ECT The Real Most Miisunderstood Passage in the Bible John 3

[Nick M]

Paul said we in Christ are a new creation. That isn't what the Lord said to Nicodemus. He said you have to be born twice. There are 2 important things here, and they are almost always not covered, unless StP steps in and points it out to you.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

By the way, Nicodemus's follow up question was spot on. He was openly mocked by the Lord Jesus Christ, whom was a genuine truth smacker. He was a teacher of Israel (like Interplanner) and knew not those things. The Lord Jesus Christ apeared from behind locked doors, vanished from their sight. They didn't know where he came from or where he went.

Let's debate. John 3:16 is often rolled into it.

 

[jamie]

Let's debate.

Jesus claimed, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

This verse is misleading because the same Greek word is used for born and for begotten. To be born a person must first be begotten (conceived).

Baptism is not a birth, it's a begettal, a change from flesh to Spirit. (Romans 8:9)

To be born of the Spirit we must first be begotten by the Spirit so as to be born of the Spirit at Christ's appearing.

 

[Nick M]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Like commentaries, you ignore the Bible when it explains something.

 

[jamie]

It went over your head, didn't it?

 

[daqq]

Paul said we in Christ are a new creation. That isn't what the Lord said to Nicodemus. He said you have to be born twice. There are 2 important things here, and they are almost always not covered, unless StP steps in and points it out to you.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

By the way, Nicodemus's follow up question was spot on. He was openly mocked by the Lord Jesus Christ, whom was a genuine truth smacker. He was a teacher of Israel (like Interplanner) and knew not those things. The Lord Jesus Christ apeared from behind locked doors, vanished from their sight. They didn't know where he came from or where he went.

Let's debate. John 3:16 is often rolled into it.

The answer to Nicodemus begins with "Amen, amen", which is a double affirmation, and therefore means, "Yes! amen, you must go back into the womb of your mother and be regenerated-reborn", for that was the question which Nicodemus had asked. Only then what follows in the passage goes into what the Master says after the initial response to the question. Nicodemus also clearly understood this response; and thus it was not a "truth smack" which Nicodemus did not understand, but rather, an eye-opening event where Nicodemus understood who his mother was in this context even though the OP does not, even though the OP himself has the writings of Paul, (Jerusalem of above is the mother-covenant of us all as Paul himself explains in Gal 4:22-31). Therefore Nicodemus understood that he was required to go back and relearn the entire primary covenant in the new light of the Testimony of the Master, and he surely did; for no Pharisee Archon Teacher of the people would defile himself with a dead body during the week of Pesakh-Matzot, knowing that he would be legally and ceremonially defiled for seven days, unless he truly loved that one who had died, (John 19:39-40). And Paul teaches the same and means the same when he states the following:

Galatians 1:13-17 KJV
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

The womb of his mother in this case is no doubt Jerusalem of above and he means the same when he says something similar to Timothy in the following passage:

2 Timothy 3:15 ASV
14 But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 and that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

That is to say, "from a babe, from the time when Elohim called you forth from the womb of your mother", Jerusalem of above, which is our primary mother-covenant, the mother-covenant of us all; it is the same allegory of the two covenants from Galatians 4:22-31. The two covenants are really the same primary covenant but viewed through two different sets of eyes: those who see all things according to the eyes and mind of the natural carnal man of the flesh, just as the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Jews did at the advent of Messiah and most still do to this day; and the other are those who rather see through the lenses of the new Spirit foretold in Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, and 36:26, which is the new Spirit-Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts, (for his Testimony is Spirit), and which expounds the Torah and Prophets to the full so that we might walk in those things in the new supernal and spiritual way taught by Messiah, becoming pleasing to the Father by way of the Testimony of His Son.

 

[jamie]

:thumb: We have the same Spirit Father and mother as our brother Jesus.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

After hearing the Lord say those words Nicodemus asked how he could be born again when he is old, and the Lord Jesus said:

"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit" (Jn.3:5-6).​

Previously the Lord had been speaking of an individual's regeneration but He now begins to speak of the nation of Israel's regeneration. The Lord shifts from using the second person "singular" pronoun "you" to the second person "plural":

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:7-8; NIV). [A footnote in the NIV at verse seven says, "The Greek is plural."]​

Nicodemus still did not understand, asking, "How can these things be?"

By the Lord's reply we can understand that Nicodemus should have been aware of some truth in the OT Scriptures which spoke of a regeneration by the Spirit: "Art thou a teacher of Israel, and knoweth not these things?" (v.10).

