ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.

[Cross Reference]

Absolutely,

Being caught up unto God and His throne is being given a position of authority through an anointing rather than any change of physical location let alone being taken off of the earth.

This event is played out in prophecy in multiple scenes throughout the Bible that is of the remnant of chosen from the many who are called. (the same as is the male child from the woman )

Also as the taking of Zion that was the 3rd and final anointing of David by God who completes His work in "3".

Another time can be seen in prophecy through the first miracle of Jesus when he changed the water to wine that is symbolic of the life of Christ........... It was a wedding on the third day when there were 6 (number of man) waterpots for cleansing the Jews (earthen vessels like us prepared to help our brothers and sisters in Christ as we "wash God's feet" who are the rest of the BOC on earth who still need to learn the truth) filled to the brim with water of the word that is Spirit with no room for anything else in us but His Word.

Then it gets changed to wine that is the blood representing His Life who is at the right hand of God just as in Rev:12:5.

All of the above is about the sons of God having the fulness of God appearing in them the same as it was in Jesus

See what Jesus says about them here and then compare this passage with yours in Rev.12:5

Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star. (Jesus is the "morning star" and He will make these sons of God to be just like Him yet still subject to Him)

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

I know when Christians get the revelation that takes them from the "rapture" as taught in todays church, and in its place gives them the truth of the manifestation of the sons of God on earth, they take a giant leap forward in their relationship with God our Father

I would be very happy to see this happen to you as would the angels in heaven

<Uhh> Please forget I asked.

 

[fzappa13]

You must remember there is more than one heaven. Satan is not allowed into the one where God resides. Think of the one per Job 1.

Where do you think God, the sons of God and Satan were when conversing in Job 1 and why?

 

[Cross Reference]

Where do you think God, the sons of God and Satan were when conversing in Job 1 and why?

Before I answer permit me to ask you to refresh your thinking about the scriptures that speak of what we, as Christians, wrestle against __ and where our battle takes place?

 

[fzappa13]

Before I answer permit me to ask you to refresh your thinking about the scriptures that speak of what we, as Christians, wrestle against __ and where our battle takes place?

OK

 

[Cross Reference]

OK

When you are ready, let me know.

 

[fzappa13]

Fire away.

 

[Cross Reference]

Fire away.

God is in heaven. Apparently it is the third heaven where Paul saw somethings he didn't have words to express. Does Satan have access to that heaven-paradise? In fact, did he ever have access to any paradise either in the abode of the dead, Abraham's bosom, before the cross or the paradise of heaven where God dwells from which, when he was called Lucifer, was kicked out of?

 

[fzappa13]

God is in heaven.

Check

Apparently it is the third heaven where Paul saw somethings he didn't have words to express. Does Satan have access to that heaven-paradise? In fact, did he ever have access to any paradise

Although I am familiar with the passage in 2 Cor that you appear to be referencing it does not indicate that this is the abode of God. Indeed,when one references the Septuagint this word translated “paradise” here is also translated as the “garden of Eden” in Genesis and it would appear that both Satan and God had access to it. You will recall that Adam and Eve were given the boot but not so the Serpent. BTW, Paul did not see this paradise but indicated that he knew a man who did.

... either in the abode of the dead, Abraham's bosom, before the cross or the paradise of heaven where God dwells from which, when he was called Lucifer, was kicked out of?

I know of no scripture that indicates that Satan has access to hell just yet but I am familiar with verses that indicate he is scheduled for residency there. I am also unaware of any scripture that indicates that he has been kicked out of heaven yet and I have noted that you offer none. Revelation contains the most extensive treatment of the subject and it refers to the entity in question as Satan, not Lucifer. I think that distinction important but that is likely fodder for a different thread.

It might also be worth noting that the sky/atmosphere is referred to as the heavens and Satan is referred to at one point as the “prince of the powers of the air” so it would be difficult to argue he doesn't have access to it. The location of the stars is also referred to as heaven as well. The heaven that contains God's throne would appear to be yet another location/dimension that man can neither observe nor enter (Revelation 6 : 9-11 being the lone brief exception) and it is this heaven that would appear to be referenced in Revelation. I find no scripture nor convincing argument that John wrote in the future tense concerning a matter that had already transpired and so I must respectfully disagree with your assessment sans some scriptures that would indicate otherwise.

