Proving it can be kept by someone who is not under a law.
So are you claiming that if Adam had gathered sticks for a fire or picked some fruit to eat, that God would have killed him?
then please show me a verse anywhere in the bible that speaks of adam having knowledge of ever, one time, ever observing the sabbath. you can't and therefore wont
When someone imitates God, who did rest on the seventh day according to scripture, why would that person need a commandment telling him to rest on the Sabbath? The point of the commandment is to constrain those who would violate Sabbath.
You are continuing to make things up to make your theory fit. You can't show sabbath observance prior to the exodus so you are inventing theology to make adam observe the sabbath as though he were obeying God. You are desperate.
It's the same with any commandment in the Decalogue. Do you need a law telling you to not murder your brother because if there was no law you would murder your brother? If so, then you are still under the law. If you no longer have the heart of a murderer, then you are not under that law, not subject to it, because your heart is above the idea of breaking it.
The point is, no matter how hard you try, sabbath observance didnt come on the scene until the exodus and the formation of a nation, which God chose and then gave the law to. That nation, and no other, was responsible to keep the law. Much like abraham had never heard of circumcision until God told him about it, sabbath observance was not in existence until the Jew.
Then you are implicitly arguing that God made the sabbath for man to accomplish nothing for man. You are becoming more irrational with every post.
are you going to claim that a jew should keep the law in order to attempt to please God? Is that your claim? Attempting to get to heaven by keeping the law is not going to help anyone, Jew or gentile. The law of sabbath observance came with moses and left with Christ. It will be back in the millenium but during the age of grace, we are not under the law of moses.
If Paul is the author of Hebrews, he certainly did mention the Sabbath: See Hebrews 4:3-10.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The context is clearly the seventh day of the week.
The context is Christ. I have entered into Christ and just as Christ finished His work when He sat down, I have ceased from mine.
I am judging your poor argument that contradicts many scriptures and common sense as being increasingly irrational. Where have I judged you regarding your not keeping the sabbath? Below I will show you judging me for keeping the sabbath, hypocrite.
How is believing the bible irrational? Simple bible belief with logic shows you are in error.
1- the sabbath is a part of the law of moses
2- the sabbath observance was to be a sign between God and Israel
3- I am not under the law of moses but under grace.
4- I am not required to keep the sabbath.
My point was that if you claim the day is still sanctified and holy, if you treat it as common you are not treating it as holy. By your admission, you are treating what is holy as common. You given some lame reasons for doing that, but it doesn't change the fact proven by your own words--you are treating what is holy as common.
perhaps we are talking past each other. What do you mean by "keep the sabbath"? Do you want to stone those who work on the sabbath, or do you just want to sleep in on saturday and take it easy? Are we instituting sabbath observance as given to the jew which came with rules and punishments or do you just want "the day off?"
Can you choose to murder, commit idolatry, commit adultery, and covet all you want, too?
so when I say I esteem all days alike, are you saying Paul was a heretic for saying so? The sins you list above are all revealed to men by nature. In all countries and tribes on earth ever, those are common which is why every nation on earth has laws against them. But sabbath observance is another story. If not specifically commanded by God, men do not observe it as is easily demonstrated by those same nations where there does not exist a single law regarding sabbath keeping. Your list above is naturally revealed, like the existence of God is. Sabbath observance is not naturally revealed which is why nobody kept it before moses and no nation on earth anywhere has anything remotely like it now.
There you are judging me, hypocrite. And I'm not observing days, month, years, etc.
So the sabbath isn't a day?
Paul wasn't writing to the Galatians about the seveth day sabbath; that's only your faulty assumption.
I am sure you believe that, only it is not true. In order to make your theory work you have to prove that:
1- we are still under the law of moses (which we are clearly not)
2- or that the sabbath was not a part of the law of moses (which it clearly is, right there in the ten)
3- and that the sabbath is not a "day" (as you clumsily assert above)
4- and that the sabbath is not a "holy day"
5- and that Paul, a pharisee of pharisees, didn't have in mind the sabbath when he said "some men esteem all days alike"
6- and that any person prior to the nation of Israel kept the sabbath
7- and that the council in acts 15 forgot to add sabbath keeping to their decree
You have quite a mountain to climb :thumb:
You do that. I have given you ample evidence for my position.
