The Sabbath is a What?

[Jefferson]

The Sabbath is a What?

This is the show from Thursday January 24th, 2013

SUMMARY:



* Enjoy this Survey of the Bible's Teaching on the Sabbath: Bob Enyart directly addresses whether or not God requires people today to keep the Sabbath.

Some Christians, including Seventh Day Adventists and some Messianic Jews, teach that Christians should remember the Sabbath, rest, and not work on that day. In this program Bob presents the reasons why millions of Christians believe that the Bible teaches that God does not want today's Body of Christ (the Church) to keep the Sabbath.

BEL Flashback: Listen to Bob debate keeping the Sabbath with a Seventh Day Adventist caller.

Today’s Resources -- Sermons & The Plot: Bob Enyart's life's work is based on this observation: Grasping the overview of the Bible is the KEY to its DETAILS. It's available in a soft-cover book titled The Plot, and in a downloadable pdf version or both, and it's also available in an audio recording of Bob's Plot seminars! And have your kids or grand kids heard the The Plot Boys yet? In this homeschool friendly audio series for young people, Bob and two young boys, Stephen and Josh, teach through an overview of the Bible. This teaching is presented in a way that kids (and adults) can really understand, so it's a valuable foundation for a serious understanding of the story of the Bible. Also, consider ordering the entire Enyart Library! This invaluable resource will benefit your entire family or church and help support the ministry of Bob Enyart Live.



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[Doormat]

Bob,



You only briefly mentioned Genesis 2:3, but did not explain how your view can be true if that scripture is true.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

1. Is the seventh day still sanctified, or is the seventh day no longer sanctified? I believe the seventh day is still sanctified and holy.



Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

2. Was the sabbath made for Israel or for mankind? It was made for mankind, according to Jesus.

3. Do you believe Adam rested with God on the seventh day?



Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

4. Since Moses wrote Genesis 2:3, Genesis 26:5 and the Book of the Law, why should we not assume the sabbath commandment was among the commandments that Abraham kept?

 

[jeremysdemo]

The Sabbath is a What?

if we are to believe the Bible, it is a sign between God and Israel forever Exodus 31:17.

what does your Bible say? do you have this verse in it?

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Doormat]

if we are to believe the Bible, it is a sign between God and Israel forever Exodus 31:17.

That reminds me, in the show Bob mentions that Gentiles are "grafted in." If he means grafted into the olive tree Paul writes about in Romans, that is Israel. Unless he doesn't interpret the olive tree as Israel, he is necessarily a citizen of Israel and abiding in the King of Israel.

I would be interested to know if Denver Bible Church teaches members of Israel today should keep the sabbath or not keep it?

 

[jeremysdemo]

That reminds me, in the show Bob mentions that Gentiles are "grafted in." If he means grafted into the olive tree Paul writes about in Romans, that is Israel. Unless he doesn't interpret the olive tree as Israel, he is necessarily a citizen of Israel and abiding in the King of Israel.

I would be interested to know if Denver Bible Church teaches members of Israel today should keep the sabbath or not keep it?

We went went over this in a few threads but no one seems to be able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how forever ended and God's word came back void.

my explanation is He didn't lie, forever didn't end *pinch* yep still here, and people are not understanding how God's law is fulfilled under the New Covenant.

I think the Sabbath was in the Decalogue for a reason, was spoken by God directly to His people for a purpose, yet that seems to be the only part omitted with people whom agree with the New Covenant and God's law being written on our hearts, as if they agree with everything else God said but that.

it's almost comical to watch people whom claim to demonstrate so much logic get tripped up on this one point that doesn't add up, they wouldn't do the same for murder, theft, etc they wouldn't make a letter of the law argument for any of those parts of God's law.

Oh ye, of little faith, that God would not be fulfill His law in us, would not guide us into all righteousness, we must understand it intellectually and philosophically instead? lean on our own understanding?

there really is no moral understanding of the Sabbath, that's the catch God's law does not require our own purposes and understanding to be eternal and to be fulfilled, it only requires faith.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

Bob,

You only briefly mentioned Genesis 2:3, but did not explain how your view can be true if that scripture is true.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

1. Is the seventh day still sanctified, or is the seventh day no longer sanctified? I believe the seventh day is still sanctified and holy.

The day is still sanctified. But where does sanctified = need to religiously observe?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

2. Was the sabbath made for Israel or for mankind? It was made for mankind, according to Jesus.

Jesus didn't say mankind. he said man. The point was that God made the sabbath for man, He didn't make man to observe to sabbath. That doesn't change the fact that the religious observance of that day was strictly instituted under Moses and that it was to be for a sign between God and Israel.