 

[Cross Reference]

Check

Although I am familiar with the passage in 2 Cor that you appear to be referencing it does not indicate that this is the abode of God.

Unless you have an agenda, it most certainly does insofar as Satan is not allowed in.

Indeed,when one references the Septuagint this word translated “paradise” here is also translated as the “garden of Eden” in Genesis and it would appear that both Satan and God had access to it. You will recall that Adam and Eve were given the boot but not so the Serpent.

Though it was paradise, the paradise of Eden was never heaven.

I know of no scripture that indicates that Satan has access to hell just yet but I am familiar with verses that indicate he is scheduled for residency there.

Never said he did.

I am also unaware of any scripture that indicates that he has been kicked out of heaven yet and I have noted that you offer none.

I have been waiting on you to reveal your opinion; what you are presently revealing.

Revelation contains the most extensive treatment of the subject and it refers to the entity in question as Satan, not Lucifer. I think that distinction important but that is likely fodder for a different thread.

True enough, however, I never inferred any ambiguity.

It might also be worth noting that the sky/atmosphere is referred to as the heavens and Satan is referred to at one point as the “prince of the powers of the air” so it would be difficult to argue he doesn't have access to it.

And that is where the battle will eventually take place per Revelation 12:7–11 (KJV 1900) "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8*And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9*And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10*And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11*And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

The location of the stars is also referred to as heaven as well. The heaven that contains God's throne would appear to be yet another location/dimension that man can neither observe nor enter (Revelation 6 : 9-11 being the lone brief exception) and it is this heaven that would appear to be referenced in Revelation. I find no scripture nor convincing argument that John wrote in the future tense concerning a matter that had already transpired an so I must respectfully disagree with your assessment sans some scriptures that would indicate otherwise.

I hope what I posited will help remedy that error.

 

[fzappa13]

It might also be worth noting that the sky/atmosphere is referred to as the heavens and Satan is referred to at one point as the “prince of the powers of the air” so it would be difficult to argue he doesn't have access to it.

And that is where the battle will eventually take place per Revelation 12:7–11 (KJV 1900) "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8*And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9*And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10*And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11*And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

The Greek word translated here as "heaven" is G 3772 in the
Strong's "Ouranos"

The word previously mentioned that is mostly translated as "air" is G109 in the Strong's "aer".

There usage in the N.T. is very consistent and would seem to indicate they are two different things. Satan is kicked out of the former while those that are Christ's are caught up to meet him in the latter according to the Greek texts.

 

[Cross Reference]

The Greek word translated here as "heaven" is G 3772 in the
Strong's "Ouranos"

The word previously mentioned that is mostly translated as "air" is G109 in the Strong's "aer".

There usage in the N.T. is very consistent and would seem to indicate they are two different things. Satan is kicked out of the former while those that are Christ's are caught up to meet him in the latter according to the Greek texts.

One of the rules for understanding anything written is to let it say what it says. If anyone has an agenda, it is the first rule that is violated.

Park your Greek and remember with whom and where we presently do our spiritual wrestling. Go from there to sort out the remainder of the posited scripture. Read more of the chapter. It will help.

 

[OCTOBER23]

JESUS said that he is going to go and PREPARE A PLACE FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM

in HIS FATHERS MANSION - the NEW JERUSALEM

REV. 12 The Philidelphian Church goes to a PLACE PREPARED BY JESUS / GOD

JUST BEFORE SATAN COMES DOWN BUT THE Laodiceans go up after a little

persecution because JESUS SPITS THEM FORWARD OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

Since the 7 year Tribulation starts in 2017 then the Rapture of the

Philidelphians starts in 2017 + 31/2 years = Passover of 2021.

 

[fzappa13]

One of the rules for understanding anything written is to let it say what it says. If anyone has an agenda, it is the first rule that is violated.