You have not given evidence, you have attempted to piece together various points to make a conclusion fit your theory which stands against the clear second grade reading comprehension language of Scripture. The sabbath was a part of the law, I am not under that law. whatever "logic" you attempt to enter into the discussion is cut of at the knees with clear passages that need no interpretation.
So God did not make the sabbath for Choleric. Is that correct? Because if he made it for you, too, then logically you should have realized a benefit from it.
I have never kept the sabbath. I regularly cook meals and work around the house on saturday. CHrist is my rest.
You are mistaken. First, you have already conceded the day is still sanctified, so... Second, Hebrews 4:3-10 proves there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God
Christ is my rest
Third, the Decalogue is still in operation, proven by Paul's words, e.g. 1 Corinthians 6:9,10. Therefore, it is evident that I have not made it up.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Please explain to me how these verses contradict the passages that teach we are not under the law?
Look, you have essentially claimed Israel today doesn't have to keep the sabbath commandment. Now you concede it's a perpetual covenant. So does Israel have to keep the sabbath commandment of not? If not, then how is it a perpetual covenant, and why is it mentioned regarding the future,
It is perpetual, but keeping it today is meaningless as the only way to please God now is to trust Christ alone for salvation. "repentance from dead works and faith toward God". It will be reinstituted during the millenium.
and why were almost all Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath in the fourth and fifth centuries according to two church historians of the era?
what some people did is irrelevant to me. People were trying to keep the law in the first century. Paul called them "foolish galatians"
There is a way that seems right to a man. That "way" is to do something for God. that is the common thread of all religions of the world, they are all trying to earn God's approval with works. But Jesus said He is "THE WAY" and men only come to God by Him. Trusting Christ is the only way and to do that we must repent of "dead works" which are man's attempts to please God. The galatians had trouble staying on the straight and narrow and trusting Christ alone and wanted to go back to working, what Paul called the "weak and beggarly elements". It shoudl come as no surprise to see many sects reverting to works, it comes naturally.
Regardless, Paul was referring to Jeremiah 11:16 when he taught Gentiles were grafted onto the Olive Tree (Israel/Christ). You completely ignored my point to make absolutely no point. Find all the symbols of Israel in the Bible if you want, but it will not change the fact that Paul was referring Jeremiah 11:16 and that Israel was/is a type of Christ for the world.
God is very specific with His trees and Israel is the fig.
Nope. And I don't believe at this point you even understand what it means to be dead to the law. Paul claimed to "serve the law of God" with his mind, so maybe it's you that need the refresher on Romans 7.
I understand it perfectly. If I get a speeding ticket, I am responsible to pay. If I die, the law has no power over me. It cannot collect on the bill. Similarly, the law of moses is only over those who are alive. The power of sin is the law, which condemns and convicts and leads to death. Since I have died with Christ and been raised to newness of life, the law has no power over me.
While I am expected to live a holy life and expected to live without sin, if I do sin, the law cannot convict me because I am dead. It has no jurisdiction over me any longer. It cannot collect any debt as I cannot incur one.
Now you accuse me again of something I'm not doing.
You just said the decalouge is still in effect. Which is it? Perhaps we are talking past each other. Again I ask, what would you like to do to a person who cooks breakfast on saturday morning? Do you want to stone them or just encourage them to take the day off?
You are mistaken. Colossians 2:14 is about the Mosaic ordinances. That's dealing with unintentional transgression, e.g. Leviticus 15:30. It is not about the Decalogue. Paul taught Christians to keep the Decalogue, e.g. Ephesians 6:2.
We are taught to live holy lives, but we are not under the jurisdiction of the law as we are dead and the law has no power over a dead man. Furthermore, the Jewish council in acts did not mention sabbath keeping when deciding what aspects of the law a member of the body of CHrist was responsible to keep.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words,
subverting your souls,
saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
This is really quite simple. You are attempting to prove something that is patently false. There is no scriptural support for your position at all in any testament. WHat you have is a pile of conjecture mixed with a denial of clear scripture which you have compiled to place a yoke (vs 10 above) on the church. You are wrong.
