ECT The Real Most Miisunderstood Passage in the Bible John 3

glorydaz

Well-known member
So do you think that the words "born again" used by the Lord Jesus mean something entirely different from the way that Peter used the same words?

I'll be honest with you, Jerry. I'm seeing this from a new perspective. When I read the entire chapter, I see Peter is talking about what is reserved in heaven for those who believe.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,​

He continues to go back to the topic of the resurrection. I think he may be referring to what Jesus is speaking of here.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.​

I'm still considering the chapter as a whole...trying not to read too much into the one verse.

I'd love to hear what you're seeing.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I'd love to hear what you're seeing.

Let us look at this passage:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you"
(1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Here the Greek word translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense. This passage cannot be referring to the resurrection of the body which will happen in the future.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Let us look at this passage:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you"
(1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Here the Greek word translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense. This passage cannot be referring to the resurrection of the body which will happen in the future.

By way of explanation of what he is talking about perhaps?

He's clearly talking about the future hope throughout the chapter. He even adds this afterwards. "For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:"

He seems to do the same with the verb tense in these verses.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.​
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
By way of explanation of what he is talking about perhaps?

Let us look at the passage again:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Again, the Greek word translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense. In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

The believers to whom Peter addressed his words were born again at the time when they believed the gospel, i.e. it happened in actual time. And the gospel of which he spoke makes it plain that they were already redeemed:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

Although there are places in Peter's first epistle which speak of future events I cannot see how it is possible that either of the two passages which I quoted are referring to things which remain in the future.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Perhaps they are both talking about future events.

Peter says "being born again" and not "have been born again".

Peter used the "present" tense and not the "future" tense. If he was speaking about something which will happen in the future then he would have used the "future" tense.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Then they are clearly not talking about the exact same thing then, are they?

Why?

Do you not think that the Jews were being born again when they believed, especially considering what the Lord Jesus said here?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

According to the Lord Jesus no one can see the kingdom, much less enter it, unless he is born of again (Jn.3:3). We know that Abraham will enter the kingdom so he must have been born again before the Lord Jesus walked the earth.

So I believe that people were born again before the Lord Jesus walked the earth and at the time He walked the earth and are being born again now.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Why?

Do you not think that the Jews were being born again when they believed, especially considering what the Lord Jesus said here?:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

According to the Lord Jesus no one can see the kingdom, much less enter it, unless he is born of again (Jn.3:3). We know that Abraham will enter the kingdom so he must have been born again before the Lord Jesus walked the earth.
You Jerry, you're making a mistake here. Nowhere are we told that Abraham WAS "born again". You are putting the cart before the horse here.

So I believe that people were born again before the Lord Jesus walked the earth and at the time He walked the earth and are being born again now.
You are confusing different aspects of the spirit Jerry.

Jesus clearly, as Nick M has mentioned, showed the context of what He was talking about in John 3.
John 3:7-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Peter never came and went "like the wind". Only the resurrected LORD Jesus Christ did that.
Luke 24:31 (AKJV/PCE)
(24:31) And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Luke 24:36-37 (AKJV/PCE)
(24:36) ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. (24:37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

These are the things that John 8 is talking about.
 

Danoh

New member
I'll be honest with you, Jerry. I'm seeing this from a new perspective. When I read the entire chapter, I see Peter is talking about what is reserved in heaven for those who believe.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,​

He continues to go back to the topic of the resurrection. I think he may be referring to what Jesus is speaking of here.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.​

I'm still considering the chapter as a whole...trying not to read too much into the one verse.

I'd love to hear what you're seeing.

Two issues to consider in both aspects of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery (at least as I understand them)...

Are the difference between the inheritance itself, and the reward of the inheritance.

One is eternal life.

The other is said eternal life's purpose, or privilege.

Spoiler


As with a position one is hired for.

One is not simply hired (saved) rather, one is hired (saved) unto, for, or towards, a specific purpose, or function, in this case, as to or within, God's Overall Purpose; be it within the Prophetic, or within His Mystery aspect of His Purpose.

(Now watch some works based fool come out of the woodwork to respond to that analogy, from a views as wooden in its' literalism as the back woods they have crawled out of, lol)

Anyway, within His Prophetic Aspect of His Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery, a passage like Matthew 19:28, would be the issue of the reward of their internal inheritance.

Not of their inheritance, but of its' reward, or intended privilege.

Their Election of Grace: which is the issue of Service; the issue of His Purpose in calling and saving them, as Israelites, to begin with.

Which is what this passage that follows, is about...

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Because God has a purpose in His Son in an agency comprised of a race of people known as Israelites (meaning sons of Jacob), He will never completely destroy that nation.

What is this purpose, reward that is tied to their eternal life, in those of them who believe on Him?

The privilege of serving Him in HIS purpose.

Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Which speaks of the Son one day working in the believing sons of Jacob.

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Again, both the Son, and ye sons of Jacob, are in view.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

The Seed one day making possible God's purpose in those of Jacob's mulitplied seed, who believe.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The reward of said inheritance? Of their eternal life?

Its' privilege?

Their Priesthood as their Privilege - in - the - land Promised, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

As for that inheritance being referred to in 1 Peter?

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

What righteousness is that?

That righteousness that Nicodemas had failed in.

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

What righteousness was it that was theirs? How was it accessed, or made theirs.

By believing the Law and the Prophets by taking the Lord at His Word...

John is actually a sequal to and commentary on, the Law and the Prophets...

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. 1:44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Believing He was the Christ, gave them eternal life.

And said eternal life has a reward or privilege: each their place within His coming kingdom. Amen for them!