Sir Robert Anderson writes, "Here we must keep prominently in view that the truth involved ought to have been known to Nicodemus. 'Art thou the teacher of Israel, and knowest not these things?' the Lord exclaimed in indignant wonder at his ignorance. Therefore in speaking of the new birth by water and the Spirit the Lord referred to some distinctive truth of the Old Testament Scriptures, which ought to have been familiar to a Rabbi of the Sanhedrin" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], p.224).

Nicodemus should have been aware of the prophecies that speak of the corporate regeneration of Israel in the thirty-seventh chapter of the book of Ezekiel. There we see the prophet taken to a valley full of "dry bones" and these bones are described as "the whole house of Israel":

"The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones...Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts" (Ez.37:1,11).​

Then in the verses which follow we see the two elements which will be instrumental for the future corporate regeneration of Israel:

"Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause spirit to enter you, and you shall live" (Ezek.37:4-5; RSVCE).​

Here Sir Robert Anderson explains the "typical" teaching of the prophecy of the dry bones and how it relates to the teaching of the Lord Jesus to Nicodemus:

"How can sinners, helpless, hopeless, dead - as dead as dry bones scattered upon the earth - be born again to God. "Can these bones live?" is the question of Ezekiel 37: And the answer comes "Prophesy unto these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.' Preach to dead, lost sinners call upon them to hear the word of the Lord. This is man's part. Or if there be anything more, it is, 'Prophesy unto the Breath. Pray that the Spirit may breathe upon these slain that they may live.' The rest is God's work altogether, for 'the Spirit breathes where He wills.' Not that there is anything arbitrary in His working. God is never arbitrary; but He is always Sovereign. Men preach; the Spirit breathes; and the dry bones live. Thus it is that sinners are born again to God" (Anderson, Redemption Truths [Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 1980], pp.137-138).​

 

[daqq]

:thumb: We have the same Spirit Father and mother as our brother Jesus.

:thumb: Amen.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Like commentaries, you ignore the Bible when it explains something.

Indeed, no one could tell from whence the LORD cometh, or whither he went, after his resurrection.

 

[daqq]

After hearing the Lord say those words Nicodemus asked how he could be born again when he is old, and the Lord Jesus said:

"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit" (Jn.3:5-6).​

Previously the Lord had been speaking of an individual's regeneration but He now begins to speak of the nation of Israel's regeneration. The Lord shifts from using the second person "singular" pronoun "you" to the second person "plural":

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:7-8; NIV). [A footnote in the NIV at verse seven says, "The Greek is plural."]​

Nicodemus still did not understand, asking, "How can these things be?"

By the Lord's reply we can understand that Nicodemus should have been aware of some truth in the OT Scriptures which spoke of a regeneration by the Spirit: "Art thou a teacher of Israel, and knoweth not these things?" (v.10).

Sir Robert Anderson writes, "Here we must keep prominently in view that the truth involved ought to have been known to Nicodemus. 'Art thou the teacher of Israel, and knowest not these things?' the Lord exclaimed in indignant wonder at his ignorance. Therefore in speaking of the new birth by water and the Spirit the Lord referred to some distinctive truth of the Old Testament Scriptures, which ought to have been familiar to a Rabbi of the Sanhedrin" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], p.224).

Nicodemus should have been aware of the prophecies that speak of the corporate regeneration of Israel in the thirty-seventh chapter of the book of Ezekiel. There we see the prophet taken to a valley full of "dry bones" and these bones are described as "the whole house of Israel":

"The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones...Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts" (Ez.37:1,11).​

Then in the verses which follow we see the two elements which will be instrumental for the future corporate regeneration of Israel:

"Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause spirit to enter you, and you shall live" (Ezek.37:4-5; RSVCE).​

Here Sir Robert Anderson explains the "typical" teaching of the prophecy of the dry bones and how it relates to the teaching of the Lord Jesus to Nicodemus:

"How can sinners, helpless, hopeless, dead - as dead as dry bones scattered upon the earth - be born again to God. "Can these bones live?" is the question of Ezekiel 37: And the answer comes "Prophesy unto these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.' Preach to dead, lost sinners call upon them to hear the word of the Lord. This is man's part. Or if there be anything more, it is, 'Prophesy unto the Breath. Pray that the Spirit may breathe upon these slain that they may live.' The rest is God's work altogether, for 'the Spirit breathes where He wills.' Not that there is anything arbitrary in His working. God is never arbitrary; but He is always Sovereign. Men preach; the Spirit breathes; and the dry bones live. Thus it is that sinners are born again to God" (Anderson, Redemption Truths [Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 1980], pp.137-138).​

