Yeshayah (Isaiah)
13 Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
14 Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
15 Hoshea (Hosea)
16 Yoel (Joel)
17 Amos
18 Ovadyah (Obadiah)
19 Yonah (Jonah)
20 Mikhah (Micah)
21 Nachum
22 Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
23 Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
24 Chaggai
25 Zekharyah (Zechariah)
26 Malakhi

KETHUVIM (The Writings):

27 Tehillim (Psalms)
28 Mishlei (Proverbs)
29 Iyov (Job)
30 Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
31 Ruth
32 Eikhah (Lamentations)
33 Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
34 Esther
35 Daniel
36,37Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
38,39 Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)

 

[chair]

Count them - I numbered them. They are the exact same books as found in the Old Testament. It does not matter what you call them and how you divide them. There are 39 books. Saying "no" is not going to change the number, no matter how many times you say it.

TORAH (The Law):

1 Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)...

In Jewish tradition, the 12 minor prophets (15-26) are treated as one book. Samuel 1 and 2 are one book (the division was only for convenience, due to its length), as is Kings. Nechemia and Ezra are separate books. Chronicles is one book...

In short, same texts, just grouped differently. Nothing to get excited about.

 

[TweetyBird]

In Jewish tradition, the 12 minor prophets (15-26) are treated as one book. Samuel 1 and 2 are one book (the division was only for convenience, due to its length), as is Kings. Nechemia and Ezra are separate books. Chronicles is one book...

In short, same texts, just grouped differently. Nothing to get excited about.

I understand that, but his point is that the TaNaKh contains "different" books than the OT, by someone who is calling himself a Jew, but is not a Jew. It's ridiculous and ignorant.

 

[Jacob]

I understand that, but his point is that the TaNaKh contains "different" books than the OT, by someone who is calling himself a Jew, but is not a Jew. It's ridiculous and ignorant.

No. I do not know where you are getting this from. Elsewhere I have spoken to the order and arrangement of these books, and their being different. But chair is right. Also, I would point you to wikipedia on the TaNaKh.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[TweetyBird]

No. I do not know where you are getting this from. Elsewhere I have spoken to the order and arrangement of these books, and their being different. But chair is right. Also, I would point you to wikipedia on the TaNaKh.

Shalom.

Jacob

I do not need Wiki. I can count to 39. I understand the Talmudic divisions. They are not how a Christian views the OT, which contain the exact same books. You do not see how ridiculous these divisions are while sitting at the feet of a man who denies the new covenant of Jesus Christ. It is sad that you have thrown away your life chasing after a mirage.

During our discussion you have denied over and over again that the books found in the TaNaKh are found in the Old Testament. It has become a complete waste of time to discuss this with someone so obtuse and stubborn that they cannot see reality.

Torah is not going to save you or help you or give you any guidance into the ways of the Lord. I pray that you find the Lord Jesus Christ and the freedom that is in Him. He can deliver you from the bondage you have put upon yourself.

 

[Jacob]

I do not need Wiki. I can count to 39. I understand the Talmudic divisions. They are not how a Christian views the OT, which contain the exact same books. You do not see how ridiculous these divisions are while sitting at the feet of a man who denies the new covenant of Jesus Christ. It is sad that you have thrown away your life chasing after a mirage.

During our discussion you have denied over and over again that the books found in the TaNaKh are found in the Old Testament. It has become a complete waste of time to discuss this with someone so obtuse and stubborn that they cannot see reality.

Torah is not going to save you or help you or give you any guidance into the ways of the Lord. I pray that you find the Lord Jesus Christ and the freedom that is in Him. He can deliver you from the bondage you have put upon yourself.

You are wrong. You are making things up. These are false accusations. I was not even talking about the Old Testament. You were.

Shalom.

Jacob

Do you know what the old covenant is?

Shalom.

 

[TweetyBird]

You are wrong. You are making things up. These are false accusations. I was not even talking about the Old Testament. You were.

Shalom.

Jacob

Do you know what the old covenant is?

Shalom.

The old covenant is the old testament [covenant and testament are two words for the same thing] - all 39 books - which contain the history of that covenant with Israel, until God finally broke that covenant and promised a new covenant. The night Jesus was betrayed, He said that the new covenant was in His shed blood for the forgiveness of sins. He fulfilled Jer 31:31+ - all those in Him would be taught by God through Him, and God would forgive our iniquities and remember them no more. It was no longer obedience to the old covenant that God gave forgiveness and righteousness which was ratified in the blood of animals. That is why the 27 books are called the new covenant - the coming of the Gospel, fulfilled in Christ, His new commandments, and the history of the new covenant in the early church, setting the foundation through Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone, the apostles and prophets. That foundation was not Torah. The foundation is Christ Jesus, through His blood we are brought nigh to God and are building a spiritual habitation, not on Torah, but on and in our Lord and Savior, and the Gospel He and His disciples taught us.

 

[Jacob]

The old covenant is the old testament [covenant and testament are two words for the same thing] - all 39 books - which contain the history of that covenant with Israel, until God finally broke that covenant and promised a new covenant. The night Jesus was betrayed, He said that the new covenant was in His shed blood for the forgiveness of sins. He fulfilled Jer 31:31+ - all those in Him would be taught by God through Him, and God would forgive our iniquities and remember them no more. It was no longer obedience to the old covenant that God gave forgiveness and righteousness which was ratified in the blood of animals. That is why the 27 books are called the new covenant - the coming of the Gospel, fulfilled in Christ, His new commandments, and the history of the new covenant in the early church, setting the foundation through Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone, the apostles and prophets. That foundation was not Torah. The foundation is Christ Jesus, through His blood we are brought nigh to God and are building a spiritual habitation, not on Torah, but on and in our Lord and Savior, and the Gospel He and His disciples taught us.

Shalom! I see that you have some knowledge of the New Testament Scriptures, what is present in them as you read them. These are the Scriptures that many call the New Testament. The new covenant has come to the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Yeshua Messiah, 2000 years ago, God's law written upon minds and hearts. The old covenant is either the ten commandments, the 613 commandments, the Torah, or something else. It is not the Old Testament Scriptures, as far as I know. Shalom. Jacob.