Amen concerning...the Israel OF GOD!

Much can be learned from their aspect of things, about ours.

Same principle, different application.

An inheritance.

And also, its' reward, or privilege.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You Jerry, you're making a mistake here. Nowhere are we told that Abraham WAS "born again". You are putting the cart before the horse here.

Are you trying to argue that no one was born again or born of the Spirit at the time when the Lord Jesus walked the earth despite what He said here?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

You are confusing different aspects of the spirit Jerry.

Jesus clearly, as Nick M has mentioned, showed the context of what He was talking about in John 3.
John 3:7-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Peter never came and went "like the wind". Only the resurrected LORD Jesus Christ did that.

Previously the Lord had been speaking of an individual's regeneration but He now begins to speak of the nation of Israel's regeneration. The Lord shifts from using the second person "singular" pronoun "you" to the second person "plural":

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:7-8).

A footnote in the NIV at verse seven says, "The Greek is plural."

Nicodemus still not understand so he asked, "How can these things be?"

By the Lord's reply we can understand that Nicodemus should have been aware of some truth in the OT Scriptures which spoke of a regeneration by the Spirit: "Art thou a teacher of Israel, and knoweth not these things?" (v.10).

Nicodemus should have been aware of the prophecies that speak of the blessings of the New Covenant promised to the nation of Israel. In the thirty-sixth chapter of Ezekiel we see "water" being sprinkled on that nation and the Lord putting His Spirit within that nation (Ez.36:25,27).

Then in the very next chapter we see verses describing the regeneration of the nation of Israel, and these same verses use similar language about the "wind":

"This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army..." (Ez.37: 9-10).​

The Lord Jesus was employing a "type" in regard to the regeneration of Israel to illustrate the truth about an individual's regeneration
 

Danoh

New member
You Jerry, you're making a mistake here. Nowhere are we told that Abraham WAS "born again". You are putting the cart before the horse here.


You are confusing different aspects of the spirit Jerry.

Jesus clearly, as Nick M has mentioned, showed the context of what He was talking about in John 3.
John 3:7-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Peter never came and went "like the wind". Only the resurrected LORD Jesus Christ did that.
Luke 24:31 (AKJV/PCE)
(24:31) And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Luke 24:36-37 (AKJV/PCE)
(24:36) ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you. (24:37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

These are the things that John 8 is talking about.

Consider, bro, that it would have made no sense for Him to have been speaking about being born of the Spirit in that way - their kingdom is physical literal.

He Himself defined "shall not see" as having been a reference to physical literal reality "shall not enter."

It is the Body of Christ that is spiritual literal.

Now we know no man after the flesh.

Whereas they had been able to poke their physical fingers into His equally physical...wounds.

Things that differ...are not the same.

He was addressing Nicodemas' having failed to simply take Him at His Word, in his failure to physically see Who He Was.

That He was not simply a man sent from God "a Prophet."

Rather that; as had clearly been evidenced by His very physical literal miracles; He was the Son of God come down from Heaven and Nicodemas should have known that from His miracles.

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Nicodemas should have known He was more than a man sent from God.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And that born again resulted when an Israelite believed the Law and the Prophets that Jesus was the Christ.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Verse 51 being yet future for that nation, and is physical literal.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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Peter used the "present" tense and not the "future" tense. If he was speaking about something which will happen in the future then he would have used the "future" tense.

This is where Dan P comes in. Or Bob Hill...who can't.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
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It is the Body of Christ that is spiritual literal.

Now we know no man after the flesh.

Flesh and blood together do not inherit the kingdom. Life will come from the Spirit, not the blood. Sorry, Dracula. We know he had flesh and was solid physically after his resurrection. The description given in verse 8 has not been "explained away".
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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Let us look at this passage:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you"
(1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Here the Greek word translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense. This passage cannot be referring to the resurrection of the body which will happen in the future.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Already happened.
Same as he started this letter with.


1 Peter 1:3 KJV
(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
 

Danoh

New member
Flesh and blood together do not inherit the kingdom. Life will come from the Spirit, not the blood. Sorry, Dracula. We know he had flesh and was solid physically after his resurrection. The description given in verse 8 has not been "explained away".


Their kingdom is physical.

You are reading 1 Cor. 15's Heaven into their Kingdom on Earth.

What the Lord was doing was reprimanding Nico as to the following righteousness of faith...

Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

That aspect of that BEFORE His dbr.
 

Danoh

New member
This is where Dan P comes in. Or Bob Hill...who can't.

The reason you hold to your erroneous hybrid of Acts 9/Acts 28, is a simple one.

You are clueless of what the various rules of grammar are, and how intended meaning is communicted by words, through said rules.

It is why you have turned the KJV into an idol, and by that, have so made it of none effect.

The translators were well aware of what you are clearly not.

That because some rules of Grammar differ in Hebrew, and in Aramaic, and in THEIR EARLY Modern English, they would first have to strive to ever keep those rules in mind.

This is why you and yours screw up on various passages just like the 28ers do.

You fail to consider why one is taught rules of Grammar up until fourth year of High School.

This is why both your wording and your reading is so poor, Nick.

Put your Bible away for awhile and go back to a good primer on rules of Grammar.
 

Danoh

New member
[MENTION=8445]DAN P[/MENTION]

Jerry, it appears Nick is one of those who apparantly did not do very well at all in Elementary, let alone in the more advanced, High School Grammar :chuckle:

Never mind that wording as seemingly simple as it appears only on its surface as, say, Acts 15:11's "shall be saved" is a verb in the aorist tense, infinitive mood, passive voice - the guy clearly ends up in the dark at the word "verb." :D
 
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