Rather than, "How can these things be", the response of Nicodemus is more appropriately, "How is it possible for these things to come to pass?" In other words he is not disbelieving but wondering how it is possible. And while the Master does say to him, "Ye (you all) do not receive our Testimony-Witness", it still does not mean that Nicodemus never understood because he clearly did and that is shown by his words, actions, and deeds, both later in the same Gospel account, (John 7:50-53), and at Golgotha, (John 19:39-42). Moreover the He and he are the Amen-amen in this passage, and that is why the Master says "we" and "our" in this same context, (which I will highlight below), and Rev 2:18 combined with Rev 3:14 informs the faithful as to which one is the Son of Elohim and which one is a Son of Elohim:

Yohanan 3:1-36
[01] Moreover, (during the same week of the feast of Pesakh Matzot from the previous chapter), there was a certain man from the Perushim, his name Nikodemo, Archon of the Yhudim:
[02] This one came to him by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a Teacher come from Elohim; for no one can do these signs which you do if not immo·El, (El is with him).
[03] Ι̅H answered and said to him, Amen-amen, I say to you, If one is not born from above the same cannot see the kingdom of Elohim.
[04] Nikodemo said to him, How can an old man be regenerated-reborn? can he enter a second time into the cavity of his mother and be regenerated-reborn?
[05] Ι̅H answered, Amen-amen, I say to you, If one is not regenerated by Water and Spirit the same cannot enter into the kingdom of Elohim, (thus the answer is, Yes-amen, one must go back into the cavity of his mother, that is, mother-covenant, and relearn all things: for Yerushalem above is our mother-covenant, Gal 4:22-27).
[06] That which generates from the flesh is flesh; and that which generates from the Spirit is Spirit.
[07] Wonder not that I said to you, You must be born from above:
[08] The Spirit blows wheresoever He wills, and you hear His voice, but you have not known from where He comes and to where He goes: thus is every one being generated out of Spirit.
[09] Nikodemo answered and said to him, What makes it possible for these things to come to pass?
[10] Ι̅H answered and said to him, You are the Teacher of Yisrael and do not know these things?
[11] Amen-amen, I say to you, We speak that which we know, and we testify of that which we have seen; and our testimony you do not receive, (for He and he are the Amen-amen).
[12] If I told you earthly things and you believe not; how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
[13] And no one has ascended into the heavens if the one who is from the heavens has not descended: the Son of Man.
[14] And just as Moshe lifted up the Seraph in the desert, in the same way must the Son of Man be lifted-up-exalted:
[15] That all who put their trust in him may have life aionion.
[16] For in this manner Elohim so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten one of a kind Son; that all who put their trust in him should not perish, but have life aionion.
[17] For Elohim sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world through him might be delivered.
[18] The one trusting him is not judged; but the one not trusting is judged already because the same is not trusting in the name of the only begotten one of a kind Son of Elohim.
[19] Moreover this is the judgment; that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
[20] For anyone practicing wickedness hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his works should be reproved.
[21] But the one doing the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest, that his works are engaged with Elohim.
[22] Amidst these things Ι̅H and his talmidim had come into the land of Yhudah; and he was wearing through the time there with them, and immersing.
[23] Moreover Yohanan also was immersing in Aenon, next to Saleim, (that is, Shiloh), because there was much water there: and they came and immersed:
[24] For Yohanan was not yet cast into prison.
[25] There came up therefore a mutual disputation of the talmidim of Yohanan with a certain Yhudi concerning purification.
[26] And they came to Yohanan, and said to him, Rabbi, he who was with you on the other side of the Yarden, he of whom you have testified; behold, the same is now immersing and all go to him!
[27] Yohanan answered and said, A man can receive nothing if it is not given him from the heavens.
[28] You yourselves bear me witness that I said, I am not the Meshiah, but that I am sent before in front of that one.
[29] The one having the bride is the groom; but the friend of the groom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the voice of the groom: this therefore my joy is fulfilled.
[30] That one must increase, but I myself must decrease.
[31] The one coming from above is over all; the one being from the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaks; the one coming from the heavens is over all:
[32] What he has seen and heard, of that he testifies, and no one else will receive his testimony:
[33] The one therefore accepting his testimony has set his seal that Elohim is true.
[34] For the one whom Elohim has sent speaks the words of Elohim, for He does not give the Spirit by measure:
[35] The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.
[36] The one faithfully trusting into the Son has life aionion; but the one not faithfully trusting into the Son shall not see life, contrariwise, the wrath of Elohim abides upon him.

Yes, perhaps it is the most misunderstood passage in all of Christianity.

 

[Nick M]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[daqq]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

That is debatable because the word rendered "wind" is pneuma, (typically spirit).

John 3:8 YLT
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

 

[Nick M]

That is debatable because the word rendered "wind" is pneuma, (typically spirit).

John 3:8 YLT
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

What an idiot thing to say. According you, the translation is the Spirit goes like the Spirit. That isn't a comparison. That is like saying pizza tastes like pizza to somebody who has never had it. You pathetic liar.