3. Do you believe Adam rested with God on the seventh day?

Yes, he didn't have anything else to do. There was no work and food was readily and freely abundant.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

4. Since Moses wrote Genesis 2:3, Genesis 26:5 and the Book of the Law, why should we not assume the sabbath commandment was among the commandments that Abraham kept?

You should never assume when the bible speaks clearly enough. WE have a clear declaration that the sabbath OBSERVANCE as laid out by Moses was strictly for them. That does not mean the day is not still sanctified, but the detailed method of religious observance was and is strictly for the Jew.

 

[jeremysdemo]

You should never assume when the bible speaks clearly enough. WE have a clear declaration that the sabbath OBSERVANCE as laid out by Moses was strictly for them.

God spoke the commandment directly to the people,

how again was that laid out by Moses?

That does not mean the day is not still sanctified, but the detailed method of religious observance was and is strictly for the Jew.

Jesus did not agree with what some would call "the detailed method of religious observance" and taught the proper way to keep the Sabbath which was not legalistic, he did not agree that type of Sabbath observance was for the Jews, he interpreted it quite differently.

Do you need all the examples in the NT of what he did on the Sabbath that would not be approved by strict adherence to the "religious observance of the Jews"? or are you familiar with the NT?

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Doormat]

1. Is the seventh day still sanctified, or is the seventh day no longer sanctified?

The day is still sanctified.

For what purpose?

But where does sanctified = need to religiously observe?

Do you treat what is holy as common?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

2. Was the sabbath made for Israel or for mankind? It was made for mankind, according to Jesus.

Jesus didn't say mankind. he said man.

You are mistaken.

444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

The point was that God made the sabbath for man, He didn't make man to observe to sabbath.

Do you concede that Jesus said the sabbath was made for mankind, not specifically Israel?

3. Do you believe Adam rested with God on the seventh day?

Yes ...

So far you claim to believe the seventh day is still sanctified and that Adam rested on the seventh day. That Adam rested on the seventh day is evidence that the sabbath was made for mankind and could be kept without observing a law.

...he didn't have anything else to do. There was no work and food was readily and freely abundant.

You are mistaken.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

WE have a clear declaration that the sabbath OBSERVANCE as laid out by Moses was strictly for them.

Adam remembered the sabbath and rested without the law.

That does not mean the day is not still sanctified, but the detailed method of religious observance was and is strictly for the Jew.

1. Do you believe those who are part of God's nation of Israel today are obligated to keep the seventh day sabbath?

2. If you were grafted onto the olive tree as Paul claimed, what does that olive tree symbolically represent?

 

[jeremysdemo]

Adam remembered the sabbath and rested without the law.

good point he followed the example of His daddy,

the Law of Moses was added because of transgression (sin) according to Paul, Galatians 3:19, but God's law (what God did since he was righteous,holy) was always there as an example.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Jacob]

The sabbath is a day where we rest from our labors / work.

 

[sky.]

It WAS a wall of partition. Now the Gentiles are part of the Olive Tree.

 

[keypurr]

This is from GOD:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Why was this more important than Thou shall not kill?

 

[renew]

Hebrews 4

King James Version (KJV)

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

 

[Choleric]

For what purpose?

because it is holy. It is a type of the millenium and a type of the rest we have in Christ.

Do you treat what is holy as common?

I esteem all days alike. (Rom 14)

You are mistaken.

444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

The point is that the Jews had turned the sabbath on its' head and made it so that the Jew was a servant to the sabbath while God made the sabbath for man's benefit. The object of the sabbath was not the sabbath, but man.

Do you concede that Jesus said the sabbath was made for mankind, not specifically Israel?

The sabbath, yes, the religious observance as laid out by Moses was only for the Jew.

So far you claim to believe the seventh day is still sanctified and that Adam rested on the seventh day. That Adam rested on the seventh day is evidence that the sabbath was made for mankind and could be kept without observing a law.

You can keep it if you like, as Romans 14 states. you have the choice. Since we agree there is no law to observe it, you are under no obligation.

You are mistaken.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

On the first day, there was no work. Adam rested. That is in the bible.

Adam remembered the sabbath and rested without the law.

Right, he was under no obligation to observe it.

1. Do you believe those who are part of God's nation of Israel today are obligated to keep the seventh day sabbath?

no, they are under an obligation to repent and believe the gospel:

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

2. If you were grafted onto the olive tree as Paul claimed, what does that olive tree symbolically represent?

The olive tree is representative of God's blessing. The Fig tree is representative of Israel.

 

[jeremysdemo]

there he goes with that laid out by Moses thing again....

it doesn't just become true because you say it more than once...