I agree. Which leads me to wonder what agenda has you ignoring the plain meaning of these two words.

Park your Greek and remember with whom and where we presently do our spiritual wrestling. Go from there to sort out the remainder of the posited scripture. Read more of the chapter. It will help.

Funny you should say that:

Eph 6:12

For G3754 we G2254 wrestle G3823 not G3756 against G2076 G4314 flesh G4561 and G2532 blood, G129 but G235 against G4314 principalities, G746 against G4314 powers, G1849 against G4314 the rulers G2888 of the darkness G4655 of this G5127 world, G165 against G4314 spiritual G4152 wickedness G4189 in G1722 high G2032 places.



G2032 "epouranios"



existing in heaven

things that take place in heaven

the heavenly regions

heaven itself, the abode of God and angels

the lower heavens, of the stars

the heavens, of the clouds

the heavenly temple or sanctuary

of heavenly origin or nature

 

[Cross Reference]

I agree. Which leads me to wonder what agenda has you ignoring the plain meaning of these two words.



Funny you should say that:

Eph 6:12

For G3754 we G2254 wrestle G3823 not G3756 against G2076 G4314 flesh G4561 and G2532 blood, G129 but G235 against G4314 principalities, G746 against G4314 powers, G1849 against G4314 the rulers G2888 of the darkness G4655 of this G5127 world, G165 against G4314 spiritual G4152 wickedness G4189 in G1722 high G2032 places.



G2032 "epouranios"



existing in heaven

things that take place in heaven

the heavenly regions

heaven itself, the abode of God and angels

the lower heavens, of the stars

the heavens, of the clouds

the heavenly temple or sanctuary

of heavenly origin or nature

Everything I wrote should begin to satisfy anyone without an agenda. I stand by my thinking by the scripture and references to others, I have posited. Maybe you just need to review them instead of going off on tangent thinking that leads nowhere.

 

[Sheila B]

1 Corinthians 15:51 NASB - Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 NASB - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 NASB - For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 NASB - But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

-red highlights-
The soul is immortal, therefore this is perhaps addressing only material creation that can perish and corrupt.

 

[Jacob]

-red highlights-
The soul is immortal, therefore this is perhaps addressing only material creation that can perish and corrupt.

We are all mortal. Only those who are resurrected among the righteous will be able to say they have put on immortality.

 

[Sheila B]

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Perfect! These verses explain my thoughts on the matter:
1) souls have been in heaven since Christ's ascension
1a) OT souls were taken with Christ at His ascension and after he "preached to the spirits in prison" where they awaited their deliverer
1b) Christ opened the Gate of heaven to humans (the torn Temple curtain symbolized this victory)
2) the 1000 year reign began when Christ accepted the Kingdom (the vision of Daniel 7)
3) souls of OT and NT (saints) are ruling/ have ruled/ will rule
until the end of the age
4) there were/are/will be actual thrones and a priestly assembly in heaven until the end of the age

What will be after all these times and seasons, has not been revealed.

 

[Sheila B]

Do you believe satan has already been cast out of heaven? I don't know, but that is what I think.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan: Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD and said: From going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down in it.

Satan had access to heaven. That is why he is said to be cast down to earth.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 and prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven.

 

[Sheila B]

When you learn that heaven describes a righteous relationship with God that allows us in His presence and not a physical place where God lives you will have made a significant improvement

After all, why do you think Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom of Heaven to come to earth if it was not possible?

It seems to me that heaven is far more than a "relationship" since Hebrews 12:22-24 describes a festal gathering that is concurrent with our existence.

Perhaps these layered dimensions of reality will be healed, that is, when the age to come (the age that is coming- another translation) and the present age are One,
since time will be no more...
they become One dimension. Eternal Now.

 

[Cross Reference]

We are all mortal. Only those who are resurrected among the righteous will be able to say they have put on immortality.

The soul cannot materially die therefore it must reside somewhere upon the death the body. If in God then with God it will reside. To the contrary will it be with it if not in God. Speak to the extremes in this because where God isn't is complete darkness and all the terror that can be imagined or not.