 

[daqq]

What an idiot thing to say. According you, the translation is the Spirit goes like the Spirit. That isn't a comparison. That is like saying pizza tastes like pizza to somebody who has never had it. You pathetic liar.

Pathetic liar? That was not my translation I quoted, and what I said is true; and you run into the same problem in Rev 13:15 even though you are probably completely ignorant of that fact, as well as other places where the understanding and translation is affected. Just because your favorite translation tells you what to believe and you believe that translation does not make it absolutely true. This very issue only appears to be settled because no one ever brings it up. It truly can be read either way, regardless of what you say or try to force onto the text, and no matter how many dirty names you need to use to try to force your will upon others.

 

[Danoh]

Pathetic liar? That was not my translation I quoted, and what I said is true; and you run into the same problem in Rev 13:15 even though you are probably completely ignorant of that fact, as well as other places where the understanding and translation is affected. Just because your favorite translation tells you what to believe and you believe that translation does not make it absolutely true. This very issue only appears to be settled because no one ever brings it up. It truly can be read either way, regardless of what you say or try to force onto the text, and no matter how many dirty names you need to use to try to force your will upon others.

One would do well to actually invest some time with various cultures.

As with most other cultures; Jews' speech patterns and rhythms, etc., and their resulting nuance, are uniquely their own.

And that impacts what one THINKS one has understood.

Case in point of many - within some cultures, what at times appears had been a question, turns out had been a declarative.

Of course, due to his or her's having already determined what was what going in to a thing, such often ends up lost on the extremist, in his or her ever wooden...literalism.

 

[glorydaz]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Like commentaries, you ignore the Bible when it explains something.

I'm glad you've taken this on, Nick. I'm going to try and put off all my preconceived ideas on this, and see where you're going.

Okay, I'll guess. It sounds like those born of the Spirit don't have a body of flesh. Is this talking about our spiritual body after we are resurrected?

That's probably dumb since why wold Nichodemus know that?

 

[daqq]

One would do well to actually invest some time with various cultures.

As with most other cultures; Jews' speech patterns and rhythms, etc., their and resulting nuance, are uniquely their own.

And that impacts what one THINKS one has understood.

Case in point of many - within some cultures, what at times appears had been a question, turns out had been a declarative.

Of course, due to his or her's having already determined what was what going in to a thing, such often ends up lost on the extremist, in his or her ever wooden...literalism.

There is an undercurrent of truth in this portion of the discussion; and that is that testimony is spirit, even as the Master says of his own testimony and words in John 6:63, ("the words that I speak to you are Spirit, and they are Life"). Those who ignore this "cultural" fact, and this Testimony of Messiah, do so to their own detriment in their understanding because it affects the entire understanding of the scripture. For instance what does Stephen actually mean when he says, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"? (Acts 7:59 KJV)? Do note that he had just given his final testimony before the Sanhedrin.

 

[Danoh]

There is an undercurrent of truth in this portion of the discussion; and that is that testimony is spirit, even as the Master says of his own testimony and words in John 6:63, ("the words that I speak to you are Spirit, and they are Life"). Those who ignore this "cultural" fact, and this Testimony of Messiah, do so to their own detriment in their understanding because it affects the entire understanding of the scripture. For instance what does Stephen actually mean when he says, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"? (Acts 7:59 KJV)? Do note that he had just given his final testimony before the Sanhedrin.

Any so called MAD worth his salt should ever keep in mind that Israel is its' own unique, God given culture.

Just as any so called Messianic needs to keep in mind the same about the Body.

There are both differences and...similarities...

Where one is off on the one or the other; all sorts of reading into a thing ends up the result.

The Book of Acts remains...a testimony to this fact.

As for your above question regarding Acts 7:59...

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

 

[daqq]

Any so called MAD worth his salt should ever keep in mind that Israel is its' own unique, God given culture.

Just as any so called Messianic needs to keep in mind the same about the Body.

There are both differences and...similarities...

Where one is off on the one or the other; all sorts of reading into a thing ends up the result.

The Book of Acts remains...a testimony to this fact.

As for your above question regarding Acts 7:59...

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

I only spoke in terms of what was already said on the previous page.
This will go too far off topic if I respond.

 

[Danoh]

I only spoke in terms of what was already said on the previous page.
This will go too far off topic if I respond.

Lol, isn't that ever a fact - remember how long those threads on that MJ site would end up?

Because many of them knew more than a thing or two.

But in the end; intolerance towards a view other than one's own, ever ends up in the way of some being able to learn from one another.

Just last night I was revisiting some understandings on some things I have thus far viewed differently.

One ought to keep an open mind - not just claim one does.

Anyway, again; good to see you're still alive and kickin