So I guess Moses was there after creation, to lay out to God and Adam the Sabbath.

you doth maketh no sense.

Romans 14:5-6 Paul is speaking of ceremonial days that happen to fall on the Sabbath (which were a sign of the coming redeemer), not the Sabbath itself which was in existence long before the Law of Moses and which came before sin or ceremonial cleanliness laws began.

it's also interesting to note that the Sabbath was observed before the giving of the Law of Moses at Sinia, Exodus 16:5, 22, 23.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

there he goes with that laid out by Moses thing again....

It is in the bible

it doesn't just become true because you say it more than once...

but it does become true when God says it once.

So I guess Moses was there after creation, to lay out to God and Adam the Sabbath.

Moses was there to give the "law of Moses" the the nation of Israel. That is also in the bible.

you doth maketh no sense.

I understand the bible is hard for you to understand. Keep trying.

Romans 14:5-6 Paul is speaking of ceremonial days that happen to fall on the Sabbath (which were a sign of the coming redeemer), not the Sabbath itself which was in existence long before the Law of Moses and which came before sin or ceremonial cleanliness began.

Care to defend that assertion with Scripture?

Care to tell me how I am still under the law of moses which includes sabbath observance as laid out by moses? Or are you just making it up as you go?

 

[genuineoriginal]

* Enjoy this Survey of the Bible's Teaching on the Sabbath: Bob Enyart directly addresses whether or not God requires people today to keep the Sabbath.

Some Christians, including Seventh Day Adventists and some Messianic Jews, teach that Christians should remember the Sabbath, rest, and not work on that day. In this program Bob presents the reasons why millions of Christians believe that the Bible teaches that God does not want today's Body of Christ (the Church) to keep the Sabbath.

Bob has previously claimed that the failure to insist on the validity of the commandment against adultery has lead us down a slippery slope into the immorality rampant today.

Bob doesn't understand that the slippery slope starts with the failure to insist on the validity of the commandment about the Sabbath day.

Once you start claiming that any of the Ten Commandments is invalid, you have no grounds for claiming that any of the rest are valid.

 

[jeremysdemo]

It is in the bible



but it does become true when God says it once.



Moses was there to give the "law of Moses" the the nation of Israel. That is also in the bible.

but the Bible clearly says the Sabbath was observed by both God, Adam and the Judeans before the Law of Moses was written in a book, before sin even, and according to Paul the Law was added because of sin, Galatians 3:19, until the promised seed came, God's law, God's Sabbath was before the fall, before sin.

I understand the bible is hard for you to understand. Keep trying.

I'm hoping your argument is not that weak you have to resort to ad hominen instead of dealing with the scriptures give in Love

Romans 14:5-6 Paul is speaking of ceremonial days that happen to fall on the Sabbath (which were a sign of the coming redeemer), not the Sabbath itself which was in existence long before the Law of Moses and which came before sin or ceremonial cleanliness began.

Care to defend that assertion with Scripture?

I did, it's in my last post which was edited after the fact.
I'll give you a chance to read it in it's entirety, if you still have any questions after that I do my best to provide the needed passages.

Care to tell me how I am still under the law of moses which includes sabbath observance as laid out by moses? Or are you just making it up as you go?

the parts Moses explained about the Sabbath concern ritual cleanliness, and other laws that were abrogated with the destruction of the Temple that Jesus prophesied over.

As the Bible shows Adam rested on the Sabbath, God rested on the Sabbath, and the Judeans rested on the Sabbath before God gave those instructions to Moses specifically for the sacrificial and cleanliness instructions written in the Law of Moses for the Sabbath and other holy days of observance.

I'd rather not us spin our wheels on this, but you have a chance to look at what scriptures were provided and draw your own conclusion, as I said before if you still have concerns we can proceed with more.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[genuineoriginal]

but the Bible clearly says the Sabbath was observed by both God, Adam and the Judeans
. . .

and the Judeans rested on the Sabbath before God gave those instructions to Moses

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were Hebrews.
Judah was Jacob's son, and Judeans are named after the kingdom of the tribe of Judah that began after the death of Solomon.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were Hebrews.
Judah was Jacob's son, and Judeans are named after the kingdom of the tribe of Judah that began after the death of Solomon.

when I say Judeans I mean pre-law of Moses Hebrews (as you called them), idol worshipers Exodus 32:19, as later popularized by cults of Judea in the time of David, but existed in Exodus as well.

Jews or Hebrews to me define a people that adhere to Mishna which at this time (what we are discussing pre-law of Moses groups) did not yet exist.

keep shinin

jerm